Isaac Dunbar Takes Our Pop Quiz
office gave Isaac an impromptu pop quiz where there are no wrong answers... except, of course, the wrong ones.
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office gave Isaac an impromptu pop quiz where there are no wrong answers... except, of course, the wrong ones.
Spears’ in-your-face (literally), ruthlessly provocative mystique has grown to be such an integral part of his aesthetic makeup, that by the time you make it to the door (if you manage to get that far), the already-potent I-don’t-know-what-I’m-in-for anxiety has hardened into something molten, and it’s bound to begin to show. It’s exactly this that Kendre Swinton, Spears’ longtime friend-slash-manager, must be picking up on, when — standing across from me in the foyer with a mischievous grin — he asks me to make my best guess as to what Spears is like in person.
Necklace R13, bracelets MARTINE ALI and BERNARD JAMES
Spears’ music, a primary focus of his over the past few months, is cut from a similar cloth to his unforgiving aesthetic. In the two singles he’s released in tandem with Shayne Oliver’s Anonymous Club, his voice rattles into a growl, yelling itself hoarse through half-threatening, half-obscure mantras like “hold my motherfucking cock,” on Hollywood Meltdown, or “all these n***as are bleeding out,” on Bleedinout. He performs on stage with the same high-energy, punk-informed hardcore penchant that defines his public-facing persona — whether donning a mohawk and a leather jacket, or spaghetti straps and a skirt, everything comes out of him in grand, roaring fashion, leaving only the question I’m sweating in this Brooklyn high-rise to hopefully find an answer to: what is “everything”? With my only hints being his obscurely glorious, carnal creative footprint, I have just as many leads now as when I didn’t know who Izzy Spears even was.
Moments after Swinton gets the question off, a teasing whistle comes from the top of a winding staircase, and it looks like it’s time for answers. Today, Spears is fresh off of an international tour with Yves Tumor, a frequent collaborator now helping him to piece together his upcoming debut musical project. For all it seems, the non-stop work isn’t near finished. When Swinton and I are led to an expansive, sunlit suite, we’re greeted by a pair of studio headphones sprawled out on a cowskin rug, a switched-off TV, and Spears’ spiked leather boots, which lay glamorous claim to the sense that, although the tour is over, the show must go on. Even the pets are busy — for most of our interview, a rugged black cat is intently swiping away at doomed houseflies on a window.
For a proven multi-hyphenate like Spears, being a busybody is somewhat on-brand. At 24, he’s been handpicked by Shayne Oliver to take part in the aforementioned creative powerhouse Anonymous Club, and mastered a raucous stage presence as unnerving as it is enticing. These days, he’s on to the next challenge — his first ever sonic release — and although he throws me a simple “no,” when I ask him if he’s scared of anything, it isn’t as though the road ahead is a certain one. On a humid Friday morning in June, Spears opens up about people’s opinions of him (spoiler alert: he doesn’t care), motivation, and the art of just doing it.
Jacket and Pants Y/PROJECTS, Shoes BOBBY DAY NYC, Headpiece and Mask STYLIST’S OWN
Samuel Hyland – Post-tour, can we do an existential check-in? Where is Izzy at in life right now?
Izzy Spears – Resting, but also, the work hasn’t stopped. I’m doing Boiler Room, I’m doing this [interview], I have a studio session, [and] right when we leave, I have to go around the corner to work on my set… so, yeah. I’m just more ready than ever to put my project out. We’ve been working on shit for months. I’ve been working on this EP since November. Been working on videos, working on a bunch of shit. So I’m just ready to put it out and go to the next step, which is touring some more. I’m super tired, but I feel like I haven’t earned a full vacation yet.
“Earned”… that’s interesting. What do you feel like you have to do to “earn” a full vacation?
Reach my goals. I skipped a couple levels. My EP’s not out, I haven’t been on a [headline] tour — those are all goals. But I think the main goal is just feeling the accomplished feeling of putting out my first project, and living my project. That’s, like, the main goal. And even after it comes out, I feel like more goals will open up. So I’m not really planning, or seeing, a vacation moment in my future anytime soon. Not next year.
