The Design Language of Bobby Cabbagestalk

February 20, 2022

As time goes on, our relationship with clothes continues to change. Consciousness is shifting, and many people are beginning to develop new perspectives— ones that truly value what's in their closets. Presenting offerings that evade low-quality production and motives of staying trendy, Bobby Cabbagestalk is creating a design language connecting influences that continue to inspire him.

Born in Buffalo, New York, and based in East Los Angeles, Cabbagestalk provides insight into a world that can be. Rooted in an aesthetic fusing cultural awareness and futuristic subtleties, the visionary aims to create clothes that stand the test of time. Carrying this objective into his new collection, "Soft Armor," Cabbagestalk explores the conventions of structure and safeguarding through silhouettes.

Text by Michael Hall
Photos by Alexandra Alva
Art Direction by Bobby Cabbagestalk
Model: Mayah Hatcher
Studio: Metahaiku

Cabbagestalk's journey has taken unexpected turns as a self-taught designer, arriving at the perfect moment — releasing his first collection with a solid support system behind him. Many people struggle with what to say or how to say it, yet Bobby Cabbagestalk speaks directly to the narrative his clothes tell, one of intention, community, and timelessness.

In an exclusive interview with office, Bobby Cabbagestalk discusses his first collection, "Soft Armor," his design journey, and the influences that have built him up.

I want to talk about your beginnings. What jump-started this passion for design and clothing?

The funny thing is, I never thought that I could make clothing. I never thought that it was for me. But I've always been a fan of well-made products and the creative energy that surrounds things that I'm really into. And so, even outside of clothing, I can remember every time I encountered a creative asset, and it completely just changed my way of thinking. I think the first time for me was when I was in the car with my dad, and I might have been 12 years old, and it was a fall day after school. We're sitting in the driveway, and "Take Five" by Dave Brubeck came on the radio. That was the first time that I had the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. We were sitting in silence in his car, and the drum solo came on, Joe Morello, the drummer for Tech Five Quartet, and I was completely blown away. It was like time stopped.

I think being able to recreate that moment, by stopping people in their tracks and giving them that feeling of inspiration and empowerment really inspires me. So when I finally decided to make clothing, I had to make a decision, like, is this just ego? Or do I actually have a unique perspective? Do I have a story to tell? And I just wrote some ideas down. And I was like, 'I think I have something to say.' And that's kind of where the journey started. I went to school for advertising. I never studied fashion. So I was trying to get out of my own way. I don't need a degree. I don't need to know this person or that person. I can just try to figure it out. And I just made the decision; I'll start trying to make one piece and just go from there. And that's kind of how the wheels started turning.

What was the turning point from being inspired to creating your first piece, eventually leading to your first collection?

The first thing I made was this fishtail wax cotton jacket. This was a few years ago. And the first person that I sold it to was a friend of mine. He wore it out one day with a group of friends downtown in Little Tokyo, and my friend tapped me on the shoulder. He was like, 'Look’...I looked up and saw the way he walked and how his posture completely changed. His confidence was through the roof. You know, it was like he was king for a day. I was like, 'Okay, I think I'm onto something here.' So how can I snowball this into something bigger?

I absorb a lot of information on a daily basis. I watch a lot of film. I read a lot of poetry. I listen to tons and tons of music. So I'm always looking for new information that I can interpret and express back out into the world. I started to realize these ideas were worth something, and I could break them out and spread them across, you know, different categories that will essentially build a universe, my design universe. So everything that I'm working on right now is an attempt to develop a design language with a story that people can really sink their teeth into. I decided to focus my attention on silhouettes and how my clothes function. The fashion landscape is so competitive and I don't want just to make a jean or a t-shirt, you know. So I made rules for the first collection that I'm working on now, I told myself “no buttons, no zippers”; the fabric has to do the work for you. And from there, I was able to apply this ethos to a shirt, to pants, to a jacket, etc. When I started to sketch out these ideas and started prototype them, I realized that I had something that I could build on.

Your work continues to make an impression. It's been seen on Flo Milli, Nez, and others. Can you speak to those connections?

