‘CIÓN, MAMI – An Editorial Escape to the Heavens

March 11, 2022

Heels, Hair, High Fashion– ‘CIÓN, MAMI, is all that and more. The fashion film, produced by Angelito Collective and written and directed by Miss Kam, depicts and celebrates trans networks.

The three celestial stars Sinn Chhin, Demíyah Vanessa Perez, and Kam herself find their path to harmony through a city of chaos. Sprint-stumble-strutting down 125th street Miss Kam and Sinn Chinn rush to find refuge, heightening their perceptions of everyday life as trans-queer people of color.

Text by Kenna McCafferty
Interview by Connor Garel
Images by Kai Baynes
Art Direction by Angel De Michael
Hair by John Novotny
Nail Art by Miss Kam
Makeup by Kauv Onzah
BTS by Sage Dolan-Sadrino
Voiceover by Demíyah Pérez
Cinematography by Ryan Chun
Assitant Camera by Ellis Hubshmann
Color Grade by Sal Redpath
Music by Suffy Baala
Sound Design & Engineering by Skyler Hawkins
Associate Produced by Syro
Costume Design by Sinn Chhin
Wardrobe styling by Ranxelle Soria
Executive Produced by BTFA Collective
Video Edit by Miss Kam & Nine Media Source
Production Coordination by Alfonso Estrada & Demíyah Pérez
Production Assist by Zaire Gholston, Ramie Ahmed, Ella Dior
Models: Sinn Chhin, Miss Kam, Demíyah Pérez
Cast: Iman Hill, Yasha Lelonek, Angel De Michael, Tivali Thomas, N'yomi Stewart, Jerian Royal, Elusyv, Ayva Reed

The film embodies oasis, with each aspect driven by the ingenuity of trans creatives. In partnership with SYRO, a queer trans brand lead by Shaobo Han and Henry Bae and executive produced by the Black Trans Femmes in the Arts Collective founded by Jordyn Jay, the editorial captures the essence of trans expression and communion.

Ending on a roof as the sun sets and turns the sweat of the day to glitter, the Angelito Dolls assemble. Exchanging kisses (one on each cheek) and moments of intimacy and joy, the sun sets on a hectic city, and the night sky embraces the Angels enraptured in a piece of heaven.

CONNOR GAREL — I think the best place for us to start is at the beginning, with the genesis of the film. How did the idea come together? And when did the form it might take become clear?

KAM KORDERZ — I remember it was early last year, and Angel had reached out to me about this project they were talking with Syro about. It was a loose concept for a fashion video, but not necessarily a film yet. It was based on this one episode of Sex and the City [S3, E18] that was basically focusing on trans women being gentrified out of their neighborhoods in New York City. From there it got bigger and more expansive. I was only supposed to model in it, but then I was like, I really want to direct this and make something from our points of view as trans women and as dolls. And it blew up into this whole production of a film. That’s when we reached out to BTFA (Black Trans Femme in the Arts) and got funding, and I started writing it as a screenplay instead of just a video. The relationship that we were building with each other over the last year is kind of what informed this, as well as this idea of taking up space anywhere we want in New York City without feeling limited by what neighborhood we’re in or who might be around.

ANGEL ANDRES — Initially I wanted to highlight what a New York City summer feels like, especially when you’re on a rooftop. And that led me to think about the Sex and the City episode, where at the end it’s all of the girls on a roof with the trans women, coming together after the conflict they had earlier in the episode [when Samantha throws a bucket of water at them]. We started to just throw ideas around, and Jordan [Kam] had written something that was based on some of the experiences we were all having throughout the summer. We really wanted to highlight that connectivity and that family feeling, how we would often come to each other’s houses and eat together and just spend time in community with each other. I think about how music is often written to describe a moment or a feeling, and I feel like this film is similar to that. It’s highlighting a feeling or moment in time for us. It’s a description of how we come together and empower each other.

CG — This is a fashion film, first and foremost, and so fashion and self-presentation are really important elements for its visual language. There’s nothing casual or understated about the hair, or the makeup, or the nails, or the clothes anyone’s wearing. Everything has this otherworldly tone. Demi’s top isn’t even a top—it’s hair improvised into a “garment.” How did you figure out the style direction?