Necklace R13, bracelets HANREJ and MARTINE ALI
You have a lot of avenues that you release creativity in. Did they all kind of come around the same time, or did they each grow as you came into your own as a creative?
IS – My brother had a rap group when I was a kid, and I was always writing raps to try and get him to let me in the group. He never did. But I started making music in high school with a couple of friends. As I got older, I started throwing parties called the ‘House of Lotus’ in Atlanta. Once I started curating those parties, people started asking me to help with casting. [From] that, production opportunities came up, and I started working on sets. As I got more experienced, I took a break from music and started working on production, and managing someone else, and then casting. And then last year, or the year before that, I just completely stopped casting to work on music. For the first year, it was just trying to figure out who would take me seriously enough. And then Anonymous Club came through, and we worked on a couple singles. But Anonymous Club was working on multiple projects with multiple artists, and there wasn’t enough focus on me specifically. So I took it upon myself to leave and go to LA, and just get away from everything I was doing. As soon as I got there, I started hanging out with Yves [Tumor] a lot more, and he put me in the face of all my producers now, and everyone who’s helping me. Things started happening as I got older, but since I was younger, I knew. I dropped out in the tenth grade. I checked out in the seventh grade. Not that I knew it was gonna happen, but I knew that this was the direction I was going in. I got face tattoos as insurance. Like, I’m not ever gonna be no cashier, or at a desk, or some shit like that. So it’s like I have to… not like I have to, but just ensuring that I’m going to follow this route. Kind of like forcing myself to achieve what I want.
Shirt TELFAR, Jeans WILLY CHAVARRIA, Shoes BOBBY DAY NYC, Necklaces HANREJ and MARTINE ALI, Bracelets MARTINE ALI; Top YOUTHS IN BALACLAVA, Shorts DIESEL, Boots HOOD BY AIR, Jewelry MARTINE ALI
You mentioned feeling like you weren’t being taken seriously, and I wonder if that’s still true to an extent?
Yes and no. I mean, I’m doing it. I’m doing everything I set my mind to. Whether I’m being taken seriously or not, I’m gonna do it still. For now, if you aren’t gonna take me seriously, I’m just gonna go somewhere else and find the people that believe in it for real.
Is it your goal at any level to be taken seriously?
I don’t give a shit if you take me seriously. It’s not really a goal. I feel like wanting people to take you seriously – and for that to be a goal – defeats the purpose of doing it for yourself. You can miss the train, but we goin’.
In that case, how much would you say your music is for you, and how much would you say it’s for your consumers?
Well, this EP specifically is very cryptic and very personal. It’s all for me. I love all the songs. They’re not Anonymous Club songs, so maybe they’re not what people are fully expecting. But it is fully, fully personal. Personal, but designed for consumers.
If you could choose between hating the record and having it sell, or loving the record and having it flop…
[Laughs] The charts. Money. I could keep making shit for me all the time. But I want to make hits. I want to be a pop star. A lot of people want to be cool, and they want to make cool music that their friends would love — and that’s cool, I want to make music that my friends would love — but there’s a goal to be successful. And you can define success in different ways, but my version of success is charts… endorsements… money.
At least you admit it.
I’m not ashamed of it. I come from dirt poor. Mom got eight kids. All of us in the same house, by ourselves. I want to get her out. It could be for fun and all that stuff, but I’m a grown-ass man. I gotta eat.
You’re two different people, on-stage versus IRL. How does that interplay work? IS – Before I get on stage, I get nervous, so literally right before, I’m just like “Oh, you have to go out there.” You go out there, what are you gonna do, choke on stage? Be like, “Oh my God,” and run off? You have to just do this shit. You have to do it, and you have to do it to your fullest capacity. Once I get on, I kind of just let go. Whatever People are gonna love it, people are gonna hate it that got me going crazy, I kind of just let go of it all, because I have to do this right now. Everything just comes out in whatever way. It comes out in that moment because the adrenaline kicks in, and I’m taken by the adrenaline.
What is the “everything” that comes out?
All the energy. And just being a performer. Even though I may dress a certain way, it’s a fucking show. You can be the outfit. You can embody the thing. You can’t just go on stage in a fucking skirt and a mohawk and be like, “Um… this next one is called…” Nah. It all comes out.