A good friend of mine, Nez, he's an artist, a huge producer who has transitioned to a solo artist. We went to college together, so we have a great creative rapport. We were able to creative direct a video that he had with Flo Milli. And I was lucky enough to work at YEEZY starting in January 2020 for the Season 8 collection that was shown in Paris. YEEZY was essentially my fashion school. I can't get into too much detail about what I did there, but it completely reframed how I thought about design, and larger than that, how I think about culture, zeitgeist, and artistic expression. It was the most important experience I’ve had to date. It just taught me how to have certain design sensibilities that I never considered before. So once I was able to experience that it was truly transformational for me as a creative.

As you said, your craft is informed by the extensive amount of information you consume. What inspired your first collection?

Totally. There's a cult classic sci-fi movie called THX 1138 by George Lucas, his directorial debut which came out in 1971. I'm heavy into science fiction because of the exaggerated possibilities that the genre presents, and that's where a lot of my inspiration comes from. This film has a narrated version in which George Lucas and Steven Spielberg walk you through each scene and what they were trying to achieve cinematically. At one point they said that they didn't want to make the movie look like the future. They wanted to make the movie as if it was made in the future. And that completely shifted my way of thinking. I use that statement as my Northstar, of how I want to design because it's very easy, especially now, to try to shock people into wearing your clothes, making things that are bizarre, but not fantastic. I can't compete with that. That's just not how I work. Rather, I often ask how I can be timeless? This is the white rabbit that I'm chasing, how can I make things as if they were made in the future, but even when we get to that moment, it's still ahead and ahead and ahead without being too far out of the conversation when people can't buy into it. That's the ethos that I continue to run with, timelessness. Progressive, but not to create a barrier. I just want to transform people's perspective of themselves when they wear my clothes and allow everyone to feel protected, empowered, and feel like they just look really fucking cool. You know? And have that confidence. How can I make people feel like they’re the best version of themselves.

While your clothes occupy the digital, do you anticipate a physical space in the future where customers can feel your pieces and have immediate connections with them? I understand you began selling your up-cycled tote at Género Neutral, an Echo Park showroom.

Oh, 100%. My friends have been pushing me to consider having a physical presence for quite a while. And it's obviously something that I want to do. I just wanted to make sure that I had the foundation to provide a unique experience. So the bag that I made in Género Neutral is upcycled. I sourced old mail bags from the 50s to the 80s. And I got these Army-issued World War II straps. And I was just like, 'Okay, I have this material and I want to make a bag that'll last forever.' How can I create something that kind of stands out architecturally, and create a unique shape that people when they wear it, it's like,' What the hell is that.' So it was just a combination of me trying to make something functional but also giving it a little bit of aesthetic consideration, making it a beautiful thing that you're just carrying around. And I also, at least I'm trying to combine these analog thoughts with the digital world. So you have this super old product that was made to last for a very long time. But it's been shaped into this modern shape with the ovals and the windows and the straps. In a perfect world, years from now, if I've cracked the code that I'm trying to seek, everything that I do is a perfect marriage of, the pre-internet kid who understands real-world interaction, and in-person moments, versus that first time going on the internet and being like,' holy shit, there's a whole other world out here to discover. 'But yeah, I'm looking to have pop-ups in the future and physical presence. When people touch my clothing and are able to try it on or just see it in person, it leaves a more lasting impression. So that's definitely what I'm working towards right now.

I just want to transform people's perspective of themselves when they wear my clothes and allow everyone to feel protected, empowered, and feel like they just look really fucking cool.

You also make accessible and relatively affordable clothes compared to brands that co-opt up-cycle wear or elevated sourced wear and charge nearly $1,000 for one piece. What's the intention behind that and your relationship with clothes that range in price?

