Isaac Dunbar Takes Our Pop Quiz
office gave Isaac an impromptu pop quiz where there are no wrong answers... except, of course, the wrong ones.
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office gave Isaac an impromptu pop quiz where there are no wrong answers... except, of course, the wrong ones.
What we don't know about pigbaby, we can glean through his music. Palindromes becomes the agent of complexity, adding dimension to the otherwise two dimensional persona. The EP is a lesson in reference art. Within the span of six tracks and twenty-five minutes, pigbaby pulls samples from YouTube videos, field recordings, flims and Irish folk music. Stiched together with crackling guitar and ambient buzzing, the record feels like a tinnitus-infused fugue memory. Though inhabiting an otherworldly sonic landscape, pigbaby invites the listener, via breadcrumb trail of lyrical and musical clues, into his inner space.
So what do we know about pigbaby?
Appreciating the irony of Vegyn in conversation with Pigbaby, we invited his friend/boss, Vegyn, real name Joe Thornalley, to ask the hard-hitting questions that only a good friend/boss can.
VEGYN–What are you wearing right now?
PIGBABY– Fluffy green shoes, pink shorts–
V– I’d say that’s more like a rouge
PB– A tank top.
V– And a big–is that a big– does that say big baby or pig baby? A big, pigbaby chain?
PB– That’s it. I didn’t think, well I didn’t know how to dress.
V–I think that’s pretty on-brand.
V– So what’s real about pigbaby? What’s the realest thing?
PB– The music.
V– And what’s the noise? What’s the fakest thing?
PB– The music.
V–Then why the anonymity. What’s its importance to you?
PB– I think anonymity is important, just for the reason that it’s fun. Because music is insufferable nowadays. I hate seeing fucking GQ videos of like “what’s in this boring musician’s suitcase?”
V– Someone was like: what if product placement was the product?
PB– Yeah and then there’s like “can this artist make a beat in six minutes?”
V– And it’s never good, across the board. It's very rarely good.
PB– I do a lot of stuff publicly with my other art and that’s all focused very much on me and my experiences and my relationship and I just don’t want it to have anything to do with that. I don’t want someone to listen to my music and be like, “oh I know that guy.” I want to just play something fun, and I think costumes are fun. I love people who do stuff in costumes, like, I love Blowfly who always performed in costume. The thing about the mask, and all the playful stuff in the videos, is like, If I was just some guy. It would just be like some dumb, depressing, cringe video, or audio where you’re like ugh they’re crying again.
V– You’re doing that in this, though.
PB– It’s more character–caricature–character, not just like there’s that guy from Oxford crying at a bus stop.
V– It’s true, they do, you know, lap it up. You can be the simp we’ve been waiting for. I simp pigbaby.
PB– Yay!
V–Can you say that, in an interview?
office– Yeah you can say that.
V– We’re stanning now. Let’s all stan pigbaby.
office– Okay, so If someone were to be a pigbaby believer, what kinds of rituals would they practice?
PB– A pigbaby believer?
office– Or whatever you call your fans.
PB– We call them piglets, actually. But, I don’t know, that’s a really hard question. Be nice to your mother and stay in school. Buy my merch.
V– That’s a really good one! He’s sticking to the cue cards.
PB– Yeah, it’s been good so far. A lot of people have been cheering and supporting. I’ve got no complaints for the piggy group.
V– I definitely love how confused everyone’s been. That’s been great.
PB– I’ve been confused, like who would listen to this kind of music anyway? But some people have been like what the fuck is it? And it doesn’t help that, like, the biggest pop star in the world somehow found pigbaby, and his fans are very, you know, people who listen to the radio.
office– Wait. Who found pigbaby?
V– The Kid Laroi. Have you seen who he’s following on Instagram? He’s following pigbaby.
PB– Only pigbaby.
V– Sow-ing the seeds of destruction.
PB– What’s that?
V– A female pig.
PB– But yeah, I would do a song with him. I like a lot of pop. I listened to Justin Bieber a lot when I was a kid, or like, I love Phoebe Bridgers.
office– So what were some of your influences for this album?
