Love Me Harder

February 14, 2019

Love, sex and power are three words that can often be interchangeable. But there's also something inherently special, that can't be replicated with each one. Another component to a healthy relationship: trust. Without it, you're just two, or three, or four people who care about each other and sometimes fuck.

When it comes to a BDSM relationship, trust plays an even more important role. Participants want to test their limits without actually worrying about getting hurt—unless that's what they want. And if you think about it, relationships aren't so different from the power dynamics at play between a domme and a sub. Of course, those roles can change, and even if you weren't in control yesterday, today you can be on top.

In the past, I've looked at Valentine's Day as a cheesy way for Hallmark and Hershey to clean up. Now, I see it as just another day to honor any and all of your relationships—with your partner, with your husband, your best friend, girlfriend, with yourself or your domme.

Photos by Alexandra Kacha

This year, office has decided to celebrate V-Day with friends, partners and members of the kink community, Lua Saturni and Dem0nette. Together, they reminisce about the first time they met, and talk about everything from love languages to BDSM as a learning tool. If we got anything from the conversation and accompanying images by LA photogragher Alexandra Kacha, it's that there's nothing hotter than communication—that, and we got a little turned on.

Peep the conversation and photos, below.

Lua Saturni: Starting with how we met—my memory is a little bit hazy but I know that we briefly went to high school together until I got kicked out for cussing out the principal, because he sucked. But after that—and during that a little bit—we were definitely part of the same party scene for awhile.

Dem0nette: My first memory of you, actually, was at a Starbucks.

Lua Saturni: That’s my first memory of you, too.

Dem0nette: So, that’s a good starting place, because everything before that, we were pretty much headless chickens, or focused on other things. But regarding how we met, it was at a Starbucks through a mutual friend at the time.

Lua Saturni: Acquaintance is the word I will use. He was a colorful character who really enjoyed, I guess, flexing socially, specifically by name-dropping and show-ponying his friends to other friends to somehow lift himself up in quality a little bit. But luckily, not all of the connections I made through him were bad. In fact, most of them I would say were good as a result of his show-ponying all of us quality people around. But we met at Starbucks and talked about I guess whatever teenagers talk about at the time—you know stuff we liked to listen to, ways you enjoyed bonding and relaxing with people, or getting intimate with them—not necessarily physically, but you know, through drugs. We talked about drugs a lot.

Dem0nette: But one of the most striking things about you was, and still to this day, your appearance—I feel like that’s always been a very important quality, as shallow as that sounds. But mostly because, not for me selfishly to be attracted to you by chance or by any means, but more so because a lot of your professions were very focused on how you look. And also—I don’t know if you had your tattoos—but your 'trust issues' tattoo back then.

Lua Saturni: I don’t think I had any tattoos at that point yet. I waited like a person is supposed to, and got my first one when I was 18. God, I remember meeting you and thinking, ‘I fucking hate that dude, but she is really cool.’ I wanted to hang out with you more, for sure.

Dem0nette: That was the first time we physically met. But as far as when we started interacting, it took a much longer time for us to get the wheels turning, I think because our lives were in different places, although we were moving around similar circles. Especially with being involved in different communities and having different hobbies, there was a lot of overlap in the giant umbrella of hobbies, such as fire performance and performance in general, and kink.

Lua Saturni: Our mutual interests definitely overlapped. But it felt like we would always just barely miss each other. We met again, briefly, through work, funny enough. But only by location. And then another time at a kink event. It was like a play party performance. One of the girls dancing was like ‘Hey, want to come do this thing with us?’ and I was like, ‘Yeah sure, that sounds great!’

Dem0nette: I know you were there to perform in a dancing capacity, and I was there to perform on a rope. But my rope top at the time really enjoyed the attention being good at rope brought him. We went in and performed together, and then he fucked off and did other shit because there was a lot of focus on everybody else. But that gave us a good opportunity to finally make out on the floor. I remember you tasting like cigarettes that night.

Lua Saturni: You kissed really nice.

Dem0nette: Thanks, you too! Then we kind of disappeared out of each other’s lives for a hot minute before meeting up through the same party scene and entering a more dedicated, long term relationship with each other. Our lives just finally just crashed together and we decided like, you want to get kinky? Cool! You want to set stuff on fire? Also cool!

