Isaac Dunbar Takes Our Pop Quiz
office gave Isaac an impromptu pop quiz where there are no wrong answers... except, of course, the wrong ones.
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office gave Isaac an impromptu pop quiz where there are no wrong answers... except, of course, the wrong ones.
WILL wears JACKET by ACNE STUDIOS, JUMPER by ZADIG ET VOLTAIRE, TROUSERS by ACNE STUDIOS, BOOTS by ISABEL MARANT, GLOVES from CONTEMPORARY WARDROBE
OLIVIA wears JACKET by ISSEY MIYAKE from 18.01 ARCHIVE, TOP and DRESS by ZADIG ET VOLTAIRE, TROUSERS by VIVIENNE WESTWOOD, BOOTS b ACNE STUDIOS, GLOVES from CONTEMPORARY WARDROBE
As teenagers, the sibling duo began songwriting as a form of expressive therapy. Quickly realizing that their pastime could become a legitimate career, they never looked back. Their first song of 2023, "Petals on the Moon", offers a glimpse into their most developed sound yet. Olivia's ethereal vocals are accompanied by an upbeat jazz orchestra track, evoking a playful yet poignant tone reminiscent of Mitski.
Their fan base is growing up alongside them, finding solace in their honest expression as they navigate the challenges of adolescence. The duo explains, "We are expressing ourselves in a way that will hopefully make us understand ourselves more. If our music resonates with them, that's amazing, and if it doesn't, that's okay."
This "take it or leave it" attitude sets them apart; making music for the sake of music is a rare find these days. office had the opportunity to sit down with Will and Olivia to discuss the art of honest songwriting, the revelation that came from hearing "Hey Jude" for the first time, and the importance of their sibling bond.
WILL wears JACKET, COATS, TROUSERS by SAINT LAURENT, T-SHIRT by SUNSPEL, BOOTS by ISABEL MARANT, NECKLACE is talent’s own, BROOCHES from stylist’s archive
OLIVIA wears JACKET, TOP, SKIRT, AND HEELS by SAINT LAURENT, TIGHTS by FALKE, BROOCHES from stylist’s archive
Just to start us off, give me a brief overview of the genre/ genres of music you guys make?
Olivia Hardy— I would probably say it's a fusion of classical, jazz, and alternative, but I think the main thing we've always said is that we’ve never really known how to place our music. There’s never been an intention to place it as indie or alternative or whatever- it's quite organic in that we’ve pulled a bunch of influences from really classical pieces, to Queen to the Beatles and sort of fused it with the sounds we knew growing up. And William was really heavily jazz influenced so I think it all came together in one alternative mess.
Will Gao— Yeah, I think alternative mess is a good one. I think we see it as a kaleidoscope of influences and see it through a beam of contemporary pop. But all of the influences come from a kaleidoscope of like loads of different things, and things that I think a lot, a lot of the time we are completely unaware of when were making the art, which is the fun thing about it, you don't really know what the influences are but you know they're there.
I think that your guys' sound doesn't fit into one genre and I don't think it should. You do a really good job at this because you're so young and because you're learning about music as you're growing- your music is just ever evolving which makes it so interesting. Did you guys have a musical upbringing and what was that like?
WG— Yeah, for sure. I think we both have our own differences in our musical upbringing. Obviously we're siblings so there's a lot of similarities there. We both learned pieces and musical instruments from a young age. Olivia learned violin, I learned piano, I grew up in a classical boys choir. Olivia would you agree that you learned pop slightly earlier than I did?
OH— Yeah for sure. We were both very classically trained. Over the years it was very “this is the song to play, this is the technique to learn, and this is the scale to master, and then I think we really started to focus more on music we liked to listen to which was pop stuff, and I think pop music came to me when I was 12 or 13 when I downloaded Spotify and started to listen to real music from there. And then we started to discover new sounds like rap, and R&B, and soul. And then growing up we had a lot of our dad’s music like queen CD and electric light music orchestra and things like that.