I have a funny story. So I'm from Buffalo, New York. I grew up on Ralph Lauren, Nautica, Tommy Hilfiger, and LL Bean. The first piece of designer clothing I wanted were these blue wash Tommy Hilfiger jeans with the Tommy embroidered patch on the belt loop on the back. I might have been 12 years old. They were 90 bucks, and my mom was like, 'We'll put them on layaway.' So it took a month to pay it off. I finally got these jeans and wore them to church the next day with a red plaid Levi's button-down, tucked into the jeans, and some Nikes. I was in church for the entire day walking around making sure everybody saw my jeans. I was so happy to be able to take part in that conversation. But that's why Ralph Lauren is everywhere; Ralph Lauren doesn't price you out of the conversation and the quality of their clothes doesn’t change. I was talking to my friend NEZ. We kind of were around for the first streetwear boom, pre-Hypebeast when we were in college. And out of all those brands, we were buying, all those T-shirts and all that shit, we look in our closet now. It's mainly either Carhartt, Ralph Lauren, vintage, or my samples. These clothes last forever, and they outlive their price point, you know what I mean? It's added value. And so that's also something that I'm working on. There's a great Black painter, Kerry James Marshall, and he said, "what it means to be a contemporary artist is that you not only have to create value, you have to educate and add value to everything that you do." And so if I can make a product that people can afford, but when they get it, they feel like they're lucky even to have it because it'll outlast how much it costs. I think that's a way of adding value to people's lives. And getting them to understand the quality, thought, and consideration that goes into designing these clothes. Because I do want to have this dialogue with my customer about the way that I think and view the world and how things function. I just don't want to create a product that's so astronomically expensive that they like it, it looks cool on the internet, but they can't see themselves in it in real life.

Your outlook is extremely expansive and allows you to explore the intersections of different modes of design and art. Aside from fashion, where do you see these explorations taking you?

The thing that I love about fashion is that you can have 10 different conversations to express one idea. Photography, typography, graphic design, set design, music, etc. I think that's why I gravitate towards fashion so much because the garment is just the first step. Virgil, rest in peace; he said, "I can either design this cup, or I can design the room that cup is in." And for me, I want to design that room as well. I do want to use this as a platform to be able to extend into other forms of expression. I have a lot of ideas about furniture design and home goods, especially because a lot of the brands that I love and grew up with, they're not only in your closet, they're in your living room, they're in your bathroom, and everything is apart of this ecosystem. I love film and during shutdown, I was watching every movie that I told myself I was going to watch over the past few years. So I'm watching all these Japanese filmmakers, and I'm watching these Russian and German filmmakers and just seeing their perspectives, and I want to be able to do this too. I think it would be only natural that I begin to break out and work in these mediums. If I can tie them all into this platform that I'm trying to create with this namesake label, I think that I'll achieve my mark.

Definitely. On your Instagram, you have a photo of a statue that's a female figure, and it ties into the aesthetic of the brand and speaks to the shapes and silhouettes of your clothing.

Yeah, Jacob Epstein is one of my favorite sculptors. The sculpture you’re referring to is “Female Figure in Flenite, 1913”.
In that same year, he also made a sculpture called the Rock Drill with Torso. This is made over 100 years ago and when you look at it now, it looks like it was made 200 years from now. I don't know if you're a Star Wars fan or if you've seen Star Wars, but it's what the drones are designed after. So when I saw it, I was like, this looks so cool. But it looks so familiar. I'm always looking at statues for shape and form. And the last photoshoot that I did was really trying to tap into that energy, that spirit of being statuesque, but also using a body that's flesh and bone, posing in certain ways that exude strength, that exude vulnerability.

Do you see the work that you do as collaborative? And if so, what part of the process is collaborative?

Right now the concept phase of my design process begins and ends with me. So the research that I do and the garment ideas that grow out from that stage are all on me. Eventually, I would love to build out an internal design team, that’s a dream of mine that I’m working towards. If YEEZY taught me anything it's the power of having a collaborative design process. However, I do have a very good network of professionals that helped me make clothes; pattern makers and sewers, and so on. My production process is highly collaborative. I'm very blessed and lucky to have that. It took a very long time to be able to get to the point where I could, you know, work with these people. But that's probably what I'm most proud of right now is having established some of those relationships because I know how hard it can be to get them. But thinking outside of my own label, working with other brands and labels, I think that would be absolutely incredible. There are many labels, both young or established, I’d like to work with. One of my favorite collabs is Martine Rose x Napapijri. When they did that collab, I was just like, okay, this is it. These silhouettes are crazy. These colors are crazy. The campaign was crazy. It was a cool way for them to put their brands in a space they normally wouldn't be in. I think I would love to collaborate and work with other fashion designers and other artists in different industries and also different organizations. I’m very excited about the work I’m seeing from young graphic designers and fine artists and I think my label can fit in this space in some capacity.