PB– I’m trying to take all of my favorite stuff and mash it up together into a pink mud, a lot of times I’m trying to remake pop songs, but I can’t really play music or sing so good, so pigbaby songs come out. At the time of the record, I was listening to a lot of ambient stuff, noise stuff, and a lot of experimental weirdo shit. I really like Graham Lambkin, I like his field recordings, I like music that isn’t “correct” by general standards, I think it shows vulnerability, raw stuff is sweet and gentle and expressive and more emotional to me. Chill Out by The KLF is my favorite record ever, and I like American Football, Slint, Aphex Twin. I like old hobo stuff, weirdo tapes by random oddballs, outsider stuff. Suffering with mental health problems my whole life, people like Daniel Johnston speak to me, I am interested in people funneling pop inspirations through their own personal experiences to make something different. You know, like, Daniel Johnston’s favorite was the Beatles, his stuff sounds nothing like them, I love that.
office– Was this your first time making music?
PB– I was DJ-ing a lot from the ages of like thirteen to twenty. I used to play in shitty nightclubs in Dublin, sometimes like three times a day. I was a club DJ, like a bad club DJ. And I’m doing some stuff for NTS. Music has always been a huge thing for me. I was working in the Warehouse project when I was like twenty living in Manchester. I was the backstage photo guy. So i got to meet like Aphex Twin and Zomby and all these cool people. So, yeah, I’ve always been influenced by music and working with artists in creative ways, but not making my own.
V– What about film? What's a movie you've watched way too much?
PB– Well the whole record is named after, and like everything is based off of a film called Palindrome. It’s amazing. It’s a film about a girl who runs away that’s being forced into an abortion, but her character is played by like five different women. One is a twelve-year-old girl and one’s like a sixty-year-old woman, and the director was trying to show that these issues affect all different types of women. It’s really good, the director is really weird. Really interesting.
V– And what does the record mean to you?
PB– It’s a heartbreak record. On the inside of the record–
Spinning the translucent, hot pink vinyl in front of the camera
PB– it says “dedicated to my first love.”
V– So what are you at heart, if Pigbaby is the facade?
PB– I’m an artist, I like to make things, all different types of things, and I like those things to tell stories, and be sweet, and take you somewhere else, that’s all that’s important to me, making things and telling stories and that’s who I am.
V– How is that conveyed through your music?
PB– The whole record is a story from beginning to end, it’s a battle between reality and fiction, between the real world and the online world, between love and heartbreak, life and death. I’m just trying to tell my story.
V– You made Palindromes during quarantine. What was your quarantine like?
PB– I was so bored and miserable. Because normally the art I do is about my interaction with other people. I do stuff with different communities and I couldn’t do any of that which was depressing. And then my partner at the time left, and I was just in London, alone. So I escaped to Mexico.
V– That’s right. And he’s been running ever since.
PB– Yep. running ever since. That was two and a half years ago. I lived in a suitcase for two and a half years and in the suitcase, I have an art studio, a music studio. Please note: office did not ask what was in pigbaby’s suitcase. This information was willingly volunteered.
V– Rabbits as well. He’s got a really big rabbit in there.
PB– It’s like a clown car.
office–Why Mexico?
PB– Cheap surgeries. I needed a BBL. I did get plastic surgery.
V– To look more like pigbaby?
PB– Exactly.
office– So, final question, who are you?
PB– Pigbaby. Oink!
Jacket and trunk MIDNIGHT STUDIOS BY SHANE GONZALES, sweater BLACKBOY KNITS, pants HERON PRESTON, shoes UGG, hat EDAS, sunglasses GENTLE MONSTER, necklace VEERT.
Where do you feel most creative?
I feel most creative by myself, away from the city, with very few people. It’s taken me years to realize there are only a few people I can work comfortably with. The most creative I’ve been in the last six months has been when I’ve gone to Pennsylvania with my close friends. We get a lot done, as far as getting in touch with one another, getting in tune with one another, and being able to communicate better.
When did you fall in love with music?
I fell in love with music very early. My parents met in a church choir; some would say I was born to sing. My mom forced me to audition for this middle school called Mark Twain, that was for the gifted and talented or whatever, but you had to audition for middle school out here in New York. I wanted to be an athletics talent or drama talent, but she forced me to audition as a vocalist. I made it, and that would be the beginning of my classical training as a vocalist. Before then I had wanted to play the piano and my mom made me play the violin,which I played from age 3 until 9. That was the beginning of my music career, but I hated it. I got so much anxiety from performing.