AA — We knew the element of fantasy was really important, so I spent a lot of time looking at images that had larger-than-life moments. We spent a lot of time looking at that Nicki Minaj commercial for the Pink Friday fragrance, where she’s a giant in New York City. We were trying to figure out ways we could make this larger-than-life without necessarily having to be scaled bigger in a room. So you have Demi with the hair around her chest, and that’s an element of fantasy. You have Jordan wearing silhouettes that distort her natural figure, and it’s the same for Sinn’s look. It’s a wardrobe that takes up space in a room. So I was looking at images and then telling Sinn, like, this is what I’m thinking.

SINN CHHIN — We always say that we’re not from this world, and that we’ve just been placed on Earth to take up space and do what we came here to do. And while looking at the film, I realized we do actually mimic a few creatures. Demi with her wave top situation and that skirt is giving jellyfish-y. My look is very prehistoric, and it’s giving dinosaur. It’s like we’ve already been in this space, but we’re going to come back and bring new shit to the table. When I was making the clothes, I was trying to embody us in a piece of clothing. And I think that’s what made everyone feel the most powerful.

DEMIYAH PÉREZ — Sinn literally, with her hands, sewed everything we wore. So for my own curiosity I just want to hear her reflect on that process.

SC — For my look, I was working very close with Ranxelle Soria [Roxy], who also helped style the video, and I knew that I wanted my look to be a dinosaur that was kind of shedding its skin. It’s like we crash landed here and we have to shed our skin to be exposed to the atmosphere. So I had Roxy do this thing they call second skin, which is a method of layering pantyhose. And then with Jordan’s look, your eye doesn’t really know where to go. You’re fascinated by the shape. It keeps the eye dancing. And with Demi, as a person she has this Mother Nature kind of thing to her, so the hair makes everything more organic. It’s like her hair knows that her body needs to be covered for protection. It’s like that Kelela video for Blue Light, where her hair is growing around her body. That’s the direction we went into.

CG — Why is style important to each of you? What does style help you to achieve?

DP — In the period of time that we were developing this, and experiencing sisterhood with each other, we were spending a lot of time in each other’s spaces, sharing clothes.

SC — Girl, we still sharing clothes!

DP — And so our style in the way is like our energies colliding. Whenever each of us wears something, we all bring a life to it, and we’re able to make it look like something brand new. Sharing clothes is like sharing resources, and that’s the basis of all the values that we have of equity and alignment and harmony as a group.

AA — We don’t let the clothes wear us. We put them on and embody a character. I was telling the girls for the film, “Y’all are all celestials from different universes and you’re coming together to gather after many years, and y’all are preparing for this fabulous dinner.” And so that’s why they were all wearing high, tall hair, to shape the face and feel like a crown.

KK — I looked at Demi’s character as the maven and the matriarch of our household in a sense, the one that grounded us, and that’s why it was really important to have her voice carry us through the film. And then Sinn and I bring certain elements that complete the household. But as far as my personal style and fashion and beauty, that’s been what has transformed me and what’s been the vehicle into my transition. And I think art is the best way to express that.

CG — I want to talk about the cinematography for a moment, which is sort of dreamy and magical and atmospheric. Angel, you mentioned this otherworldliness as an element you wanted to bring into the film. And there’s a softness, too—an intimacy. Could you speak a little bit more to the creative and art direction of the film and what you were hoping to do with it?

AA — A lot of the inspiration for our initial ideas actually came from some drawings that Jordan had made. That’s where we came up with the royal fantasy vibes. But the entire walkthrough of the film is deeply connected to our experiences today, spending time together, sharing dinners, being in community. I think it’s really beautiful how we were able to create a fantasy out of something that’s really real to us.