Jacket, Shirt and Tie BURBERRY
How much is the outfit an extension of you, and how much is it a “Jekyll and Hyde” situation? Like another brain that’s working against the version of you that wants to blend in?
My look is a really big part of me. That’s why no matter where I go, people are always saying something to me. That’s why when I miss, I’m like, “Oh, I need to change,” or, “I need to go,” because I don’t feel represented. It is a really big extension, the outfit. I mean, I could still give the show naked. A lot of my look, Izzy Spears, is naked anyway. It’s not like a must, but it is an important part of my look to have the accessory, or the little peek-a-boo piece, the little take-off reveal, you know what I’m saying? It’s all part of it. I like to show layers of myself. Sometimes I’d go out in a full trade fit, big baggy, and other times I’m going to wear a skirt and a little fucking spaghetti-strap tank top. It’s all the same message in the music regardless — it’s masculine, it’s feminine, it’s whatever.
That version [of me] is always present in my head, but I never show it. There was an interview where Rihanna was asked, “What do you do if you’re just not feeling it?” And she was like, “Fake it, bitch. Act like you’re feeling it, the fuck?” That’s pretty much the concept there. I won’t always feel like, “Yah-yah, but I look like it.” It’s not something super intentional every day, because it’s just me, the way I dress, whatever the fuck comes out. It’s just who I am. I’m always going to look the way I look. Unless I burn my whole wardrobe and start over.
Something you mentioned earlier was about having checked out of school in seventh grade, and actually having left in the tenth grade. What was that time between seventh and tenth like? What led up to you–
[Laughs] Weed. And just being a fucking hooligan. Skipping school, selling weed, doing bad stuff, not being gay. Not like, being straight, but just pretending that I wasn’t gay. Doing every retarded thing I could think of that would draw the attention away from me being gay. I was really figuring out that I was gay, but trying to fight against it in every way possible. Selling drugs… hitting licks… partying every day… doing a bunch of drugs.
When did you stop trying to fight being gay?
Seventeen. I was high on Xanax. Me and my friends, six boys, six girls, we were all at the house just talking. And they were like, “Oh, she likes you, you aren’t fucking with her? On Xanax, you just don’t give a fuck about anything. So I just said it: “I’m not fucking her, I’m gay!” And then I got too excited, and I got on Facebook, I wrote a long-ass paragraph, I sent it to my sisters, and then the next morning I woke up, not remembering anything, got on Facebook, had thirteen messages. I was like, “What the fuck?” My whole family was going crazy. So I didn’t really consciously choose. It was fully a surprise.
KENDRE SWINTON – [Laughs] Going crazy. What does that mean?
They were just tripping. They were like, “Oh, I can’t believe this.” Now, everybody’s super happy for me. But yeah, like seventeen. I could have been like, “Oh no, my friends did that, they’re assholes,” but I was just like, “Shit, it’s literally now or never. You’re gay. Get over it.” It was just too much drama going on. Too many rumors. I was like, I haven’t been [in the house] for three years, I don’t have to be here, so I’m not going to be here.
Necklaces HANREJ and MARTINE ALI, bracelets MARTINE ALI
And you never went back?
Nope.
Have there been any challenges in recording the new EP?
Just being patient. I didn’t want to put the EP out just to drop it on SoundCloud, or put it through DistroKid, or something like that. What I wanted was a very cohesive, very industry-proper way of doing things. Then I guess another challenge was just… I do think about putting myself out there, and how it’s going to be received. Just being real on the track, and not taking anything out, or being worried about being too vulnerable, or saying too much, or people being able to piece what I’m saying into moments in my life. It was a challenge to just let that shit go. Put it out. Write it. Most of the hardship comes from breaking mental barriers.
How do you normally address challenges?
Just doing it. I could sit there and dwell on it. But if I am dwelling on it, I’m thinking of a solution, and most of the time, the solution is just doing it.
You’ve done a lot of work the past few months. Touring, then jumping straight into finishing your EP. Does it feel any different when the work is for you, and not for someone else?