Sweater, shorts and bag MARSHALL COLUMBIA, cardigan R13, shoes UGG, sunglasses GENTLE MONSTER, necklace and ring SUSAN ALEXANDRA, ring VEERT.
How did you get into streaming video games?
By falling in love with basketball. Long story short: I was in the ER for three days and they played the All-Star game three times on one of those days. I had more stats memorized than I even knew what to do with. So, I started telling the drunk guys that were coming into the ER what was going to happen in the game before it happened and convinced them that I was a basketball psychic. From there, I wouldn’t look at or talk about basketball for about two months, until I met a kid in Florida that was obsessed with NBA 2K. I would watch him play and realized that I knew more player’s names than I thought. I finally played with him once, and I lost really bad. Fast forward to that following summer, and I’m watching bubble basketball - when the NBA went to Disney World because of the pandemic - because it’s the only thing on TV. And I realized I was in love with something. I became obsessed. The moment the season ended, and LeBron James won his fourth ring, I bought 2K.
If you could only play one video game for the rest of your life, what would it be?
League of Legends... There’s so much to learn. I know people that have been playing for ten years, and they are still trying to get better. There’s just always room to improve. I started playing recently; I’m a noob but I’m working to get better. If I had to pick a game to play for the rest of my life it would be this game for that reason.
Left: jacket MIDNIGHT STUDIOS BY SHANE GONZALES, sweater BLACKBOY KNITS, pants HERON PRESTON, hat EDAS, sunglasses GENTLE MONSTER, necklace VEERT. Right: shirt MARSHALL COLUMBIA, jacket HERON PRESTON, pants LUAR, shoes UGG, sunglasses GENTLE MONSTER, ring SUSAN ALEXANDRA.
What are some rituals before you perform?
I pace a lot. I do a lot of breathing. I’m late to soundcheck.
That’s interesting.
Um yeah, for a while I was bringing the video games on stage with me. One thing I’d always do is pray. No seriously, like for something to happen beyond what I had planned for. A big part of my sets was trying to improvise all the time. No matter who I was performing with, I was always trying to find some space to get that form of expression in. I don’t practice enough but I would practice on stage.
You started a podcast with VFiles, how did that come about?
It started when I applied for their grant. That was during the end of 2020, beginning of 2021. My whole plan was to roll out a project on a music video’s budget. They really believed in me. They still do. That project has yet to come out, but I think we built something in 2022 that is even more expansive than we anticipated. I’ve done music all my life, but I am finding new forms of inspiration because I am surrounded by such a variety of diverse creatives. Bringing them together in any capacity brings me joy, and this podcast is the platform through which I’ve been finding new ways to do so.
What do you talk about on the podcast?
It’s everything. The past couple of conversations we’ve had have been focused on the visual arts, gallery spaces, the similarities between that industry and the music industry. The idea is to have a rotation of community leaders, performance artists, visual artists, and musicians. We want to invite people to witness how music can be made at any point and time, anywhere. I came to VFILES with the idea of making a show out of everything that I like to do when I’m not working on my music. I want to create a forum for anyone with a story to share it, and I’m grateful VFILES has given us their platform to have these conversations.
What are you manifesting now?
The success of this show. It feels like a rebirth, it feels like a second chance to do what I always wanted to do. Put people on who I think are creative and give people a space for them to do what they want, talk about what they want. I always felt like I was trying to sell people on an idea that didn’t exist, and now it exists in a way I didn’t imagine it would.
Jacket and pants WINNIE, shoes UGG, sunglasses GENTLE MONSTER, necklaces VEERT.
What cartoon world would you choose to live in for a week?
Hmm. My mind is going to horrible places right now. The first place my mind went to was, Hey Arnold but I don’t want to fuck anybody in Hey Arnold. Maybe a show full of adults.
But I like Hey Arnold for you.
I like Hey Arnold for me too; I think that would be crazy. I know exactly what my character would be.