Lua Saturni: You want to sit on the couch and do nothing but whippits? Great! But then we started hanging out more intimately, like visiting each other’s homes and such. But that went out for a really long time—almost ten years.

Lua Saturni: This is kind of awkward to ask, but what’s your favorite thing about me?

Dem0nette: My favorite thing about you would be—it’s hard to limit it to just one! But one of them, at least, would be your level of insight and ability to keep your objective and level-headed point of view in situations or [talking about] topics that would be very easy to get really emotionally charged about. And your ability to navigate fine lines very well. I think you’re good at nuance, in general, like how much distance to keep between you and another person based on how little you do or don’t know about them—your ability to feel things out as you go without being too quick to knee-jerk react to something based on someone else’s experience or emotionally-charged account of something.

Another thing I really admire about you and really look up to you for is your ability to stay productive and manage yourself. I feel like especially outside of the context or environment of school or external forces holding people accountable, for example people finding meaning in their jobs or finding comfort in routine and they kind of mindlessly go about the shit that they do, but with your lifestyle and your profession, as well, how closely they blend and how you don’t really have a set schedule—you make your own because literally the world is your oyster, there’s always events going on, there’s always really anyone you choose to connect with. I admire your decision-making skills, because a lot of people might find it overwhelming or immobilizing. You see it with people having too many options all the time—they don’t know which one to choose so they end up not choosing anything. But somehow you make it all work and it’s really cool to watch.

Lua Saturni: I’d have to say my favorite thing about you—or one of my favorite things for sure, because there are several and it’s difficult to narrow people you love and care about into a couple characteristics—but the way that you adapt to things. Like, the things you’ve told me about within your life and your environments and the people around you, it’s very interesting and really fucking cool to just see how over the years you’ve adapted to become more and more your ideal version of yourself, if that makes sense. While coming from environments that might have been almost hostile to your desires to be more independent with your modifications and things like that. A lot of people do not take the time to really sit down and analyze that and they don’t really have the courage to go through with it either, because it’s easier to just go with what you know and what has already been taught to you. So, I think that’s something I really admire about you—that you know who you want to be. You sit down and write about it, and really analyze the steps you want to take to do the things you want to do in your life. Most people turn that into school or finance or marriage, but you take those opportunities and make it something more about what you want to do for yourself.

Dem0nette: Another thing I really like about you is that you’re really nurturing but without being empathic—not that empathy is a bad quality but it can, depending on what type of mix the quality of empathy is thrown into, it can cause a lot of pain or codependence for the factors or parties involved. And I find that you have a really good balance of firm and nurturing. They’re almost like motherly qualities. You’re definitely not motherly, but—

Lua Saturni: I appreciate that because I’ve never considered motherhood an option, either, so that’s refreshing to hear. Not that I think that being me, or being a woman, is based on motherhood, obviously, because it’s never been something I considered or wanted for myself.

Dem0nette: What attracts you to someone? Not speaking purely physically, but that’s also something to consider.

Lua Saturni: For me, what attracts me to somebody is usually—I mean, outside appearance definitely helps—but I found that striving to find someone with an appearance that I feel like matches my aesthetic or that is closer in line with mine, they tend to be assholes, really. So, I don’t do it often—physicality or physical beauty are not really something that I am too keen on looking for. It helps but it’s not integral to my attraction to somebody.

Dem0nette: I feel like it speaks to someone’s similar taste, though. Just not necessarily their personality.

Lua Saturni: At the end of the day, though, similar tastes don’t carry a relationship. And that’s something I definitely had to learn the hard way. For sure. Especially with dudes and men—alternative men are the worst! That’s a generalization, I’m sorry, but it’s kind of true. How about you?

Dem0nette: For me, personally, I’m kind of in the same boat where physical appearance is, of course, the first thing you might notice about someone.

Lua Saturni: Right. That’s what draws you to someone initially.