KK — Those drawings that I did formed one of the initial concepts we had for the film, which was this extremely experimental, hyperreal thing that was even more fantasy than it is now. But through our process talking with one another we arrived at something that felt more grounded in how we live but that was still fantastical. My style as a director and cinematographer has always been inspired by Wong Kar-wai films, where it’s very dreamlike and centered in these big cities. And then when you see the city in person, it almost doesn’t feel real. I also wanted to bring into the film certain elements that we share in our intimacy together, like how it’s always a double cheek kiss when we greet. And when we’re around each other, there are sounds you hear: our nails clacking, our heels kitting the floor, the sound of a kiss on both cheeks. There’s so much sensory to the way we interact that’s uniquely us, and I think it narrates our sisterhood in a way that words can’t. So I really wanted to hone in on those moments with the wide angle lenses and create that fantasy with things feeling larger than life, but also something that people still find is familiar.

CG — I love that you talk about Wong Kar-wai, because one of the central themes in his work is this sort of urban loneliness, these love-sick characters drifting about in cities they feel alienated by. But what I love about this film that you made is that we don’t feel that loneliness at all, because it’s invested in togetherness and in community. And it’s interesting, because the video is filmed in Harlem, which was a black cultural mecca in the 1920s and 30s—a period referred to as the Harlem Renaissance, when there was an artistic rebirth. Some of you live there, or have lived there in the past. Can you talk about the significance of Harlem to the film?

KK — I think Angel, as a native New Yorker, you should talk about this first…

AA — Harlem was deeply connected to our ideation process, because we were looking at the way we move through space and what that might make other people feel. We were considering recreating all the chatter we overhear when we go out, because we can’t help but to disrupt a room when we walk around. One thing that always happens is the staring. But we decided that that isn’t important to us. It’s not what makes us. When we wake up in the morning, we choose ourselves, and the people who stare and talk don’t know who they are, so they can’t choose themselves. We ended up in a mode that really empowers and hopefully inspires other people to fully embody themselves.

KK — For me, not being someone from New York City, the Harlem Renaissance and the neighborhood of Harlem have always been very influential. I’ve worked in ballroom spaces and jazz spaces and a lot of places uptown that are still to this day very evocative of the culture, especially of trans and queer people. Where we shot, in Angel’s neighborhood, is such an interesting intersection, because Central Park is right there. We see Sinn in Central Park in the film, which is a big symbol of gentrification and the whiteness in New York City. But you go a little bit north, right there to that corner we filmed at, and it’s this center of blackness and Latin American people. So it’s a juxtaposition on one street corner that’s representative of the space we take up constantly in life.

CG — When you were thinking through the film's narrative and the story you wanted to tell, what was the first scene that came to you?

AA — I think it was the liquor store. We went from thinking about possibly designing an entire space where they would be huge to figuring out how we could make it fantasy without the excessiveness or the craziness of having to do all that. Like, how do we simplify? We thought about possibly going into the liquor store with the clicking of the nails and Jordan’s outfit possibly moving through the room and touching the bottles. That was really exciting for me. That was the first time I started to see everything unfold. Because then, we thought about Sinn and Srey Sral at the park…

SC — I remember them talking about having Srey in it, and then I created an outfit where my corset lacing was part of her leash, and I think, for me, that was when I was like, “Okay, I’ve never felt more like myself.” And then seeing us all together, the idea of us walking onto the roof—it reminds me of us getting into an Uber to go to Nowadays, like, “Oh, bitch, we late!” It feels like a vlog. When we were writing everything out and had a straight story to tell, we realized this is practically what we do every day.

CG — I want to talk about sisterhood, because there’s this felt and resonant warmth to the film that I think is a testament to your bonds. The joy feels genuine, not acted. Can you maybe talk about friendship and sisterhood and the role that plays in the film and your lives?

KK — I feel like we really came together in a work environment. The first time I met all of them was through the first film that we worked on together, Toxic. It became an organic sisterhood that has informed a lot of my own identity in the last year, and it’s answered a lot of questions and framed things in a different way. Being here, I’m so far from my biological family. They’re all in California or various other parts of the country. And I’ve moved around my whole life. So I’ve never been in a community, or or had a big family that was around me. So to have this was very gratifying, and the film came out of it. It was this stream of consciousness thing that never really ended until now that we’re done with the film, because we just kept pouring what we were experiencing into the film and it had its own life.