I’ve done a lot of work for other people. This is my first music project. As soon as you finish a job for someone else and it’s done, it’s like, What’s the next job? Working for myself doesn’t end. As soon as the EP’s done, there’s more to do. I think that’s the biggest difference. I don’t see an ending. There’s not an ending point, or a final payout, or next thing.
Creativity is something you never really retire from. With a lot of artists, you can never buy it when they say they’ve retired from music. Is it like that for you? Full-time all the time?
Yeah. Even if I stopped doing music for a little bit, it would be something else for sure. I mean now that I’m doing music, I feel like it will be able to open up different opportunities and avenues for different work. It’s not going to stop anytime soon. Even if I take a break or something, it would be another project happening.
Do you want there to be an ending?
Not yet. I mean, obviously eventually. But no. Not really. I could perform for a long time. I’ve got a lot more of that left in me. I don’t see an ending anytime soon.
Necklaces HANREJ and MARTINE ALI, Bracelets MARTINE ALI, Cuffs R13, Underwear CALVIN KLEIN
They did everything to make a n***a turn from god not knowing every n***a is a god. Perception? We never see ourselves until we’re left staring naked in the mirror; dick limp. It wasn’t the alcohol but it wasn't him either.. Often am I perceived as “aloof” by the men I don’t want in my life or have ditch ed. I am the opposite of whatever a steady fuck is, they assume. What I conceal from you enables my evolution. First n***a through the door always got a key, but I left it open and I want to be touched.
I regret everything I left in the closet. I gained myself respect after I tossed everyone else’s morals on self-esteem and now everyone’s so proud of Izzy. Now everybody want a piece of Izzy. But I'm not for those looking for a thin slice.
Sacrificing religion to get to the finish line, my Mohel knew I was destined for greatness. Raw is law. Too many half asses out here and i aint one unless im over the kitchen sink. To be understood, is never to be expected. My duality of man; my masculine, my feminine. We have both and I use my chromosomes. To my dear ones, I’m known as Isaac. Benyamin is my family name, it’s better than a Welsh last name. My last name might suggest I’m not one of Europe’s black possessions, but, heard by the wrong Ashkenazi and he’ll be quick to remind me I'm no African prince, either. The key to a tale is to be found in who tells it. Still n***a.
IZZY wears Shirt TELFAR, Jeans WILLY CHAVARRIA, Shoes BOBBY DAY NYC, Necklaces HANREJ and MARTINE ALI, Bracelets MARTINE ALI, glasses FLATLIST; LEFT wears Shorts BRYAN JIMENEZ; MIDDLE wears Shorts WILLY CHAVARRIA
Last week, Fuentes further proved that point, releasing her latest album, Makes Me Sick, Makes Me Smile under the Pretty Sick moniker under her new London-based label.
Though Fuentes’ band has been classified in categories such as “‘90s grunge” and had many a Riot grrl group used as a reference, Pretty Sick’s sound is anything but derivative. There’s definitely an always welcome touch of Courtney Loven here, but the emotions and stories Fuentes has put into this album are all her own. I got into feelings, fears, and the Foo Fighters with the artist in our conversation, below.
So how do you feel that the move from London to New York affected you? Has there been a creative shift with that physical move?
In a lot of different ways! My label is here. I signed to a label after living here for two or three years and so creatively, my work process is different because before that, I was self-managed and self-releasing everything, and kind of only doing music when I had time for it between modeling and school. And now music is my full-time job, which I am super grateful for. And London is a place where you just have a lot more space to yourself than in New York, so I just have more space to think about my craft. I developed this whole album in London. It was a super long process, and it became my full-time job because I'm no longer in school. I don't really model that much. Music is what my full-time job is. So I was just waking up every single day going through my routine, thinking about writing more music, going through the songs I already had, making so many lists, showing music to all of my friends, and whittling down these lists. And then basically, trying to put an album together out of 40 songs over the course of a year.
Yeah. So what's your routine when you say you've got your routine?
I mean, I don't have as much of one now as I did then because that whole year was just about this album. And so I'd wake up, have a tea or a coffee because I habitually quit coffee for three to six months at a time and then get back on it. I just go upstairs and would have three different notebooks where I was planning the same thing, writing out those plans for a few hours, and then listening back to all the music that I have. So this was 40 songs, 45 songs at the time and counting because I kept growing and writing more.