Dem0nette: Exactly—that’s the attention grabbing aspect of it. You see something shiny from across the room and now you’re fixated on it—what’s it going to do next? But here’s the thing—some people are pretty, but very forgettable. So, I think it sounds real ‘woo-woo,’ but mostly an energy and especially watching their interactions, and how they treat other people and things, is really important to me, and will either increase or decrease my attraction level to them. It’s important that someone I’m interested in gives a fuck about something. There’s got to be some type of—maybe drive is too strong of a word—but ambition, for sure. Intentions are also very important to me. Not just intentions towards me, but intentions towards things they do, which is where the attention comes in. And consideration, as well—it’s very telling of who they are as a person and how they’re going to treat people in the future and how they’re going to treat you. Also, confidence, without any big headedness, or cockiness, or an over-inflated ego is helpful, too.

Lua Saturni: Definitely. Also, confidence without being self-deprecating, as well. People have confidence in things they know they can do well, but they require validation—that’s something that I don’t find attractive. I understand validation and I agree that people should have it, but if you seek it from me too often for something that we both know you’re obviously good at, it seems a little contrived. I can understand everyone’s ego needing stroking every now and then, but your ego is a defense mechanism, so you don’t just crumble and fall into a pit of despair.

Dem0nette: What about consistency?

Lua Saturni: Yeah! And something that definitely attracts me is talent.

Dem0nette: Talent? What about laziness?

Lua Saturni: Laziness, no. Well, it depends on what you’re trying to do with that talent. I don’t feel like talent needs to become financially viable or needs to become monetized or a source of income for you to be good at it.

Dem0nette: Right, because that’s validation seeking too.

Lua Saturni: Yeah, it’s a validation system that you need to survive sometimes, but if you start needing something emotionally from it, then that dependence sucks. But talent really is a big one for me—I would definitely date someone that has more talent than looks. And sex—or sexual chemistry—is definitely important.

Dem0nette: Yeah, same.

Lua Saturni: It could be long distance—the quantity does not override the quality for me.

Dem0nette: Yeah. Another quality that really attracts me to a person would be patience. Not just in the obvious things that require patience, like dealing with someone who’s an asshole, but patience in being at ease and confident in that you’ll get to where you’re going, and you know where that is. Confidence in personal growth and taking your time.

Lua Saturni: That’s a much better way of putting what I was saying that I really love about you. I really, really admire your confidence in your personal and self-growth. I guess one of the easiest examples of this confidence and patience I’m talking about is with sex in general. Sometime you’ll have people who are really impatient to put it in. Like, ‘Are you gonna cum yet?’ Calm down!

Dem0nette: And not if you’re going to ask!

Lua Saturni: Yeah, now I’m thinking about something different and now I’m frustrated.

Dem0nette: And now there’s pressure—just let it happen naturally.

Lua Saturni: Okay, so let’s talk likes and dislikes within the confines of BDSM. I don’t like people to think they are incapable of learning from other people. Maybe you didn’t necessarily have the outcome you expected with a person, but I feel that’s still a learning opportunity. But some people don’t see it that way. And I don’t think that’s a very good quality within BDSM. What about you?

Dem0nette: What I like are the different aspects of myself I explore in BDSM, and I find that the labels are more so a tool for you to explore different roles for yourself. That’s not to say I don’t believe someone is truly a domme, or truly a sub—I truly believe those people exist or maybe they’re comfortable there—but I enjoy pushing myself a little bit more. So, I like BDSM as a way for me to do that in a safe and preferably sane and consensual way. Even as a sub I like the freedom to explore new things and my complete control, because all you have to do in an ideal situation is say ‘no’ to opt out. Know your safe word and set up all the checks-and-balances for yourself, to know how it’s working out for you. But it’s a testament to the trust that exists between myself and whoever happens to be topping me to be a receptacle for experience. It gives me an opportunity to still be in process.

I find that I treat subbing especially, very similarly to mediation—I feel like a conduit of sorts. And it’s a good opportunity to practice communication skills, depending on what you’re bottoming for, especially. At the same time, being lazy because you’re just experiencing, depending on what type of scene it is—I very much enjoy originality and creativity from tops.

Lua Saturni: There’s a lot of responsibility there.