WG— I remember specifically the moment, you know that roundabout Olivia, with that ugly ass building we would pass as kids and we listened to Hey Jude for the first time? I just remember that moment thinking, Oh, just because these guys are singing and it's kind of rock and roll and pop, that's still as respected and as soothing and makes me feel just as much as this classical music does when I'm at school or at college.
That sense of connection was a big moment to me. Because we always knew them as separate. Dancing to Queen was very different from learning something on the piano. I was like, if music is all one world, then it's like, what? It was insane.
The possibilities are endless from there. Olivia, was there a song or like an artist for you that made you feel that switch?
OH— I think the realization that William was talking about came to me a lot later, because I always saw pop and singing karaoke as more of a recreational thing to do in my free time. And classical music practice was hard to get into the discipline of doing, and then it wasn't until quite recently that I began to appreciate how much they play into each other. But in terms of early, early influence I would say Billie Eilish probably.
WG— What about Taylor Swift?
OH— Let's not go there — every journalist we talked to was like “she LOVES Taylor Swift '' — I was like what's going on? No, that's not a huge influence for me, I think I said that once. The direction I like to go is really honest songwriting. A lot of old R&B and soul like Ms. Lauryn Hill.
WILL wears JACKET, COATS, TROUSERS by SAINT LAURENT, T-SHIRT by SUNSPEL, BOOTS by ISABEL MARANT, NECKLACE is talent’s own, BROOCHES from stylist’s archive
OLIVIA wears JACKET, TOP, SKIRT, AND HEELS by SAINT LAURENT, TIGHTS by FALKE, BROOCHES from stylist’s archive
Was there a shift for you guys that you realized you could make music as a career and something more than a hobby or more than the classical training you were raised on?
WG— Yeah. For sure. I think there were those moments of seeing live shows or discovering the art of songwriting and how much of a freeing and positive experience it was. Certainly for me, I felt it was such a liberating thing, songwriting is like therapy and I was like, Oh shit people get to do this therapeutic thing and get to call it a job? It's crazy!
OH— I was always inspired by live performances. I'd go and see and like the interaction in a room. I just thought it was insane and spiritual and just like a crazy unifying experience and every time I go it would be the same feeling so I guess I was so chasing that. And then the recording side of it is just like, yeah a complete creative space that I guess at first is just a hobby but then really grew into something became a thing to do for us.
Who would be your musical influences now that you pull inspiration from?
WG— Right now, I’d say in the past week it has been Benjamin Bretton - he's a classical composer from the last century, and his melodies and his darkness are just quite twisted and I kinda love that. And I’d have to say Paul McCartney has always been a big influence but certainly more so recently.
OH— I mean recently I've been getting back onto my autumnal playlists, so Nick Drake, Mitski’s new album. I was having a conversation about her the other day and how she’s almost musical theater like she's so alternative and performative and I really love the way she makes stuff like that. A lot of Beatles as well right now.
WG— I think it's good to say that these are the influences that we like right now and they're ever evolving, as you said Colleen, and it's going to be ongoing.
Even songs that I listened to just a few months ago, I feel like I might not like now- and that's good, that means my music taste is evolving.
OH— Yeah the playlists that I make never really regurgitate songs, I sort of associate songs with certain periods of time but some of the really good ones will carry over.
I want to go into your guys' backgrounds, being both British and having East Asian heritage. How do you guys try to translate that into your sound?
WG— Yeah, I think it's kind of a thing where it's inherent in all of our experiences and it's kind of been a day to day thing our whole life. For me personally, it was something I kind of ignored but I felt it was there. And the awakening to the experience of not quite being home in either place or feeling misfit came to the forefront during the time I discovered song writing.
So I think it's a part of all of our music because a lot of our lyrics are about our personal experiences and a lot about the adolescent experience. There's a lot of angst, there's a lot of new experience from growing up so our mixed heritage and that diversity is gonna be all over that.
OH— Yeah whenever we’re asked that question, I kinda look back on the western music I was raised on and the western pop music all that. I don't think there was ever a specific sound of the far east that was incorporated into our music because it really is quite influenced by Queen and the classical stuff.
But something that I noticed recently is that there's a pentatonic scale which is used everywhere that is actually traditionally associated with the far east and harp instruments. I noticed even in the studio there is this one scale I kept repeating and I had no idea where it was from. I just thought it was really cool.