What do you feel makes your music different?
I remember I read a good amount from young creatives talking about how they fear they'll never make anything original and it's just never been anything that really concerns me.
Creating out of fear is never the move, anyways.
Yeah, yeah. Exactly. I just don't feel like I'm ever going to be happy with anything I make if I'm constantly worried if anyone has done anything similar ever before. And so, I don't know, I just like to make stuff because it feels good and make stuff because it helps me express myself, more than anything. It's the best and only way I know how to communicate.
I think maybe what makes it different from some other rock music that's coming out right now is it really doesn't take itself too seriously. I feel like I poke fun at myself a lot throughout the songwriting process and poke fun at my peers. While I'm angry, I have a lot of other emotions that go along with that. And while I might be in love, I'll have a lot of other emotions that go on with that. I don't like to deny that one or the other. I think that they can coexist in songwriting and they definitely coexist in my life. So maybe that's what makes it different? But ultimately, I don't think any music is that different from the next, you know?
I feel like it's about finding a balance between being in your personal experience and in those basic human emotions everyone can relate to. Do you feel like your work is super personal and focuses on things that you're going through? When you're on stage, do you feel like it's you or it's a stage persona?
I think it's all really personal and all really vulnerable. I'm pretty terrible at communicating in my personal life and so this is kind of the only way I can do it. I feel like that's why I started making music when I was a kid. It's always something I wanted to do because I have a love for music. But when I started writing it wasn't because it was something I thought I'd be good at. It's just because I didn't really have any other way to express myself. All of my music is really personal and extension of myself. For a long time I didn't even really think that I would share it in a very public way, especially not something like for a long time, I was like, "Oh, I'll just play cafe gigs and sing my song for the rest of my life, even if I have other jobs." But it being on the internet was something that terrified me because it's so permanent, and committed, and once it's out there, it's really out there. Going all in with music as my career choice and as what I do as a person is really nice for me because it's just me being as much myself as I can, more even than in my personal life sometimes. So it's really vulnerable on stage, offstage, recording, every step of the process.
What was the first show you ever went to?
Well, the first show I ever tried to go to, my mom tried to take me to a Camp Rock Today Show thing in New York and she was like, "We're not fucking waiting in line for this," and we left. The first show I actually ever went to was a concert the Foo Fighters organized as a fundraiser for this studio that was closing where Nirvana recorded Nevermind, the Bee Gees recorded, Stevie Nicks recorded, and all these other iconic bands recorded. Everybody who had ever recorded in the studio got together and did a tour together. Stevie Nicks and the Foo Fighters, Cheap Trick… and they all played their big three hits. And then whenever they weren't playing their big three hits, they would pick up an instrument and play for the next person who was going to play their big three hits. I was on my dad's shoulders, and I was like 11 or something.
That’s crazy. Speaking of icons, the references that are thrown out around your sound and style tend to be kind of a throwback. Do you feel like you have a sense of nostalgia for a time that you weren't alive for?
I think most of my creative influences are from the past, but I don't really know if I have a nostalgia for it. What I have nostalgia for is more feelings, and parts of my life that went quite smoothly, were very easy and I felt carefree and joyous — without it having to try to be. I don't really feel like I have nostalgia for even the aesthetic or visual aspects of that time in my life. It's more just the way that I felt. So not really, but I draw mostly from older influences and stuff like that, stuff that I wasn't alive for or from alive during.
What's your favorite track on the album?
Probably 'Drunk' at the moment. 'Drunk', 'Heaven', 'PCP'. I'm really proud of my screaming on 'Drunk' and I like the song structure of it. Normally, I write really straightforward pop structured songs.
Cool. And what are you most excited for in regards to touring?
I feel like I get a lot of energy out every single night, so I can kind of turn my brain off otherwise. I've never toured America or the U.K., so I'm going to see a lot of new stuff for the first time. I also read and write a lot, so I always feel like I'm kind of doing productive internal work on myself. I function quite well on the road. I feel like it grounds me a bit, in a weird way, even though it feels like it probably shouldn't.