Any more insight into your upcoming collection?

The collection is called Soft Armor. I mentioned that none of the clothes have zippers or buttons and it was really challenging. It forced me to hone in on construction and function. I wanted the silhouettes not to be exaggerated but to be more shapely. In one of the images that I shot, there's a sweater where I tucked and rolled the fabric in a certain way, and stitched it down to where it makes the person look bigger than what they are. And that was based on a Puffer Fish. They inflate to look bigger than what they really are to scare predators away. During the first shutdown, we were getting bombarded with all this doomsday nihilism, and the protests were going on. Everybody was in a really down place.

People need protection from that. How can I make it? What's my breastplate look like? What's my sword look like? What is my shear, and that's kind of how the conversation started? How can I manipulate these fabrics to say, 'Don't fuck with me,' but not have to write on the shirt? 'Don't fuck with me.; It's just creating these soft armor pieces that function differently, that have a unique shape to them. And kind of quietly signal to a futurist ideal. That's what I've been aiming at.

—

Nowadays, it's really important to shout out inspirations or people who inspire you. I just want to do a quick roll call of artists, musicians, and painters who all have helped guide my ideas and thoughts. First and foremost, Kerry James Marshall. He's a Black painter based out of Chicago, and I listened to his lectures nonstop. They're always on repeat because he provides a lot of valuable information for young artists and how they can be successful in their own right. Edmonia Lewis is a Black and Native American woman who was a sculptor and the first to rise to international prominence. William Edmondson - He was another sculptor. He was the first Black artist to be featured at the MoMA in New York. Louisahhh - She is a techno punk producer and singer-songwriter. She's incredible. She's based in France. I've known her for a long time. She inspires me because she's fearless. LTJ Bukem - A legendary drum n bass producer and DJ. I love drum n bass and I soundtrack all of my work that I do to it. Source Direct - Another legendary drum n bass duo. And finally - Sam Gilliam. He’s a color field painter I admire not only for his abstract perspective but the large, confident scale he presents his work with.

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After 30 years and over 100 cult fragrances, COMME DES GARÇONS PARFUMS 1994–2025 BY SIMONETT & BAER launches this month

December 17, 2024

“I have to add that the topic is, of course, an irrational one, because it's not art and it's not fashion. It has to do with scent, which is something in the air,” explains Dino Simonett, renowned art-book maker and designer/publisher of the new COMME des GARÇONS x SIMONETT & BAER book, which details 30 years of CDG perfumes.

“The moment you smell something is irrational,” he continues. “This book transports you and brings you to the idea behind the perfumes. People have gotten thousands of art catalogues from me, but this fucking perfume thing really drives people a little bit crazy, you know? Because everybody has this bottle; and that bottle smells like this on them; and this bottle I need; and all the memories and everything. I like it a lot that we made this.”

As fans and family of the world’s coolest brand prepared to gather at Dover Street Parfums Market in Paris to celebrate the launch of the book, our Editor-At-Large Paige Silveria shared some coffee and cigarettes with Simonett to discuss his wild trajectory, making books with Joseph Beuys and Tilda Swinton early on, and the importance of nonconformal thinking.

By Paige Silveria

This fucking perfume thing really drives people a little bit crazy.

Paige Silveria: Tell me about yourself. You make books.

Dino Simonett: My books are my art. Each book might be a painting or sculpture. And you should not do the same sculpture all the time. When you hike somewhere, you never should go the same way back home — this is something my mother taught me when I was young. In the same way, it's boring to make the same stuff all the time. So I try to find a way to invent my own language.

PS: This book you’ve made is really beautiful.

DS: It’s hyperrealistic larger-than-life images of boxes and flacons in an endless row presented on paper the thickness of a children’s book.

PS: I loved how it said in the press release that you woke up one Sunday morning and the idea for the book suddenly came to you.

