7 Days S/S '20

Her SS24 collection acknowledged the past, in fact it stood guard. Taking the form of girls in her signature screen printed tube dresses, they stationed themselves under bright lights and concrete pillars before sculptural-like garments floated by on an elevated runway. This choice to give form to past and future in turn reveals the underlying continuity innate to the label’s larger ecosystem – allowing each season to mark growth versus collection thematics, solely. At the heart of this ecosystem is a close-knit network of collaborators, including MUA, Nat Carlson and hairstylist Sonny Molina, who have helped to fortify the brand’s distinct aesthetic and energy. Despite the built-in delusion to the cadence of the fashion calendar, Anna Bolina has fostered a sense of transcendence through relationships and trust. 

office speaks with Anna Bolina, Nat and Sonny, yielding a greater understanding of what it means to use the seasons as bridges versus markers of time.

On SS24 w/ Anna Bolina

Lindsey Okubo– How are you feeling after the show? 

Anna Bolina– I’m kind of feeling the come down effect that happens once you finish a creative project where it's like you're so focused and have such a sense of purpose in the months leading up to it but afterward, it’s like what do I do now? Even though I should probably rest, sometimes just jumping into new projects just makes me feel better. 

Yeah totally because on the flip side of that, I feel like when you take too much time off, it’s hard to come out of it. It can feel quite existential. 

I feel like I don’t have a clear path or goal of what I’m working on, it really stresses me out. 

I feel that and kind of on that note, the Anna Bolina girl does have such a clear visual identity. I know you made an homage to that of sorts at the opening of the show with the girls in the tube dresses walking out and essentially standing guard around the runway. Then on another note, it’s interesting to think about it from a beauty perspective with hair and make-up and your longtime collaborators, hair stylist, Sonny Molina and MUA, Nat Carlson. 

This season the collection felt very sculptural, you really pushed the look and that kind of represents the ways in which the Anna Bolina girl is growing up and she’s frustrated. Can you expand on that a bit? I feel like it’s a common motif across brands and wondering if that’s just because we’re at this transitional period in our lives or what. 

When someone asks me what the Anna Bolina girl is like, I tend to think about what I’m experiencing in the world. I’m growing up and now I’m at this level of doing this business where it's no longer just fun and games with friends, it's become high stakes. There's a lot of frustration in me about the fashion industry in general and in the world in general. You open TikTok and you’re berated with bad news all the time. It's becoming harder and harder for me to enjoy the things that I used to enjoy like getting dressed up, doing my hair and makeup, putting on my nails and going out. That's something that I really miss but now I have to get up everyday and be at my studio at nine o’clock and life feels a lot harder. It feels like there's a lot of attention on things that we should not be focusing on right now. 

What are some of those things?

I think people are attacking each other within our own communities instead of looking at the big picture of things. I also feel like life has become really sterile because everyone is concerned with the wrong things and going after the wrong people who are creating these larger issues in the world that are more corporate or tethered to capitalism, especially in the fashion industry. There’s a lot of frustration that is tethered to the constant push and pull of how to make money and still fulfill the creative energy inside. This is something we were trying to highlight with the concept of the girls coming out in the tube dresses because ultimately yes, there are all these clothes on the runway but to me, they’re more like art pieces transformed into wearable things. This business is dependent on these printed dresses and that’s what makes all this possible. Figuring out the next steps is something that I need to do because I have to figure out how to make money because it's ultimately a business.

Yeah and the push and pull moment is interesting because it does come to a head. You realize that maybe there’s less of a choice than you thought there was and it's interesting that you used the word sterile because it is this fine balance of maintaining purity, dressing up, clothing, it’s supposed to be fun but even the ways in which going out has become this battle of self esteem, it’s seeped into everything. 

There’s a lot of negativity, we are always going to the same places and there's a lot of repetition creating boredom and beyond that people are frustrated with the world and its seeping out everywhere. All of that has made me feel like not wanting to participate in things that I used to a lot and it definitely kind of sucks.