Yeah, well then you're on the right career path.
Hoodie PER GÖTESSON, Boots SLAM JAM ARCHIVE, Jewelry TALENT’S OWN, Shorts STYLIST’S OWN
There are reasons Yung Lean’s still around, though. I’ve looked into it – I even spoke to him about it a few days back. I was interested to know. Yung Lean got famous, so to speak, in 2013. He was 17 years old, an independent artist, and then, quite suddenly, a star of international proportions. Odds are he should have fucked the dream off a long time ago, yet it’s 2022, and the kid’s still standing.
In April, the now 26-year-old Swedish rapper (aka Jonatan Leandoer96) released a mixtape called Stardust, featuring industry giants FKA Twigs, Skrillex, Thaiboy Digital, Ant Wan, Bladee and Ecco2K. It’s about the millionth thing he’s done in the near decade since his first hit, “Ginseng Strip 2002,” went viral on YouTube — which is good, because with Yung Lean, there will for sure be bangers. Because that’s what he does. Next, he’s scheduled to tour Europe, and be in North America by late fall. Nothing's static, though; Yung Lean stays evolving. And this kid has certainly seen evolution — from his first ever gig at McDonald’s, to the work he’s put out over the last nine years: four albums, four mixtapes, videos, singles, and his post-punk side project Död Mark. He also paints. He's taken up boxing. Fuck if I know where he gets the energy for it all, but I respect it.
Left: Cape SLAM JAM ARCHIVE (BLESS), Trousers PER GÖTESSON
Right: Cape SLAM JAM ARCHIVE
Nico Walker – So where are you right now?
Yung Lean – I'm in Stockholm. I'm in my apartment.
I guess I saw the tour dates and stuff, I didn't know if you were on the road. I know in August, what, you're going to be in Poland, right?
Yeah, I'm going to be in Poland, and Romania, and Lithuania. [I’ll be] doing some special places in Europe.
Is this your first time touring since all the bullshit?
Yeah, basically. We were supposed to tour right before all the bullshit, and then when everything started, it was kind of nice to just be at home. I felt it was almost like I saw it coming. I just had this dream of everyone being at home. I bought a bunch of canvases, and I stayed at home and just painted. I was waiting for everyone to do the same.
I hear you, because I was thinking about that. I was looking at everything, and it's like, you'd done so many albums in such a short time, and all that work must've been just, I don't know... since you're so young, too. I mean, it must've been sweet, I guess, in a way. I mean, unfortunately, given everything else, but you probably needed a break. When did you start working on Stardust?
I started working on Stardust maybe 2020, 2021. I just wanted to do something that was fun. The idea was basically that, how I've done a lot of the other albums, it's like a 50/50 kind of collaboration with the producer, like Ludwig or Mic, Young Gud or whatever. These are people that I've known since childhood. Once we do an album, we really get into it, and we get manic into it. We just sit and do it. We might rent a house or a cabin in the woods. We just sit there and almost kill each other, pushing each other. You don't leave until it's perfect. Then for Stardust, I wanted to just have a bunch of beats, and sit in a studio with an engineer and decide everything myself. That's how it came about. It was very spontaneous.
Spinal Collier SUCUK & BRATWURST, Tank Top and Gloves STYLIST’S OWN
And you got Skrillex. You got a bunch of different collabs on there, too. How did all that work? Was any of that in-person, or was it all just email and Zoom?
Me and Skrillex met once ages ago in Iceland. Then I started hearing all these – like when you listen to the radio and you hear all these pop songs – and all the good pop songs, like, if Justin Bieber had a good song, it was always produced by Skrillex. I started looking into it more, and he had this emo band. You could tell he's very musical. He was in Stockholm, and I was doing this project, a side project I have with just my name, called Jonatan Leandoer96. We're doing this rock album, and Skrillex comes into the studio and it's filled with people. The first thing he does, he just takes a guitar and starts playing. He just snaps into it. I was like, "Oh, okay. Okay.” Yeah, he's all about the music, really, and I appreciate that. He blew up in this way that it was like, well, you could say kind of the same way that I did, in a way that I don't think people understood at first. It was like a bomb of internet and culture, just all put into one, and then just shot out in this dubstep way. Yeah. It was sort of divisive at the time.