Dem0nette: Yeah, there’s lots of responsibility in that, and we’ve seen a lot of things. There’s not a whole lot that’s like ‘Oh, that’s new!’ So, when somebody finally does pull out something that’s new, it’s usually pretty good—or really terrible. But that doesn’t happen to me very much. I always like seeing these reframed in a new perspective or context for myself. But domming for sure requires more responsibility. How do you feel about high protocol?

Lua Saturni: I enjoy it within the confines of the scene itself, or at an event. A lot of people probably engage in it privately, but I enjoy using it to get off in social situations.

Dem0nette: I don’t have too much personal experience but I would consider it a fantasy of mine to explore more high-protocol dinner parties. Especially as a way to learn etiquette. Again, you see I’m turning it into a learning opportunity of sorts. Learning is boring through a textbook, so let me make it physical and fun. For me, BDSM becomes very autodidactic, which is nice and the easiest way to learn stuff—through yourself and your experiences, and through the experiences of the people you love and trust around you.

Another like of mine is that BDSM is a release of sorts—it gives you a reason to cry, for example. You have your buttons pushed just the right way during a humiliation scene, or you are hit so hard you can’t handle it. It’s the right combination of things, and a good release, and a great way to get to know somebody. As far as dislikes go, especially when you’re getting to know somebody through BDSM, the parts of you they see during a scene, while to you might be exclusively your version of yourself in that scene, they may misconstrue it for something else. And it may carry on into more places in your life. But that depends on all parties to communicate and ask the right questions without making assumptions.

Lua Saturni: I feel like that’s also on the other person’s shoulders to compartmentalize that better.

Dem0nette: But what happens in a scene often, unless you’re in a 24/7 dynamic which I don’t engage in and I know you don’t either, it can muddy the waters and cause issues. That’s been my experience, anyway

Lua Saturni: I agree, I’m definitely too multifaceted to be stuck in one position or dynamic all the time. What do you not like about BDSM? I don’t like how much it’s being co-opted into mainstream fashion right now. But that’s more of a mild annoyance—tourists, I guess. But more dysfunctional tourists.

Dem0nette: As somebody who knows a little bit about rope, being on a good portion of the bondage side of it, elastic lingerie in the bondage-strappy styles that’s really popular right now, it’s not going to look like the photos all the time. The tension is really tight, and if it’s off, it’s going to slip wherever the fuck it wants to slip on the body. And you need space to keep those good, so it’s more partial to people of privileged stance. So, there are really a lot of socioeconomic dynamics that I also attach to my issues with modern, shitty, elastic lingerie.

Lua Saturni: How do you feel about more latex being used in mainstream fashion?

Dem0nette: Well, if you look at how fashion in general is being treated, nothing is made to last more than a year over season. Everything is made in shitty quality and the seams are barely there, under the pretense that it’s boho-hippy-dippy. Just look at Free People. Shit’s falling apart off the racks and yet people pay a lot of money for it because it’s in a mall and that’s the aesthetic.

Lua Saturni: So, talking about power dynamics in everyday relationships and power dynamics in BDSM relationships—there’s definitely a mutual respect and trust that has to cross all of those borders for them to work. But the power dynamics in a relationship depends on if you live with the person or people. I’ve been in relationships with people that the BDSM dynamic overshadowed the vanilla relationship and everyday life aspects of it. I found that to be tedious because I like a partner or a domme, not a parent or a probation officer. It’s important to distinguish between the two and negotiate terms beforehand if that’s what you’re seeking to engage in. Writing things down helps, but I don’t think contracts are necessary, unless that’s part of your bureaucratic kink. Writing helps for accountability.

Dem0nette: I will wholeheartedly confess I prefer not having to separate or compartmentalize too much, in regards to romantic relations or people I’m trusting enough to practice BDSM with. Often there’s a very large overlap. It think it’s a luxury to be able to show all of your facets to someone you like or love, because that gives them a more holistic understanding of you as a person. I think that’s beneficial to any dynamic—understanding and acceptance. I like to really solidify and base all of mine on a healthy foundation of trust and balance between the two dichotomies that are top and bottom, or domme and sub. I think those are two complete opposites, which is why I don’t identify too strongly with any one label—my preference is to be more fluid and adaptable.

Lua Saturni: Personally, I do need BDSM to be at least somewhat of an aspect of my relationship. Do you feel that way? Would you be happy with a partner that was entirely vanilla?