Yeah and even the frustration linked to the notions of going to the same places, I feel like that’s about an expectation for “fetch” to happen instead of just the simple joys of going out and knowing your friends will be there. In thinking about how that translates then into the clothes, the fact that the things that came down the runway were art pieces versus you going into a more commercial direction seemingly is you filling the void perhaps and having the fun that you missed having from the changes that ensued.

Yeah and it was so fun and I don't work from home anymore and you met Ashley, my assistant designer, and just having her here with me really in the studio opened up the time to really dive into the detail work that has always been missing. Previously, we were using wire to shape things instead of boning and we weren’t able to do things like second fittings to make sure everything was tailored to really fit and of course, everything got crazy and some things didn't exactly go on exactly how we wanted it to but that's how it seems to always go. I always think we have enough help and then we somehow never do.

Yeah and I mean not to be totally cheesy but somehow the details seem to translate into having those moments of small joy that we’re unable to find nowadays. 

Totally and it just feels a little bit darker in the New York scene. I don't know if it's just my own perspective or what's happening but for me, I've just had to really focus on work more so and looking at it from an outside perspective, it’s like wait, am I really interested in going out? I love to dance. I used to go to a big concert every weekend but a lot of times now these parties are more about people wanting to network, meet people and have all these little conversations that are really like not anything. I ask myself if this is what we all want to be doing? I'm not sure.

Yeah and it's weird because people want to go to these things but while they're there, they're completely self-censoring themselves, it feels calculated. You’ve described your clothes as nighttime wear and really you’d only be able to wear these things if you’re confident. With clothing there is this aspect of self-awareness that comes along with it.  

Totally and in what I was saying before, maybe it’s because I've lived in New York for a while and I'm getting older and seeing all these new kids that are really excited, I’m like my energy is so different from that now. Because that part of my life has kind of slowed down, I'm getting what I used to get by dressing myself up and going out, by making clothes and putting all of the energy into that. Now I’m making videos and doing shows in order to fulfill that need for what I was experiencing that was almost like a performance. I’m realizing I’m able to make those experiences in my life happen but with and through the brand. 

Yeah and when you think of the word “evolution” or what it means to grow, this notion of finding new streams of fulfillment feels like your definition of that now. When we think about creativity too, we also need to find ways to make our practices sustainable because you’re not going to feel the same way about something forever. Then linking things to the beauty perspective we’re integrating, it’s also about all the ways in which your look changes too and even the ways in which “beauty” itself has evolved. We’re now looking at ourselves and other people more than ever but how many of us actually feel good. The Anna Bolina girl has an undeniable sense of confidence and when you’re working with Sonny and Nat for the show, what are your starting points for the direction of things?

We have a great relationship where we've worked together for so long that they really know my taste and I really trust them. Usually I give them a couple ideas and then they come back to me with multiple options and concepts of how to actually execute them along with their own original ideas and we build off of that. This time I told Nat that I wanted it to focus on the eyes and sort of have this extremely diffused smoky eye, almost like a big smudge and she rolled with that completely and came up with the concepts herself. With Sonny, I wanted to add asymmetry within the hair to match the asymmetrical lengths in the pieces along with adding color to the collection. Sonny came up with these amazing roots for the hair and when we did the hair test, I was blown away. I was like, “Oh my god, can you do this to me everyday?” They can take an unarticulated idea that’s just a general vibe in a mind and not only articulate it through hair but expand on it in ways that I would never have thought of.

Yeah and to have these kinds of relationships, I’m like that’s ultimately what success is because you’ve created a world that other people can live in and understand. 

Yeah and that's why I really love working with the same team and I’m really loyal to them because we all feel like we really get each other. 

Conversely in what we were talking about before, people are going out to try to meet people in hopes of making these connections so why would you shake that up?

On Makeup w/ Nat Carlson

Lindsey– So I was talking to Annalee and she was telling me about your process for deciding on glam for the season and she mentioned wanting to focus on the eyes. Do you want to tell me a bit more about your vision for the make-up, process and all that good stuff?