How did you figure out that it was associated with Eastern music?
OH— It's used in a lot of traditional folk songs, but there was this one time a few months ago when I was really geeking out on cultures associated with scales. Like Middle Eastern scales, oriental scales, and Irish folk scales and how they all intertwine. It's really interesting how you associate cultures with sounds.
I find that your lyrics are very well thought out and very weighted. When you are pulling lyrics together, do you usually pull from general ideas or like, personal experiences with love, relationships,and growing up?
WG— This is where me and Olivia slightly differ. For me it’s very in the moment, so when lyrics are coming out in real time in complete rawness and openness and like, it's just gluing the page with all these thoughts and feelings. It's normally the song that attaches to the lyric, which attaches to the thought, and it all becomes one.
And I think Olivia, you can say for yourself — but I think that the beauty is when Olivia tries to structure those kinds of thoughts and feelings. Especially with a new song that is coming out, it was very much a stewing and Olivia was like, lets edit this and synthesize these ideas and feelings together. And does so while still understanding me as a person and the craft of songwriting.
OH— Yeah, I mean, like you just described, there's a balance between being really honest and really broad with how you feel about and then making it into something that people are really going to resonate with. There's like a fine line between just like, blurting something and then from that raw idea, shaping it into something more refined and maybe even poetic.
WG— I think that's the best part about our collaboration is that fine line and that balance. Because, i don't know, word vomit is good, but it's also quite disorganized. And there’s glimpses of that in our music but also being quite refined and structured in your songwriting is key.
WILL wears JACKET, COATS, TROUSERS by SAINT LAURENT, T-SHIRT by SUNSPEL, BOOTS by ISABEL MARANT, NECKLACE is talent’s own, BROOCHES from stylist’s archive
OLIVIA wears JACKET, TOP, SKIRT, AND HEELS by SAINT LAURENT, TIGHTS by FALKE, BROOCHES from stylist’s archive
Do you think that it's easier or harder, because you're siblings, to be honest with each other about where the direction of a song is going?
WG— Oh yeah, I think it's much easier. We’re very honest with each other. I don't think I'd be comfortable doing it with many other people. It’s such a weird thing songwriting, we both get to such vulnerable places whilst doing it. Understanding how challenging it is sometimes to share songs that are so very personal.
Another thing I wanted to note is that your lyrics touch on a lot of very raw and real topics that a lot of your listeners your age are going through.What's the main message you want your listeners to take away from your music?
OH— I don't know if there’s a message to be honest, I just want them to feel good when they hear it. I mean you can preach messages and honesty and stuff and I think a lot of artists these days preach being honest with how you feel and being authentic and everything.
But I don't know, I think even myself as a fan of other people who tell me to be authentic, it's really easy to over think how true to yourself and how honest you're being with yourself about your feelings. I think the easiest thing is just listen to music and feel what you do and have a natural reaction to it.
WG— I don't know if there's any particular message, it's just we are expressing ourselves in a way that will hopefully make us understand ourselves more. And if they resonate with that frequency that's amazing and if they dont thats okay. We’re not trying to preach our music, it's just a way to express our feelings and get a bit closer to that frequency.
Yeah, it's very much like this is how I feel, take it or leave it.
WG— Exactly.
Olivia, what was it like hearing the song “ur so pretty” on Heartstopper? And this was the song originally written for the show?
OH— It was never written with the show in mind. It was written a long, long time ago, originally for nobody but myself and I shared it with a couple of friends. It became something that we recorded on the EP because we thought it was a beautiful song that deserved its own recording.
And as William was saying before- it was a very personal thing that I created out of expressing myself and it just really really resonated with a lot of people and when it was on the show. I think it was just an amazing sync and the way it was done it was able to resonate with a lot more people and reach a much broader audience.
So what's next for the Wasia Project?
WG— Well in the next few weeks there's going to be some live studio session recordings of us being put out and that's what people can look forward to. And then there's another song… maybe.
Got it — we will stay tuned for that!