DS: The backstory is that Remo Hallauer [COO of COMME des GARÇONS International] is a true book lover. We met at the Offprint book fair in Paris. And one day, shortly after peak COVID, this email came from him asking if I’d think about a possible collaboration with one of the young stars here — and no hard feelings, but it didn’t work out. So then, as it is in life, which is the essential thing, you have to have an idea. And most of the time, they’re not good enough. You have to have another and another and then you go, Ah ha! Perfume.

PS: And you’d already been pretty familiar with their fragrances?

DS: I’ve known this stuff since the beginning. I wore the first perfume they created. It was part of my life all the time, and I thought, It's so funny. There’s a connection with how I make the books: like two, three books a year, all collaborations and each is different. Just like their perfumes. So I immediately texted Remo.

PS: And what perfect timing, with the 30-year anniversary.

DS: Yes, but this was two years ago or so. I hadn’t had the jubilee in mind. It might not look like much, but there was a lot of work to do.

PS: Many of the advertisements and images weren’t archived, physically or digitally, right? You had to search all over for a good portion of the material?

DS: Well we also had to wait for the official deal to go through in the beginning. Adrian Joffe [President of COMME des GARÇONS International and Dover Street Market International] wanted to do it but he didn’t have the mind space at the time; they were about to open the Dover Street Market here in Paris. So we were on our own for a bit, developing the project from zero. We looked all over the Internet and tried to create the chronology. I had a young guy helping me. He kept reminding me to be patient and to continue to work on growing the book. The door was open, but we had to wait in front of the next room. So we took little steps to prepare ourselves. And stuff slowly worked out.

PS: And thank God for the Internet.

DS: Yes, because as you mentioned, there was no archive. We thought surely they’d have something in the basement. But no, that didn’t exist. At one point they sent us a list of all the perfumes so we had a clear checklist to manage. I had to become an expert.

PS: There are so many, over 100?

DS: Yeah, and at one point the CDG team was activated. It was like a machine and in the spring suddenly a load of stuff was coming. First we had to grow the grapes, then make the wine and then the grappa. And at the end, it's a really strong grappa. And so things came together, and then one day Adrian said, “All is fine, but Rei [Kawakubo] must now also approve it. This is how the system works.” But nobody had told me! So Remo met with Rei to show her the book.

PS: That’s a bit of pressure!

DS: She could have said no and we’d have to throw everything in the garbage, two years of work. There was indeed a little bit of pressure. But it was fine. She liked the book. Then at the end of this summer we met again and they asked if they could have some of the finished copies on 20 November in Tokyo. I said, “I’m sorry, what?” He was thinking that the book was finished, you know? I told him we still needed a lot of material to finish it. Sometimes it's nice though to have this pressure. It's motivating and thrilling when you finally accomplish it all.

PS: Let’s go back. How did your upbringing inform who you are?

DS: It has to do with nonconformal thinking. Most people think the same. And we’re constantly pressured as well, by everything around us to conform. You have to really fight to keep your head and so I had this upbringing with this rather eccentric mother who was absolutely nonconformistic in every way. She was resolute. Why should we follow the path of the masses? It was never my thing. Voilà.

PS: How were you in school?

DS: I was not so good at school. I was only skateboarding at that time. I was on the Swiss National Team. I even was here in Paris at a European championship when I was 15 at the Trocadero. And my mother said, “You are not going to school anymore. You need an apprenticeship. It makes no sense to send you to school any longer.” I was independent and had my first salary at 16.

PS: What were you doing?

DS: I was a carpenter making tables, chairs, all that stuff. All my friends went to high school with like 16-week holidays, while I had only four. And so it was really, really tough shit for a 16 year old. But I learned two important things. The first one was discipline; seven o'clock each day it started and lasted nine hours. And the second thing was precision; you have to do things right. People always said to me that the apprenticeship was good as I’d really use it for the rest of my life. And I always thought that was such bullshit. But actually, it's kind of true. And so anyways, the moment I finished my apprenticeship, the very last day of the last test, I went on the Interrail for one month and never went back to a carpenter shop.

PS: What’d you do after?