AA — I think what brought us together was our creativity, but what holds us together is our connectivity. We hold each other accountable, and we choose to be patient with each other, which is something a lot of us didn’t have growing up. But we recognize that the power we hold in our unity is something we want to harness and protect. So I’m grateful to have them on my team, not only to write history but to always empower me and encourage me to be a better person.

DP — I think our sisterhood really informed a lot of my healing. I learn so much about myself by having me reflected back in the girls all the time, and our sisterhood gave me access to parts of myself that I’ve looked over or resisted. It’s a space of love and safety. And if you’re lucky enough in a lifetime to come into your tribe and hold space for each other, that’s really special. We’ve fought for so many years to get to a place of being free, and all of our moments together are a celebration of that triumph and of getting to the point where we get to choose how we want to live. I moved around a lot as a child, and I was always adapting. I was never grounded in one space. So to have a strong group of friends helping each other and growing together, waking up determined to uplift each other—I think it’s really beautiful.

CG — Can I ask about the music?

KK — I wish I would’ve asked Skyler [Hawkins] to participate in this, because the way they’re inclined with music is so interesting, and the references that they have and the way they take in information and can create something that you wouldn’t expect is so wild. We’ve been best friends since I was a teenager, but we’ve been working together and they’ve been scoring films I’ve done for years now. We all recognized their ability to produce something that would match the tone of the film, and that spoke to the community that we’ve built and everyone’s desire to help us come closer to fulfilling whatever it is we’re creating. So as far as the structure of the music, I originally said I didn’t want to [mimic] ballroom. I didn’t want this to feel like a cookie-cutter thing, where we’re trans and we’re walking to a beat for runway. I initially said I wanted this to be nothing but trans women rappers. And then it took on a life of its own. We’ve spent a lot of time in the rave scene, and in spaces where they play house music, or where there’s EDM, and all these sounds that are very cinematic. So we had Suffy Baala make a really cool mix that Skyler then engineered into a score. I just wanted each of us to have our own sounds in our introductions into the film. And I wanted the climax, where we’re in community, to feel very sensory, and that lends itself so well to Demi’s voice.

CG — Demi, we hear your voice in the beginning of the film and at the end. At one point, you say “We can’t be destroyed” and I’ve been thinking about it since I watched the film the first time. Can you talk about what this narration offers and why it was important to include it?

DP — For the process of writing the narration, I started writing down what this film reflected for me. The “we can’t be destroyed” was an insert from the narration Jordan wrote in the first draft of the script. I began combining my voice which offered a matriarch soft tone alongside the empowered boldness of Jordan’s tone. I sat in silence and wrote various drafts of the final voiceover, then I recorded through my phone and Skyler was able to blend it in with the soundscape of the final cut.

KK — My process was very similar to Demi’s. I began writing out things that were coming to my head, kind of just personifying this idea of an endangered species and making it into a bold, dramatic, metaphorical way to describe these daily interactions and struggles of transess, as well as our own individuality. I knew immediately when I wrote it that I wanted it to be Demi’s voice because from the very first time I met Demi, her voice has just been a lullaby. It’s always so nurturing and she has this melodic safe tone to her speaking voice that informed her characterization in the film.

DP — Also reflecting back in the process, the first reference I had was Janet Mock’s voiceover in Blood Orange’s track Family. I remember hearing that track for the first time and feeling empowered by hearing a mature and enlightened trans woman speaking to me and consoling me. I felt like she was on the phone talking to me. So when I did the voiceover I wanted to embody my inner Janet. To be in the position of doing voice over has been a new outlet of expression I’ve looked forward to pursuing for a while. I’m honored that Jordan trusted and envisioned me to take this role on.

Fashion

Racer and Eamonn Freel Explores Nostalgia and Identity Through Their Newest Campaign

December 24, 2024

Racer and photographer Eamonn Freel present a new project blending humor with cultural identity. The Tallinn-based brand continues to develop its distinctive post-Soviet aesthetic, building on the success of its debut runway show at Men’s Paris Fashion Week last June.