As James Blake performed the entire album from start to finish, the immersive experience unfolded within the iconic Tate Modern, offering the perfect setting for the eager audience. While his music consistently pushes boundaries, taking the industry by storm, the artist takes it a step further by providing complementary short films. office had the opportunity to chat with Crowns & Owls and The Reids, delving into the art direction that played an integral role in shaping the experience.
What was your inspiration behind the visuals that were presented at the Tate?
Crowns & Owls— What was special about the Tate show was having an album campaign’s worth of work in one room. Typically in our careers, so little of what we do exists in the physical. It goes off into the digital ether and that’s that. If you’re lucky you’ll get to hold a vinyl record at the end — and that’s if you’re working with one of the increasingly rarefied artists who releases any of their music physically. To be in an actual room full of actual people surrounded by actual evidence of a journey you’ve been at the helm of; that’s a lovely thing. Everything we showed on that night was work from the Playing Robots Into Heaven journey.
It’s hard to pin down an inspiration really… we’ve seen a bit of discourse online citing Bergman, Tarkovsky… neither of those guys came up in our idea development phase to be totally honest, but that’s deeply flattering stuff and we’ll take any comparisons to those masters all day long. Thibaut Grevet was an amazing partner as his work is so timeless, and that’s exactly what we felt this record needed. The central visual theme of the record depicts James crossing landscapes as part of a procession of people, with an analogue synth/sculptural tannoy mounted on his back. We loved the idea of the collective nature of dance music being conveyed through this strange pilgrimage, this bringing together of people, transcending as a group.
The Reids— We wanted to make a film with James that visualized his creative process in a way that felt both abstract and elevated. It was a perfect pairing — he was very open with us about his approach to music making and his words inspired our approach for capturing the spirit of the synthesizer that makes up this record. Everything hinged around this apparition we created that in our heads was the heart of “the synth” — and it weaves itself around James and his world.
Another film shown at the Tate was a conversation we captured between James and Brian Eno — two of the biggest names in UK music. Being privy to a conversation between these two titans was a fascinating chance to pick up some wisdom and enjoy watching two friends talk about work and life in a film that feels like a modern day music equivalent of Hitchcock / Truffaut, which was the main inception point for that whole piece.
What was the initial thought process when conceptualizing the experience?
C & O— For us, great records build worlds, and that’s what we tried to do with PRIH. There was such a high volume of work made for this project, and where we ended up tonally had such fine art sensibilities about it, that even on the sets of the several shoots around the record, both us and our collaborators got very excited about the thought of putting the stuff in a gallery. It just felt right. When in 2023 do you get to walk around a room and look at work connected to an album? We had sculpture, photography and film all coexisting, and the Tate’s tank space felt like the perfect austere backdrop for all of it. It just feels nice to celebrate something musical in a different way, and we were very lucky in having a partner like Bowers & Wilkins who were so gracious and supportive of that vision.
What is something that you hope for the audience to take away after viewing?
C & O— To us, it’s just about celebrating the power of albums, and the importance of them. In the age of increasing emphasis on viral singles that exist very much as their own entities, you have to wonder if we’re slowly losing a platform from which artists can be storytellers, connecting various themes and points to take their audience on a cohesive journey. So that… and the feeling that James Blake is indeed cool as fuck…
T R— From the Brian and James film, we hope it’s equally enlightening and entertaining — the two of them bounced off each other fantastically well and there are some genuinely funny moments in that film. From the documentary piece, we hope it shows how vulnerability during the conception and execution of an idea is very important if you hope to impart any sort of sincerity into what you’re making: James talks about how nervous he was to put a record like Playing Robots out there — and if someone like James still gets those anxiety pangs over making work, anyone else who knows what that feels like should take them as a sign to perceiver as they’re doing something fresh rather than shy away from them to the safety of well-trodden ground. He was a true pleasure to work with.
Since 2020, Midwxst (his real name is Edgar) has been making brutally honest tracks that are sparked with fried, hyperpop beats. Sometimes they're loud, sometimes they're cocky — and at all times, they give the feeling as though you're looking in the mirror with him. Lately, though, he's been trying out a new sound. On his latest debut album, E3, he's simply doing whatever feels right for the song. Throughout its twelve tracks, there are saxophone solos, vocals lent by Ye's Sunday Service choir, and an interlude by his grandparents. But, change or not, he's continued to keep the one thing that's made him resonate with millions of listeners, particularly those who see him as a channel for their emotions: he's still just as honest.