DS: I wrote a letter to this very super famous music guy, Claude Nobs who was organizing the Montreux Jazz Festival in Switzerland, telling him I’d like to work there that summer. I mentioned that I’d just finished my apprenticeship for carpentry. He phoned me back immediately after getting the letter. He said, “Oh you’re a carpenter? You can come right now.” He was renovating his apartment in Montreux. So I stayed and worked there alone while he was up at his chalet. I felt like Kevin McCallister from Home Alone in this completely furnished apartment. And then the festival started, and there was this guy from New York doing a large mural painting. It was Keith Haring. I had no idea who he was. We became friends. Then I met George Benson and Herbie Hancock. It started from nothing and then one thing comes, another thing comes, another thing comes. This is how I started, which is maybe not the natural way. But I was following my intuition and taking chances and putting myself out there.

PS: And you're going after what you have a passion for.

DS: I think that’s the best way to live one's life. It was like my own private art school. I met all the guys I was totally hot about. I met Joseph Beuys and told him I wanted to do an art project with him. I got his number and he told me to ask for his assistant. But I took everything for granted, what people said to me. So I had this phone number in Berlin. And I called the guy 20 times until this fucking meeting with Beuys finally happened. And we met and made a small collaboration art magazine called “Quer.” You just have to stick to the stuff.

PS: Wow. You don't still have one of those copies around, do you?

DS: I had one and I brought it to Remo at one of our meetings. Adrian saw it and immediately took it … I hope he gave it back to Remo. Adrian has a pile of my stuff that he wanted to see, so that’s good.

PS: Yeah, of any coffee table in the world for it to be displayed, his is probably in the top 10.

DS: So then I decided my dream was to be a film director. There was a film school in Berlin that I applied to. They only took about 18 people from 600. We waited all week to see this list on the wall for the final call back meeting. And my name wasn’t there. I was like, “Shit!” And then a week later, I received a letter saying I’d been accepted. Later the director told me it was clear enough with my application and the art magazine I’d sent that I’d be accepted. I don’t say this to brag. I say this to tell you that every young person that wants to go somewhere, all they have to do is fight. You have to get out of your house and your small town and your comfort zone and all that shit.

PS: I agree. So you’ve made films?

DS: I made a feature movie and went to the film festival. It was really amazing and everything, but I was not Tarantino, you know? So it’s the last semester and Tilda Swinton is supposed to teach a seminar. I really wanted to attend it. It would be the cherry on top of the cake. Then she postponed it once, then twice. The third time, I’m on the tube and there’s a woman in front of me with a newspaper that says that Tilda’s super mentor, Derek Jarman, had passed away. It’s the very Monday morning that her seminar is set to begin. And I thought, Oh shit. She’s not going to be there. But then she was there after all and it was a fantastic week. There were only five of us students and we all fell in love with her. And she fell in love with us. I’ve known her since.

PS: I can only imagine. How’d you make the transition into books?

DS: You have to find out what you're really good at. I had long discussions with this guru, an old guy who was a very diligent, very bright guy. I was really miserable, feeling directionless. He asked me why I wasn’t continuing with filmmaking. And I couldn't give him an answer. Then he said right into my face, “Probably it’s because you’re not good enough.” The message was one-hundred percent received. It was a relief; I'm not a bad person. This guy told me the truth, and I could accept it. And when you can do this, you can figure out what you actually want to do, what you’re actually good at. I started making books. I made one with another film director. And we visited Tilda at her hotel, bringing one to her as a present. As we’re knocking, I thought to myself, If I did another book focused on people in this business, it’d have to be her. And she opens the door, looks at the book and says, “Oh, I would like to have a book like this on me.”

PS: These situations seem unreal.

DS: I spent five years on her book, which was an enormous success. It included stills from all her films and launched it in different cities. Fantastic shit.

PS: And now you’ve just released this soon-to-be iconic CDG book.

DS: I've learned to be patient; things can take you years. This book with Adrian and Remo took two years and I didn’t even know if it was going to be approved! Follow your dreams as much as you can. It's not so important which dream it is exactly. If I see a step in front of me, I try to take each chance I get. This is what I wish for everybody, in whatever situation you find yourself, start to do something with nothing. This book started with just a simple idea. You can not find anything like this on the Internet, this compilation, this narrative. It’s something we had to bring together with enormous work. And here we are. I think in our digital, splattered times sometimes you have to make something which is real. That you can sit with and focus on in silence and really take time alone with it.