This collaboration explores post-irony and youth culture, inspired by late 2000s and early 2010s trends. Racer’s designs reflect the clothes its founders wished they had as kids, combining past and present. Subtle references to feeling “so close yet so far” add emotional depth, making the collection both personal and relatable.

Directed by Anna Himma and captured by Eamonn Freel, this campaign highlight the brand’s take on identity and history.

By Enzo Holdt
Creative direction by Anna Himma
Photography by Eamonn Freel
Styling by Natacha Voranger

Fashion

Inside PALY: A Conversation with James Franco and Kyle Lindgren

December 23, 2024

Kyle Lindgren and James Franco didn’t set out to create just another fashion brand when they launched PALY. Instead, they wanted to fuse their distinct worlds—cinema, storytelling, and design—into something that felt both personal and universally relatable.

Franco, an artist and filmmaker, brings his passion for storytelling to PALY, turning garments into canvases for narrative. His deep love for pop culture and film history infuses the brand’s aesthetic, with reimagined icons and cinematic references that add layers of depth to each collection.

Lindgren, whose roots in skatewear influence the brand’s design philosophy, found a unique synergy in Franco’s expansive archive of sketches. Together, their collaboration transformed what began as personal sketches for friends into a fully realized brand that blends creativity with practicality.

Simon Rasmussen and Enzo Holdt from Office Magazine sat down with James Franco and Kyle Lindgren to explore their creative process, sources of inspiration, and what’s next for PALY. While James Franco was late to join the call, the conversation offered plenty of insights.

Here’s what they had to say.

Interview by Simon Rasmussen and Enzo Holdt
Introduction by Enzo Holdt
Photography by Owen Kolasinski, Ryan Murray and Mark Anthony Blanco

Simon Rasmussen: Kyle, nice to meet you. How’s it going?

Kyle Lindgren: Hey, man. Good, good.

James always got Google Meet issues. But I’ll text him—he’s usually a couple minutes late.

Simon Rasmussen: How did you and James first meet?

Kyle Lindgren: Through mutual friends—classic L.A. story. My friend was close with his girlfriend, and we just kept crossing paths at art galleries and film events. During COVID, we ended up connecting more. I think he was writing a script loosely inspired by The Bachelor.

Simon Rasmussen: That’s a solid show.

Kyle Lindgren: Right? I mean, it started as research, but we all got hooked. Every week, friends would come over to watch The Bachelor at James' place. Actually, now that I think about it, this is kind of the origin story of PALY. I’d just come back from my day job at the Fucking Awesome, and James would be sitting there doodling in his notebook while we watched.

One night, I asked to see some of his sketches, and from there, I started experimenting. I’d wake up at 5 a.m. every day before work, watch YouTube tutorials on Photoshop, and just crank out designs. I wasn’t good at graphic design then—most of the stuff I made was terrible, looking back. But a couple of those pieces actually saw the light of day. I’d mock up t-shirts using James’s sketches and try different techniques I learned online. Eventually, we made about 30 designs, printed them all, and brought them to our Bachelor group. Everyone voted on which ones we should produce, and that became our first unofficial collection.

Simon Rasmussen: So this all started in 2020?

Kyle Lindgren: More like 2021. By that time, James had built up a pretty solid archive of sketches. During the pandemic, he started this ritual of sketching in a notebook every day. His assistant would scan everything, so when we began seriously creating designs—initially just for our friends—there were already 1,000 or 2,000 drawings to work with.

Now we’ve got over 8,000. He goes through a notebook every couple of weeks. It’s crazy.

(At this point, James Franco joins the conversation...)

James Franco: Hey, sorry I’m late. What’s up? I’m out of it. I’m only in LA for five days, so I just… yeah, I just got back. Sorry about that.

What were you guys talking about?

Kyle Lindgren: We were just talking about how you’d sketch during Bachelor nights and how that turned into our first designs.

James Franco: Oh, yeah. That’s funny to think about. It really started so casually during COVID. Well keep going.

Simon Rasmussen: So it really began during those watch parties?

Kyle Lindgren: Yeah, in the most random way. It wasn’t some planned thing; it just came together naturally.