Nat– I feel lucky to work with her because I get to be a big part of the process. I’m able to witness the whole collection coming to fruition because I'm around her in the studio months before the collection actually debuts so I have time to think about the direction. This collection Annalee gave me notes across the eye and we were originally going to do like a streaky sort of look, but then we decided to do the more contrast-y black and white as it fit the vibe of the collection more with the duality of light and dark. I wanted to do something really severe this time to show how dark and intense the Anna Bolina girl is because in past collections we've done pretty glam with lashes that were a little messier but we didn't really show the severity of the girls and so we wanted to kind of go all out this season. Even with Sonny doing all the colors in the hair, we wanted to be extreme. I also want to shout out to my friend, Dara, because I was doing a makeup test on her for the show and she showed me this really cool picture of Debra Shaw from this old McQueen show and the makeup which we ended up incorporating.

Right and Annalee was also talking about how she feels that the feeling in New York right now is just a bit dark and fulfillment has to come from things other than what once was. Nihilism is an attitude and a word that has seemingly swept over us all in a rush of deep sighs and proclivities for chaos so naturally, when you say “severity,” I’m wondering if these things are linked?

I feel like it's true that things aren't as exciting anymore, I can agree with that. I don't know if it's just getting older or if things are changing but I feel like what we're doing, or trying to do, is to channel energy into our work in order to create that excitement again. It’s about not trying to look for it externally like with partying and everything. I mean, life is pretty severe but it's also really chill at the same time. 

Yeah and you used the word “duality” too and that’s a big part of it right? I feel like you can really see that also in these new notions of beauty and how that’s changed and evolved. People nowadays are looking at themselves more than ever, there’s a hyper-awareness around appearance and the laws of attraction have become stand-ins for values.  

There's an overflow of content now especially in beauty and fashion. I give props to Annalee for keeping it cool because I feel like everything doesn't always look that cool these days or feel authentic. The medium that she's doing it in, fashion, is very superficial and played out but she does it in a way that's so inspiring and fabulous. 

Yeah and even the word “authentic” has become such a “dirty word” you know? What is real anymore? Ultimately, do you think it's just become a feeling because especially with beauty you can erase and efface yourself by putting on a face? 

Annalee and I are both Geminis so authenticity is always a question for us because we both have chameleon personalities and I feel like that's always a question for Geminis, like who really am I? What's my identity? Because it shifts around a lot and in turn allows for a lot of creative ideas to come forth. 

Right, you get to play with the idea of the self. I think people are doing this more and more nowadays as performance is built into online presence but rarely does it yield a greater understanding of themselves. Beauty is such a huge part of that too and I feel like it’s become more about validation than learning. How did you get into beauty even?

Make-up has always been something I was super interested in. I remember I was like five years old and I was wishing on the first star I saw for a tube of lipstick. Style and beauty have always allowed me to express myself, even though that sounds corny. Annalee and I are both very particular about how we look and we're constantly reinventing ourselves. I think we're similar in that way where we really know what we like and but we are still constantly changing – so it’s that contradiction again. I was styling before I got into beauty and through that I met some makeup artists. I'm an artist, first of all so I like to draw and stuff like that and it just made more sense for me than styling. I really decided to commit to make-up and it’s really turned out good so far.

Right and with art too, it’s ultimately about like connection and you're really also getting to like change the way somebody else sees themselves which I imagine, is pretty fulfilling.

I love the social element of it. I love being in a new situation every time because it keeps things interesting and I’m really lucky that this is my job. I love making people feel good, as stressful as it can be sometimes. I feel like it's always good to think on the bright side and this nihilism is so stupid to me because it's you're living this life for the foreseeable future so why not take care of everyone around you. Things kind of do need to be burned down right now in order for new things to rise but there needs to be a sense of hope. Nihilism feels like giving up to me. 

Totally and this desire for chaos or “the end” is a front in my opinion, it’s easier to pretend not to care but it’s really hiding behind insecurity, a lack of growth. How are you defining growth in your career and the nuances between fulfillment and success?