Dem0nette: I guess I would be happy. I wouldn’t impose that need on them, but I would find a platonic play partner or another partner that wants to be kinky instead.

Lua Saturni: That’s one of the cool things about being kinky in BDSM—in having vanilla partners I’ve been met with a lot of understanding for having to go outside of the relationship.

Dem0nette: Sex doesn’t always have to be involved.

Lua Saturni: Yeah, it can be something that you can seek platonically, even if you’re getting off, you’re not really having sex.

Dem0nette: Yeah, it’s a release. As far as needing BDSM, that depends on my appetite in the moment. But the one thing I am is primal. You’ve got your paws, your hands, your claws, your teeth—make use of your body.

Lua Saturni: What about love languages? For people not familiar with the concept, the idea of love language is how you show your affection and care for somebody, and it’s not always physical. You introduced me to the idea of alternative love languages beyond touch and gift-giving. It made me realize one of my love languages is acts of service, like domestic service or food.

Dem0nette: What’s your preferred love language to receive?

Lua Saturni: I’m getting more and more enamored with receiving physical and public displays of affection, because that was not a thing in my life for a really long time. Also speaking in words—communication. 24/7 communication is ridiculous to expect from someone. Also, sharing of knowledge and interest, like you showing me a book or movie you like.

Dem0nette: Having been polyamorous for my entire dating career, something I just realized in the past five years is people have different needs, which seems like a no-brainer but put into practice it’s very different. I’ve had to be flexible in that aspect of my life, so my preference of love languages changes—your needs as a human just changes naturally over time. But currently, my preferred giving and receiving love language would be spending quality time.

Lua Saturni: I think your capacity to do that is very mercurial in nature, malleable and subject to change, which is really cool, and not something I’ve seen any one else handle with as little fall back.

Dem0nette: A lot of times people think getting to know someone, self included, is a one-and-done situation, but it’s not. I think we’re very lucky to be able to communicate like we do—it really sucks to try and communicate when you’re frustrated and don’t have the right words. You also don’t want that unhealthy back and forth of the extremes, where you’re angry in the heat of the moment and sweep it all under the rug later. I don’t think that’s ever sustainable. But yeah, that’s my take on love languages—I think it’s a really cool concept. It’s like taking a quiz online to see what mythical creature you are.

Lua Saturni: To me, the introduction of love languages was revolutionary with how I interact with people and how they interact with me. I think the lightest bit of that could really change some people’s approaches and relationships.

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Spring Pleasure with Obii

Covered in super soft and squishy silicone, Obii sucks, pulses, and vibrates on you, and will give you an entirely new and improved orgasm.

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30 Weeks Pregnant

Merging her young self as an Iowa native and her current self as a pregnant New York mama, Redman portrays herself among horses and animals she grew up around and feels extremely close to. However, to maintain her city-ness, she rocks big earrings, a slip dress, and a cool, confident demeanor.

Danielle embodies sensuality, womanhood, and motherhood all at once. As a model, her artistic vision is very much so informed by that experience, while her photographic eye is influenced by her years modeling.

Check out our conversation below.

What inspired you to create this series?

I mean, I grew up with horses, and I’ve been riding since I was 5. I always connect really well with horses, I love horses. One day, I just had this visualization of, like, you know, I’m really pregnant… and me, on a horse, in the water, like I don’t know why, in a pink dress. It all just like… there it was. I had to get it out of my head, so I had to shoot it until it… you know what I’m saying? And I’m a farm girl, country, but also very New York, ‘cause I’ve been here for, like, 18 years. So kind of the meshing of the two—the merge. Who I am now to who I was as a little girl.

How did you mesh those two sides of you in these images?

With the nails, with the big hat… I’m from Iowa, and, you know, you don’t do anything too crazy. So like, just kinda keeping to my true self, so like, a crop top—people don’t really wear it, it’s more conservative, so I was a little bit more edgy in that sense.

What feeling does it evoke to you as the creator, and what feeling do you think they might evoke in the viewer?