Kyle Lindgren: I had forgotten that it all circled back to The Bachelor—when we used to sit and watch it every week. I think I was talking about how when we started mocking things up, we had maybe a couple thousand drawings. The last time I counted we had about 7,000. That was a year ago, and now we’re probably at 14,000. It’s been super helpful for designs.

James Franco: Yeah, I don’t know what Kyle’s told you, but we’ve known each other for years now. I’d gone to art school a long time ago, but I hadn’t been drawing or painting for years. During the pandemic, I read How to Be an Artist by Jerry Saltz. It’s a simple book, but really smart, with practical ideas about creativity. One suggestion was to draw every day. With acting on hold, I thought, Okay, I’ll create a schedule for myself, even if there are no art shows or concrete goals in sight.

I started sketching while we’d watch The Bachelor—initially as research for a script I was writing about LA TV.

Simon Rasmussen: So it started as research?

James Franco: Yeah, and then it became an addiction. My girlfriend’s the real reality TV addict now—she’s deep into The Real Housewives. I couldn’t hang with that; it’s like Dostoevsky-length reality TV. But The Bachelor didn’t require much focus, so I’d sketch while we all watched. Then Kyle asked me to draw on some denim. I did a couple of jackets, and our friends thought they were cool and started bringing their own jackets for me to customize.

Kyle saw potential in the drawings and started mocking up t-shirts. He scanned the sketches and printed them onto shirts. We ended up with a bunch of samples, laid them out in the kitchen, and had our friends vote on which ones were best. That became our first collection: eight t-shirts and a few hoodies and crewnecks.

Simon Rasmussen: When did this happen?

Kyle Lindgren: We showed the collection for Spring/Summer ’24, so by June 2023, we were in Paris.

James Franco: Before that, we didn’t have any store connections. Kyle lived near H. Lorenzo in LA, so we walked in with our stuff. It was like a scene from a movie. Lorenzo and his son, Mack, were there. Lorenzo was like, Okay, show me what you’ve got. Put it on the racks. They went through every piece, deciding which ones to take. It was all consignment, but they sold everything.

After that, we went to Paris for Men’s Week. We rented a hotel room and emailed stores, introducing ourselves as Kyle and James Franco. Honestly, I think some people thought it was a scam.

Kyle Lindgren: We didn’t want to market it as a “celebrity brand,” but that was probably the one time we used James’ name—just to get people to come look.

James Franco: Hey, Kyle, go back to the origin spot. What was in your brain when we started, I can't even remember?

Kyle Lindgren: Honestly, I think I just had this tunnel vision about apparel. Back then, everything I saw—sketches, objects, even random stuff like a leaf on the street—felt like it could be applied to fashion. It’s a bit corny, but I was constantly thinking, How can this become a shirt, or inspire a collection? Like so dumb.

It was really just like a daily practice. James was doing his daily drawings. I was doing my little daily mockups every morning before work. We never really forced anything. It also didn't come easy, like having a celebrity attached. Because that wasn’t the front-facing thing, we didn’t really take many shortcuts. It almost made it harder because we had this thing we were trying to conceal. We didn’t want it to damage the brand and wanted the design to stand on its own.

James Franco: At MRKT during Basel, people came in loving PALY without knowing I was involved. I was even drawing on denim at the party, and some kids didn’t realize it was me until later. It’s kind of fun being in the background like that.

Simon Rasmussen: So, why do you choose to tell the story now?

James Franco: There’s part of me that really liked the idea of it being kind of a hidden thing. Because, as opposed to acting, where I can’t escape it—it’s just like, boom, there I am; it’s my face that’s in the work—this was different. There was something appealing about a kind of Elena Ferrante or Banksy thing.

But I think we just figured: a) it wasn’t going to remain hidden forever. I was already meeting with all the stores, doing events. I wasn’t going to keep showing up to things in secret. And b) we realized the selling point wasn’t me. People liked the product. So, it wasn’t about leveraging celebrity; the design stood on its own.

Simon Rasmussen: Was Hollywood always part of the vision?

Kyle Lindgren: Yeah, it’s central to James’s art. His work reflects Hollywood history and its darker underbelly, so it became the natural throughline for the brand. When I placed his drawings into the context of the designs, Hollywood’s mystique tied everything together.