Eventually, Midwxst ended up coming online, though it wasn't for long. He'd reacted to a meme someone posted. ("This looked like sum else crazy.") But this had been enough for the group, one that was full of people who wanted to be like him, who really liked his music — and all around wanted to be in a space for him, even if it was virtual. It would be a few days later before he would come on again, but, like always, they had been fine waiting for him, too. Until then, they had talked for hours, sometimes about school or other rappers they liked, but mostly, it was all about him.
office caught up with Midwxst to talk about coming-of-age albums, his upcoming E3 tour, and AI.
I’ve been hanging out on your Discord server lately, and I have to say –– it’s a really interesting community. You’ve got people talking about you, drawing you, recording music together that’s inspired by you... When you made the server, was it always your intention to have this kind of space?
Not really. I kinda just made it for me and my friends to mess around in, and then it kind of just ended up growing into something bigger. I always wanted to have, like, a hub of people who were interested in what I was interested in, or cared about music to the same extent that I cared about music, and that was one way for me to make that possible without it being this insane, crazy effort. Over time, it’s just been mad people joining –– like it’s almost at 10,000 people. (It’s now at 10,000.) That’s crazy to me.
I read that when you were first starting out, you were in Discord servers recording with other people. Is this server a lot like the ones you were in?
100%. I think it’s an all-around, full-circle moment because it’s like, I used to be in these environments and now I’m able to create this environment to nurture art and creativity, and it’s just so cool to me.
Let’s talk about E3. Obviously, every artist dreams of putting out their debut album, but for you it was a little different. You didn’t just want to make an album; you wanted to make a universe. Tell me a little bit about that universe?
I wanted to make a universe ‘cause all the influences and things I take in –– outside of being an artist, but as an avid listener –– have been experiences and coming-of-age experiences. Like, for example, you look at My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy by Kanye [Ye], Call Me If You Get Lost by Tyler [the Creator], Utopia by Travis [Scott]…Those are things you can build sonic pallets from. You can envision all of these albums and what they look like, not just off the sonics, but how they’re packaged altogether. So I wanted to try to emulate that intimacy and experience because I feel like it gets overlooked nowadays. A lot of people now are just looking for that hit song or that one song that’ll take the whole record everywhere. But you don’t need to do all of that when you can be well-executed and let your story tell through that. That’s the stuff that I really wanted to speak for itself.
That’s what I wanted people to resonate with and really feel. The best way you can get that is by sitting down and making the whole universe. So you actually wrote lyrics for the first time here? It’s interesting because it’s been said that a lot of rappers don’t actually write anymore. Yeah, I don’t be writing. I mean, I’ll write, like, starters and then after that I’ll freestyle the rest of whatever topic I was thinking of. That’s how I’ve always made music. This is the first time I’ve sat down and been like, ‘Dang, this beat is too pretty to say nonsense over it.’ I gotta make sure I give it justice.
Do you punch in?
I do punch in, but I be punching in in chunks. So it’s like, if I can’t get a line once, then I’ll do the line before it and then that line again to help me get acquainted with it, and then I’ll do that again for the next one and the next one, and we’ll end up building the song from that. But half the time bro, I just be saying shit –– I’m not gonna lie. I’m able to phrase my words well enough, though, so that it works.
Did you make this album in LA?
Yeah.
I saw one of those “Overrated/Underrated” videos you did, and you said LA was overrated. Just curious: how was it making an album in a city that wasn’t really your favorite?
Bro, making the album was the best part of the city, I’ll be so forreal. I’m just not really a big party person and a culture person –– like I’m not overtly outside. And that’s what all my friends or all the people I know in LA do. And it’s like, ya’ll don’t get tired? Ya’ll don’t ever wanna sleep? But at the same time, I also love the city, too –– not even LA, but just Cali. I love being there when it’s not a pain in the ass, if that makes sense. Everytime I’m out there, there seems to be some small thing and it's directly caused by people, and it’s like, I could avoid that by staying here in New York.