I’m really critical of myself in every way possible. I see a photo I’ve taken, or that I’m in, or a photo that I’ve created, and in every aspect I always look deeper and reevaluate everything. So it took me a while to digest everything. But they are, I think, really beautiful. Super serene, peaceful, majestic… you know? Also I think it really shows a woman and womanhood. The transformation; this is my first time being a mother, so I’m going through this whole transformation, and I think it really shows that.

That’s beautiful.

And then, I guess it’s up to the viewer how they see it. Everyone has their own input, point of view, how they read it. I think that’s the beautiful thing about art and everything. You put something out there, and however someone sees it, it’s like, Oh wow, I didn’t see it that way, but that’s really cool!

How were you trying to present yourself as the model, and as a photographer, did that affect how it turned out?

Yeah, I guess I’m always, like, critiquing. You know? But I think I’ve been doing both for so long, that I’m used to playing both roles. And I think both roles help me in both positions.

Do you think one informs the other more? Does being a photographer inform your modeling more or vice versa? Or is it equal?

I haven’t really thought about it, but being a model-turned-photographer, you definitely have more of an insight on how you wanna be looked at, spoken to, treated like a human rather than just an object, so I definitely have that point of view. But I think… hmm… that’s a really good question. I think it’s pretty equal. So far, anyways, it definitely feels equal because they definitely both help each other.

They kind of flow into one another?

Yeah, and I’ve learned a lot from being both—from the angles, to the poses...

Yeah, I could see that. How long have you been modeling?

I’ve always loved images, I always thought it was really powerful. Since I was little, I had a matching dress with my doll, and I was like, Mom, take my photo! I always had her taking my photo, like with my dog, or with whatever. I think kids, I don’t know why we love that. How you take it from there is how you take it from there. I’ve gone all over the world, and kids are always intrigued, like, Take my photo! Now let me see it! I think it’s a natural thing. But I’ve been officially modeling since I was 14… A really long time.

That’s young! So when did you move into photography?

I mean, same thing, I’ve always played with it. I’ve always been taking photos, I love imagery, I’m always taking photos of stuff. But it’s evolved a lot. Like, I was looking back at photos from ten years ago and I was like, What was I taking a photo of? That’s horrible! You know? But I think once you start looking at your work and critiquing it, you can really learn and grow faster. And that’s a really important role that I never was doing in the work.

What has pregnancy been like during the pandemic?

Wild. Super wild. I’m having a homebirth, so my midwives are really into keeping your distance, and I’m also really into keeping my distance. It might just be a fluke thing, it might be super serious; we really don’t know what this whole thing is, and, like, Mama Bear definitely came out, like Grrr, I’m super protective of this little child inside me. So, it’s been really lonely. There’s definitely been lonely moments, you know, my family’s back in Iowa, so I don’t get to share that with them at all. Even friends, they don’t get to touch the belly or see the growth, so it gets kinda sad. My body hurts so I was like, you know, I really want a massage, but you can’t do basic things like that. You know, now you can, but you couldn’t do basic things like that for the longest time. Luckily, I can get pedicures now, and it’s nice ‘cause I can’t really touch my toes!

Perfect!

It’s so wild! It’s such a funny thing! But it’s also been a really big blessing, ‘cause I get to just focus on this baby, and it brings me a lot of joy. So every time there are hardships happening in the world or in my life, I can always focus on this little happy… Like, the baby will move, and I’m like, oh yeah, that’s my happiness.

That’s so sweet! Is there anything else you wanna say about "30 Weeks Pregnant"?

I always think it’s really fun to have an idea, create it, dream up something, and then bring it to life. Making it come to life is really satisfying.

Did it come out just how you hoped, or did your vision change along the way?

I really love the team that I chose. The photographer, she’s super creative, and I love her vision. So I really put it in her hands. We kinda came together, like, I had this idea, and then she came forward with a bunch of ideas as well, so it was really nice collaborating. The nail girl, she was really great as well to bring in a different type of art. It was slightly different than what I thought, but not really. It was just more majestic, kind of, serene, movie style. It looks more like a movie.

How did the collaboration go? Why did you bring this specific photographer on and how did she take your vision and execute it?