Simon Rasmussen: Is there a message to Hollywood in the brand?

James Franco: I wouldn’t call it a direct message or critique. It’s not like one of those tourist t-shirts that says, “This place sucks.” It’s more about transformation. There’s an underground filmmaker, Kenneth Anger, who really influenced me. He wrote Hollywood Babylon, a book full of overblown gossip and tragedy that turned Hollywood’s mystique into something almost mythical, like a quasi-religion. He collaborated with people like Mick Jagger but also explored Hollywood’s darker, mystical side.

Anger’s work was about taking the glamour and icons of Hollywood and making them reference something bigger—both its light and dark sides. That’s what I see PALY doing, too: not critiquing Hollywood but diving into it and amplifying its mystery and power. It’s about letting Hollywood represent something universal, something that fascinates us about humanity.

A lot of artists I admire, like Paul McCarthy, Harmony Korine, and Douglas Gordon, used Hollywood as material to create something new. For me, it’s similar—I grew up in Hollywood, but through art and now fashion, I can step outside of it. I’m in a unique position where I can use Hollywood as a lens, not just to critique it but to reimagine it and turn it into something fresh.

Simon Rasmussen: It's a very interesting place, you guys position yourselves. Luxury brands are increasingly positioning themselves as entertainment channels, aiming to compete with top Hollywood productions. Brands like Louis Vuitton and Saint Laurent are focused on creating films, taking on the role of filmmakers to rival major directors.

James Franco: Yeah, I noticed that trend at Cannes this year. Saint Laurent Productions had like four films there.

Simon Rasmussen: It’s fascinating how brands are trying to imitate Hollywood. It's very interesting. You're onto something.

James Franco: Exactly. I was just watching Queer by Luca Guadagnino last night, and Loewe's designer did all the costume design.

Enzo Holdt: The collection you just launched at Art Basel features reimagined posters of films like Paris, Texas, Blue Velvet, and Drugstore Cowboy. These movies explore themes of alienation, so I wanted to ask, James, why did you choose these specific films/posters to work on?

James Franco: There are a few reasons. On a practical level, Kyle sources these vintage posters, so part of it depends on what he finds. But when I saw these oversized, beautiful pieces, I initially hesitated—like, should I even draw on them? Then I thought, well, that's kind of what I do. When I was in Italy recently promoting a film, I spent a lot of time signing posters, so in a way, this felt like an extension of that—adding to the poster, not destroying it.

As for the films themselves, Kyle and I often develop themes for each collection, whether it's an old legend, a tragedy, or a myth. For example, in Miami, there’s a nod to Dorothy Stratton’s tragic story, which inspired Star 80. With Paris, Texas and Drugstore Cowboy, I have a personal connection, having worked with Wim Wenders and Gus Van Sant. And Blue Velvet, for me, is iconic—David Lynch at his best. It’s the movie where he fully became Lynch, balancing a polished surface and then underneath is the subconscious and the darkness. And in a way, I think that's our company, those multiple levels. So that movie, just like Kenneth Anger, is super special to me and Kyle.

And beyond that, these films share a certain kind of Americana, capturing a raw, rugged underbelly of America that resonates deeply with what we’re building.

Enzo Holdt: Kyle, when I look at PALY’s designs, I see a strong punk influence, which might come from your time at Fucking Awesome. But the combination of that with Hollywood—something far more glamorous and alluring—feels contrasting yet creates something really beautiful. Could you talk about that?

Kyle Lindgren: Definitely. My time at Fucking Awesome taught me a lot, particularly about working with an artist’s vision and translating it into three-dimensional forms.

Enzo Holdt: You’re referring to Jason Dill?

Kyle Lindgren: Yes, Jason. We’d dig through his archive of artwork and find creative ways to bring it to life. That experience taught me how to add depth to a collection, not just through storytelling—like what James brings—but also through the techniques we use.

With PALY, there’s a real emphasis on storytelling. James drives that narrative side, but we also make sure the garments physically tell a story. Techniques like crystals, embroidery, washes, and distressing aren’t just decorative—they give each piece a sense of history, as if the wear and details reflect where the garment has been.