Back in 2021, you did an interview with NME to hype up your first tour, and you told them you were excited to perform live because you had songs that “make people want to punch each other in the face.” With E3, where do the songs fall concert-wise?
They were made for that space. I’m touring with a band, so I have a guitarist, a drummer, lights… I haven’t had all of this before. So, it’s something that’s scary, but it’s also exciting. I have a really good setlist, I been rehearsing, eating my veggies, cleansing and getting anything bad out my system. All these songs were made to be played live, and that’s another reason why it’s like –– a lot of people can listen to the music and take away what they want, but until you really feel it… Like, for example, if you just got broken up with and you come to this show, you’re gonna cry. You feel me? Like, that’s what I wanna do: I wanna make someone cry. But then it’s like, don’t forget––I still know how to get turnt.
This tour’s gonna include some special guests. Can you say who they are?
Denzel Curry in LA, Skywater in New York… But I have a bunch of my friends coming, like Caspar Sage, the supporting act, he’s literally one of the most amazing up-and-coming R&B artists that I’ve heard. No glazing –– like, no dickriding, either. It’s me from a completely constructive, music-listener stand point. Like, I get the same energy that Frank had when he first came out, and I ain’t never had that feeling toward somebody in music before. I don’t like revealing too much of who the special guests are, but I like telling people like, “Yo, come to the show. You’ll see what happens.” Every show is different. I might play an unreleased song in Utah, might not in Arkansas. But that’s what you gotta do. You gotta pop out.
Let’s be honest: lately, artist merchandise has gone downhill. Not only is it expensive, but it also sucks. On the other hand, a lot of people (even those that don’t listen to your music) seem to resonate with yours. What were the inspirations behind some of the looks?
With a lot of the designs I put out, I think about if I’d wear this or not. When I made those sweater vests? Those were crazzzy to me ‘cause I always wanted a sweater vest. Seeing people buy them and wear them, too, that was the type of stuff that’s crazy to me. Everything I put out is something I would dress myself in or put on in a day-to-day fashion. I think that’s a perspective a lot of people don’t have. A lot of the time, they just make stuff that they think will sell because the audience listens to them, but it’s just like, "Ehhhh." Imma just make my stuff, Imma just do me.
You tweeted about this a couple days ago, but I wanted to get your take on it here. How do you feel about being turned into an AI?
Yo, no, it’s crazy to me. So my friend sent me a YouTube video, and he was like, “Yo, you on this DC the Don song?” And I was like, “No?” So he sends me the video, and I hear my voice, and they got my nasally-ass tone right, and I was like, ‘Wait a minute? This is a little too accurate.’ So I talked to the guy who ended up making it and he was like, “Yeah! I uploaded your whole discography and isolated some things from your voice to try to get the tone of your voice right, and then the AI made this––” and I was like, “You have so much free time my brother.” But that’s crazy. Like the thing with me, I’ll be like, “Oh, that’s cool. Burn it.” Like, I’ll acknowledge it, but I don’t think AI is something that should exist at all, ‘cause it’s just gonna end up being humanity’s worst decision.
I know you’re on TikTok, so I’m sure you’ve seen videos of, like, Plankton singing “PoundTown” or whatever. What if someone were to post Plankton singing one of your songs? Would you be flattered?
Nah, it would be flattering. I would repost it.
My last question for you: where does the E3 universe go from here?
I feel like right now, it’s a very beautiful time in my life. I have direction and a sense of what’s next, but at the end of the day, I’m not rushing anything. I’m just making sure I have everything lined up. Once this next release starts –– boom, it’s like a domino effect on everything else I’ve been doing. I’m just very excited ‘cause the bar is all the way up here now. I’ve always wanted to constantly keep setting the bar for myself, and it’s really about just working until I’m satisfied with where I’m at again. I think that's the best payoff when you finish a really good song or project, and it’s like a breath of fresh air. It’s like, “Ah, I can rest a little bit.” And then the next thing you know, it’s on to the next.