Just being happier with what I'm doing and obviously making more money is growth. I feel like it is easy to get caught trying to fit into a certain box and seeing what other people are doing and following that. Getting all the best gigs is sometimes just following that ladder but I've always been very independent and working for other people has never ended super well for me. I'm just trying to carve my own path while still making a living and being true to myself – which I feel is possible.

Definitely and how related is that to a willingness to be vulnerable? Vulnerability is an interesting word when you apply it to beauty. 

It is important to speak up when something representing you and your work doesn’t align with the vibe being presented. It's a lot of figuring out the right ways to say things and having your voice be heard as much as it can be. Vulnerability is something I'm not used to but it's a skill that I've learned as I've gotten older. I was very closed off as a kid and now I know the importance of vulnerability from my friends teaching me that it’s how you earn trust with people. I feel like I could be even more vulnerable in my work by being more in tune with my true emotions and working from a place within. 

Right and it’s funny because we think of beauty as such an external thing but now I feel like that’s changing a bit and being a “good” makeup artist is the invisible union between spirit and body. 

All the best makeup artists I know are super emotionally in tune with themselves, very intuitive, very comforting. The best people that do are very motherly and really connect with the person whose makeup they're doing, they make it a very human thing even though it's become this whole mask, AI situation. It's cool to be both, I love a mask, I love the anonymity but it’s always cool to marry two completely different concepts all the time.

I feel like maybe that's what your definition of growth is then? It’s continuing to figure out how to best do that.

Totally, I agree. 

My last question actually is how you and Sonny work together to create a full look and the creative exchange that happens between makeup and hair.

We've both been working on the Anna Bolina shows since they started so we’ve gotten to grow together. Sonny was always inspo for me because she was so established already when I started makeup. I just love her chic style and she adds that element of polish to the Anna Bolina girl that contradicts the dark, rough and edgier vibes by a more refined style. I've been friends with them for a long time so it always feels like a family reunion every time.

On Hair w/ Sonny Molina

Okay so now that I have some tea from Annalee and Nat, can you talk about your vision for the season? Similarly to what Nat was saying about wanting to make things a bit more severe, I know you also wanted to push the hair more. 

When it comes to designing the look, the fun part of doing the hair for the Anna Bolina girl is that she’s a very specific girl, she has her own formula and you can see her clearly in your mind’s eye when you imagine what kind of hair she has. When I think about doing her hair, I don't necessarily want to change the way that girl is but I want to take her out of her own box without doing something too extreme. The Anna Bolina girl isn’t going to have a back-combed beehive necessarily so I have to challenge myself to worry more about the details of the hair versus having the hair take over the show. The hair needs to be an aid to the Anna Bolina woman but not be anything more than that. The colored roots and the pops of color allowed me to make the look feel completely different than what she's done in the past because she's never really experimented with color so this added in an air of the unexpected. 

Right and being an independent hair stylist who cuts hair, you really get to see the nuanced ways in which people are often defined by their hair. Hair to me feels like more of an expression of individual identity than makeup and I’m wondering how you carry that over when you’re working with a brand like Anna Bolina that has a fixed look? 

I think the fact that I cut hair for people around the city and that I’m involved in the fashion and art world as well which is a big advantage for me. When I'm put in a fashion-centric setting, I'm also using the influence and culture of the young New York scene and applying it to the client’s world. Especially when it comes to the runway, I feel like you have to bring that awareness to the show because everyone can feel that energy and it’s an experience. Even though the Anna Bolina girl is a specific woman, Annalee never puts me in a box or forces me to do anything. She trusts that I understand where she comes from and we've had a similar time growing up in New York together so there’s a lot of unspokenness that she lets unravel because she trusts my tastes and where I'm coming from within New York.

It’s interesting how you’re translating and transforming cultural understanding into hair. Can you talk me through that process a bit more? For instance I know you’ve developed this sixth sense of knowing what people want when they walk in for a haircut. 