What was the first record you ever bought or was gifted?
It was either a BB King Best-Of CD; or it was John Legend’s debut album. But I think before that I got a John Mayer CD, ‘Room for Squares’ from my best friend’s mom.
What was it like growing up in Brooklyn for you?
It was a beautiful time, getting to be a part of so many cultures. All my friends are from different places. Brooklyn is different. I was a church going mix kid. I was confusing and confused. Like my cousins were from the South, I’d go there every summer and every Christmas, whether it was Maryland, Atlanta, or North Carolina. I’d get into my athletic bag or be able to watch MTV - because my parents were super strict. That’s where I’d be able to play NBA 2K and I would suck. But I’d get back to New York and I was that kid in the gifted and talented program that you can beat up on. I’ve dealt with my bullies early on in life. Now, wherever I go I try to change the culture a little bit, Brooklyn gives you the opportunity to do that every day.
Left: shirt HERON PRESTON, jacket MONCLER X DINGYUN ZHANG, shorts R13, sunglasses GENTLE MONSTER, ring VEERT. Right: Sweater BLACKBOY KNITS, pants HERON PRESTON, hat EDAS, sunglasses GENTLE MONSTER.
Do you remember the last gift you gave someone?
I gave my dad a Barbra Streisand record for either Father’s Day or Christmas.
I can tell you are very much into classic music.
Yeah, I love the divas. My dad is into all of it, so I’ve heard all of it.
Do you usually bring your weed and video games everywhere you go?
Almost everywhere. The PS4 was a security blanket for a while, I’ve calmed down with it since I started live-streaming. Weed is a thing I like to keep on me. The basketball and basketball sneakers have become the starter pack as well. And some form of change of clothes, charcoal toothpaste and toothbrush.
Song: Left 4 Read - Julian Soto (prod. Devin England)
Anything upcoming you want people to know about?
Yup! Catch us at Ryan Bock’s ‘I’m Not Funded by the CIA’ NYC exhibition at Ki Smith Gallery until June 24th. Then on July 15th I’m opening up for Raina Sokolov-Gonzalez at Public Records. It should be a sick time. I’m not exactly sure what I’m going to do but I know whatever she’s going to do will be amazing! But before, on the 18th of June I’m performing at EL Barrio’s Artspace PS109. It’s something my father’s non-profit put together celebrating black possibility. Come out if you’re in New York, or follow me on Twitch to see us wherever we are, doing whatever we’re doing, whenever we go live.
Do you believe that all good art comes from pain?
Art is beauty and pain. We never have one without the other.
How do you feel like you’ve grown or changed since your last album to this one, and where do you feel like you’ve stayed true to the core essence of Lykke Li?
I’m trying my best to constantly grow and change, peeling back layers of the onion. For me the more I grow and evolve the more myself I become. It’s all circular.
What is the core essence of Lykke Li?
A friend once described me as the strongest softest person they know, I feel that’s pretty accurate.
What was the process of making this album like?
I’ve never been more immersed, my studio was in my bedroom so I was breathing, living, dreaming it. I’ve never been as close to my collaborators before either. It was all very meta and every door you would open would lead to another. I will look back at this time as being the most precious time of my career.
Your work, especially here, is so emotional— is it entirely cathartic for you, or is it ever triggering?
It’s completely cathartic, after a journey like this you end up someone else, somewhere else. It’s very spiritual and mystical.
How do you practice self-care— both within the creative process, and personally?
When you are working so intensely on something it’s really the opposite of self care, you don’t sleep, you drink liters of cold brew, sitting down for hours and hours… I’m still super busy with creating the show etc so really the only time of self care is in my bathtub and when I’m meditating.
What, production-wise and musically, do you feel like you’ve done differently with this project?
I opened the door to a completely new landscape and I’m really interested in creating worlds without vocals and just let the synthesizers do the crying.
What is the story or meaning behind the visuals that accompany this album, which were presented at the listening?
It’s a meta love story, a movie within a movie, a play between female fantasy and reality. In a way I'm also trying to showcase the internal, neurological cycle of love that happens hormonally. It’s multidimensional. What you’re seeing is basically my love addiction and the repetition I have been stuck in for most of my career.