Well the photographer, I’ve known her for a while, and I’ve loved her work; she does video as well, and it’s really beautiful. Super feminine and soft and deep. There’s a lot more depth to it rather than just a beautiful image, so I knew it was gonna be more powerful than just that. She’s super talented and comes with a lot of experience. So bringing her on was easy, and when I told her about it, she was like, Oh my God, I’d be so honored, please, yes! She was super excited to be part of this moment and share this moment. She definitely brought a lot to the table.

Where were the photos taken?

It’s, like, two hours upstate, it’s called Amenia, New York. I went up there before and I’d been talking to the lady for a while, and I rode there once. Then, literally, like, I had the idea, and right after she posted a photo, like, that’s where Beyonce used to ride horses! I was like, I thought it was my secret! She stole my secret!

Are you excited to one day show your baby these photos?

Definitely! ‘Cause that was the first horse ride my baby had! You know? It was kinda beautiful, ‘cause, have you rode before?

Yeah, I have.

So, you know how… it’s meditative. It’s really peaceful. You kinda just go on this little journey. Also, it was stormy that day, like really stormy, and there was this energy in the air, and the horses really feel that. So there was excitement but also calmness. I’m also really calm on horses, so it was really cool to let the baby feel the energy through me. The baby didn’t move at all! I was like, You’re so enjoying this! I love it.

I love that, that’s so cute. I’m excited for you. Thank you so much!

Thank you!!

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POV: Mike Krim's Uncomfortable Lens

Krim is a prolific man of his craft who is multitasking on a daily basis. He curates shows across the world and designs books, magazines, and clothing while simultaneously utilizing his cameras like an extension of his body as he photographs the world that creates the language of his captured images. He is a man with no boundaries and no fear when it comes to subject matter. There’s no discrimination between a heroin addict with a needle in his neck in LA’s Skid Row to the women and men across the board who trust his artistic style and vision, as it is a blessing at this point to show up in one of Krim’s photographs.

There is a performance taking place when Krim is present. He captures the absurd truths of life as the images possess a beautiful chaos that is being simplified and stripped down to produce a truth that is unseen.

What has Mike Krim been up to so far in 2020, and how is the quarantine going in LA?

I was on a roll. I did a show in Tokyo with Agnès B, then another in Mexico City and released a satin varsity jacket with Majestic Japan. Then a month later, we’re on lockdown. Quarantine has been interesting to say the least… all the down time has led to a lot of self-reflection, allowing me to reprioritize shit. I’ve been really productive. I released two new zines and a shirt this month, and projects that have been on hold are now ready to go when this is all over with. My girl is stuck in Canada. I’ve had to get creative with that… doing little video dates and all that cute stuff.

As a photographer and curator, how important do you feel it is to separate yourself from your subjects?

As a photographer, shooting in the street, I try to have zero connection to the subject other than being fully present in that moment with them. It’s mildly psychopathic but I have to compartmentalize as much as possible. I see a lot of wild shit and I can’t let the emotionality overflow into my personal life. I’ll leave the feelings for the viewers looking at the photos. Curating shows and projects is 100% the opposite. I’m hands-on and ears open from the start. It’s my job to listen to everyone’s wants and needs. The artists, models, and the rest of these characters I collaborate with can get really emotional when it comes down to their work. I have to put my foot down and take the reins and make sure everything is pulled together when it comes time to hang the show and open it up for the public. Otherwise, people run a-muck and make it look like some raggedy freshman art school show. Although, that has kind of been on trend, so maybe I have to rethink my approach, haha.

Can you give me a list of subject matter that you’ve captured images of?

Street, sex workers, artists, actors, graffiti kids, nature, parties, anyone and anything controversial that grabs my attention, but since the ‘Rona hit I have been playing with nature and trying to turn all the cacti on my roof into these wild sexual jump offs. I was joking a few years back that I noticed a lot of controversial photographers started shooting cactus as like “the end of the road” kinda shit like when a New York downtown artist starts to DJ… now I’m thinking about it and I really appreciate the cactus and the DJ.

Can you explain what drives you or places you in these settings and in the presence of these individuals?