Definitely, I'm coming up on eight or nine years in New York and I've been here since I was like 18 or 19 years old. The interesting thing about my position in New York as someone who cuts hair independently and also works in fashion is that I’m able to take the learnings and successes from each side to inform the other. For many years when I was on set, a lot of people saw me as the young kid growing up in New York and they valued my opinion because of that. On the flip side, when I'm cutting people's hair, people trust me to help them make decisions for themselves versus telling me what to do. These different clienteles inform and influence each other through me. 

Right and on your end, you have to be open and vulnerable enough to take that all in. Nat was talking about this too and as the idea of beauty has evolved and expanded, you must also have to have a lot more empathy for people in order to move between these worlds. 

Vulnerability is super important. I know even in another office feature, one of the questions I was asked was, what my greatest tool was? and my response was empathy. As an artist and especially as someone who works with people, making them feel comfortable can be achieved by understanding and appreciating their associations. It’s knowing where they like to get lunch, where their skirt is from, or who they hang out with. It all goes back to knowing how to take care of someone and what they might want from me as a service. Having empathy allows me to make informed decisions in a way that requires judgment without being judgmental and I’m well informed by the city we're in. I feel like I help people to decide on the hair they want by pulling it out of them, an unlocking of sorts. 

Absolutely. We were also talking about the ways in which people self-censor now though and it sometimes leads to this coalescence of aesthetics or even hairstyles. It’s also knowing where something comes from and Annalee showcased that through the tube dresses at the beginning of the show.

I think like you said earlier, there is such a formula now. I lived in New York before there was TikTok and Instagram was still very influential but it was more of a reflection of where you went and the life you were living. Now you can go on TikTok, identify the subculture you want to be part of when you're 12 years old and depend on that. People don’t have to go through the process of figuring themselves out the way we used to have to do. 

Does that takeaway the joy of cutting hair or working in the industry? 

No formula would take any joy from it for me. Half of the reason why I love cutting hair is just talking to people and becoming friends with them and then the other half is me doing my job and making sure they feel good at the end. I love creating but people to me are everything, being able to have an understanding of where they’re at in their lives or their time in New York is so special to me.

Totally and when you say awareness and thinking about how that applies to beauty or personal presentation, makeup and hair are different even though they involve the same visual language. Can you kind of talk about those nuances and how you’ve developed a relationship working with Nat season after season and the sense of  greater awareness cultivated – even for each other? 

Growing with Nat has been cool because I've known her for many years before she was a makeup artist and she’s always been a standout individual. To see her branch off, tackle makeup and incorporate her vision on Annalee’s show was a perfect beginning for her to spread her wings and experiment because they already have a strong foundation, friendship and history in New York. To see her choose makeup as a medium was exciting because she was really able to pour her individuality and artistry into that with purpose. I knew it was going to be great no matter what because she's always had something special about her already.

Right and the Anna Bolina shows are so special because you both have been doing them from the beginning and you get to grow together, season after season, and that intention is rare.

We’re really starting to stack up the seasons now and the best part is just the trust and the truth. It allows change in direction to be comfortable even if it happens the day of. There are always elements you can and can’t control and at the end of the day when Annalee runs to the back of the show and we're still working, she's just like, do whatever you want, I know you're gonna pick the right thing to do. I do fully believe her when she says she trusts us to make a decision.  

Even with this notion of trust, it’s understanding that it’s a process to develop it that inevitably is laced with doubt, challenges and whatever else. Can you speak to how you all have developed trust with each other and with yourselves as artists? 

The trust that developed most importantly came because we were friends before we even were collaborators and we all came from similar places and understood the same things. So having that trust already and then working together added an entirely new layer to our relationships that was unspoken. As an artist, you go through ups and downs. You lose trust within yourself sometimes, whether it's imposter syndrome or artist block, and you have to remind yourself that you may not feel like the best version of yourself but for me, I do trust that I've cared about this for this long so that maybe my bare minimum is actually good enough.