Ultimately, we merge these elements into a cohesive whole, where the designs carry both visual and emotional depth.

Enzo Holdt: It sounds like PALY’s storytelling and approach are very tactile. Would you describe it as an analog brand in a digital world?

Kyle Lindgren: That’s a deep question. For me, I’m so involved in the day-to-day that it’s hard to step back and see the brand from a broader perspective. James is much better at looking at the whole picture, whereas I’m more focused on the physical product—the fabrication, techniques, washes, all of that.

In that sense, the brand feels analog to me. Maybe it’s because I’m getting older, but I naturally think product-first, rather than prioritizing social media or digital campaigns. That’s what creates a nice balance between James and me. His background is rooted in media and storytelling, whereas I’m more hands-on and product-oriented. Together, it creates a dynamic mix.

James Franco: I love that, and I’ll just add something quickly. About ten years ago, I did a project with MOCA in L.A. based on Rebel Without a Cause. The project, Rebel, involved different artists reinterpreting parts of the film or its behind-the-scenes stories to create new work.

That’s what I appreciate about PALY. It’s not about critiquing Hollywood; it’s about re-engaging with it and giving it new life. I love how old movies still resonate—fan clubs, special screenings, places like the New Beverly—and how they continue to bring people together.

Through PALY, we’re doing something similar. We’re not remaking Drugstore Cowboy, but we’re reanimating its essence. These stories and legends get a new form through the clothes—new iconography, new imagery. It’s like the narrative is reborn, letting people connect with those stories in a fresh way. You’re not just watching the movie; you’re experiencing it again, but differently, through what you wear.

Enzo Holdt: You have mentioned Kenneth Anger a few times, what is your favorite project of his? I just watched Lucifer Rising for the first time, and it felt a bit occult, but I thought it was pretty good.

James Franco: Lucifer Rising definitely has a dark backstory.

Enzo Holdt: Yeah, I read about the music and the composer was connected to the Manson family, right?

James Franco: Exactly. Beausoleil was the first member of the Manson family to be arrested. He wasn’t involved in the Sharon Tate murders but was tied to an earlier one. There’s a whole history there—he and Kenneth Anger had a falling out, and supposedly, Beausoleil stole some of the film reels for Lucifer Rising and buried them in the desert.

Enzo Holdt: That’s wild.

James Franco: For me, Scorpio Rising is still my favorite Kenneth Anger project. I first saw it in film school, and it completely blew me away. What stood out was the way he used pop hits of the time as a soundtrack, set against contrasting and provocative visuals.

What really struck me, though, was how Anger, as a queer artist, captured a real biker gang and transformed their image. Instead of coming across as purely tough and hyper-masculine, they take on this sensual, almost queer quality through his lens. That idea of transforming your subject through how you shoot it really resonated with me. It influenced my early short films at NYU and is still something I think about in my work today.

Enzo Holdt: What has been the most rewarding part of building PALY together?

James Franco: For me, the most rewarding part has been the collaboration. I’ve always loved working with others—it’s something I learned from being an actor and making films, where every project involves so many people coming together. Working with Kyle has felt really natural, and it’s been this beautiful, symbiotic process.

I tend to want to do too much—I overload scripts, shoot too many scenes, and put in more than necessary. When I direct movies, editors and producers help me refine things, and Kyle plays a similar role for PALY. He’s like an editor, filtering my tendency to go overboard and helping shape all these ideas into something cohesive and better.

As an artist, having a collaborator or editor you trust is invaluable. It’s what I’ve always envied about teams like the Coen Brothers—someone to bounce ideas off of and build something together. That’s what we’ve created here, and it’s incredibly rewarding.

Kyle Lindgren: I’d have to echo that—it’s the collaboration. Being able to bounce ideas back and forth until they evolve into something unexpected is such a special process. Often, it’s a struggle to get there, but when you trust your partner, even if it’s just starting on a two-dimensional screen, you create something far better than you could have on your own. For me, that’s the most rewarding part of this whole journey.