Since I was young, I never wanted to be at my house. I always wanted to explore and interact with people from different walks of life. I guess it’s the curious, wide-eyed kid in me that’s always searching for something new. I relate and feel comfortable in fucked up scenarios. I’m attracted to controversy; it has a strong pull for me. I have no problem interacting with someone who is severely mentally ill or walking up to someone that most would find intimidating. I know the slang to use to break the ice and shoot the shit with them. I’m really good at reading people and situations. With the women I shoot, most of my girlfriends and female friends are sex workers of some sort. I have a huge respect for them and all women and all the insanity that comes with it. It’s a full-time spicy sitcom around here. I will only work with real ones though. None of that pretend “let’s play dress up” gimmick for Instagram. Being out late in the city, the only girls out are the naughty ones and we all have a mutual understanding of what time it is when its go time. So, if it’s hitting the club, track or TJ Mexico for the night or any city I land in, the first thing I do is start plotting content. Shit can get complicated though… in Tokyo my boy matched with a fly lady boy on Tinder and passed her off to me. The whole time I’m trying to set up the shoot and she is trying to smash. I’m sitting there like damn baby girl, why it got to be like this? It’s 2020.

I have no problem interacting with someone who is severely mentally ill or walking up to someone that most would find intimidating.

Do you possess a sense of responsibility and respect for your subject?

I absolutely do. I make sure the environment is professional, that the subject is comfortable and treated with the upmost respect. The climate these days can have you canceled mad quick so it’s important that there’s a lot of communication and clear boundaries. I have a little sister and a whole squad of females and it’s unfortunate when you hear shit going down with certain people, brands, etc. I’m not sure why they don’t think harder about how they set shit up. Hiring their favorite IG girl and then inviting 20 homies to stare at her… why would that be comfortable for her? The street stuff is more complicated because its always about respect but it’s also not my responsibility to care… I’m a fly on the wall in those settings.

To my understanding all humans deserve to feel like they’re indispensable. Are there times when you feel this task has been accomplished with your subject?

Yeah, facts. Without the subjects, there’s no me and we would not be having this conversation. Many of the people I shoot I’m able to contact and send them a print or get them a zine. It’s all love. They are forever immortalized in my little world… it goes a long way to do stuff like that especially when you are profiting off of it.

I respect you and think you have many disciplined gifts as an artist. Are you cool with admitting you want to be a GREAT artist and someone who contributes on a much bigger scale in addition to what has already been accomplished?

Look, I’m not even sure I’m even that good. Many people I admire from the past and present that are technically “better” make work that motivates me to be better. I don’t think you need to be the best to be considered great. You need to have the drive and discipline and not wait around thinking people owe you anything. I make my own books, my own shows, and I’m not scared to put myself on a pedestal to be judged. That’s a huge advantage over others because people spend more time worrying what others think and who’s ass they have to kiss.

What are your thoughts on the abundance of filters and body altering on social media?

I’m not into it all… Sure everyone edits their pics on photoshop, but you shouldn’t be like remodeling your whole body and face for validation. Everyone looks exactly the same now and it’s just sad… Team Flaw all the way.

Your work is very lifestyle oriented, are you prepared to take your craft to the next level and photograph for major brands?

If the opportunity presents itself, I would love to bring my aesthetic to the fashion game... I always look at old fashion photos and try and bring that element into the nitty-gritty. It would be a privilege.

Are you interested in video and film as a tool for your practice?

I have been stacking footage for a minute and would love to chop it up with an editor… I made one short already and it made Russian news. If that’s a sign of things to come, I’m ready to get busy with the right team…

I see a lot of wild shit, and I can’t let the emotionality overflow into my personal life.

What is your vision for Paperworks in the future?

Well prior to the world meltdown, we were set up to do a series of global art shows throughout 2020 with various artists in some really obscure places. The idea was to remove and change the narrative of what’s typically being done in the art world. Kinda like a big gypsy caravan that doesn’t give a fuck. I would like to pick up where we left off as soon as the world opens back up. I think the brand’s strongest points are the activations and shows we put on. The clothing is also a whole new extension of the brand. We will be doing seasonal drops and you can find us in some of the world’s most desirable stores. Also, I can’t forget about expanding with more artist’s zines and printed matter.

What does the future hold for Mike Krim?

More shows, more content, more printed projects, a white picket fence, a tangerine tree in the yard.