About DJs, you had Justice, or whatever. Then Skrillex came out, and it was just, like, a total sea change, I guess.
Yeah. It definitely changed. I guess when Justice came, too, it went… I don't know where. But the “Stress” video — I love that video. It still does something to this day. I think people don't really try to be provocative anymore in music videos. People are like, "You know what, I should just get as much [of a] budget as possible. I'll put on the wackiest clothes, and I'll do the craziest thing." It's a trend right now. It's not really what people have in their hearts. That video, people were scared of that video. People were like, "Did this happen for real? Is this a documentary? Did these kids go and vandalize this? Is this real?" It was this beautiful moment of... There's this movie, it's called something about a dog, like a Dog Bite or something. It's a French movie. It's about this psychopath.
When is it from?
The '70s.
Is it called White Dog?
White Dog, exactly. It's a great movie. When White Dog came out, apparently people didn't know if it was real or not. They were disgusted by the movie. And I think when “Stress” came out, people were disgusted by “Stress.” They didn't get it.
I don't know if it's a weird thing I do, or it's an annoying thing I do, but whenever I meet people, and I'm hanging out with them for the first time, one of the things I always do is I play that “Stress” video for them on my phone at some point. I'm just like, "Have you seen this? And if you haven't, you have to."
I had the same thing with a movie called Happiness.
Rest in peace, Phillip Seymour Hoffman. He was fucking great.
He's one of the best actors ever. I was watching that on my first dates, just to see what the vibe was, see what the temperature was. Have you seen the new movie Licorice Pizza?
Yeah. It was Paul Thomas Anderson, right?
Yeah.
Okay, yeah. Paul Thomas Anderson, yeah. I love that movie. It was an epic movie even though it's very… normal, what happens. It's very relatable, and it's very human. I love anything where... it's like this thing where a writer, or a filmmaker or whatever, can handle that sort of social awkwardness, that kind of earnestness, and do it in a way that's just real. It hits it. It's not a spoof. It's just very human.
Yeah, same here. I love that movie. It's like what you're saying. It's when you're making a movie, and it's a coming of age film, but it doesn't have to involve a big tragedy. The moral doesn't have to punch you in the face. I didn't realize that was Philip Seymour Hoffman's son until I saw the credits. I was just like, "Oh shit, they got someone who looks just like Philip Seymour Hoffman to get the vibe of him."
It's definitely something in the genes, the genetics. They can act. They can act their fucking dicks off.
If you watch a movie like that, are you interested in the scripts since you're a writer? Do you want to read the script?
I do read screenplays. One of the things, when I was learning to write, I suppose, that was really helpful is something that I carry around with me. I have it with me right now, but it's Ingmar Bergman screenplays.
Which ones?
Seventh Seal, Wild Strawberries, whatever. I think that, as a writer, I guess, studying screenplays, it’s a cheat sheet for how to do arcs. You don't have all the prose, but it's all the stories. So it was very helpful to me to learn that way. Quentin Tarantino's another one – I've read a lot of his screenplays. I know that's not especially original of me, but I like the way he formats them.
People are so left field that they can't even mention Quentin Tarantino, but there's no script that's better than Pulp Fiction or Reservoir Dogs.
For sure. Yeah, I mean, it's like, I don't know, politics is always hard. I saw this interview with you one time, and they were talking about the Norwegian death metal scene. And you were like, "I don't fuck with his politics, but his music is great," is what you said in so many words. And I felt that.
Whenever someone's been so acknowledged in society, especially in Sweden, you have to check him. That's what happened with Ingmar Bergman. He was number one. He was like, the top don. He was the big cat in everything. At one point, he thought that he had eight kids, and then the interviewer has to -– because he's doing an interview -– and they're like, "Oh, Bergman, how are your kids?" He's like, "Oh, they're great. I have eight kids." Then the interviewer has to correct him like, "No, I think you have 10 kids at this point." He's like, "Oh, yeah, yeah. Ten kids." He didn't care about what was going on in his life. He just devoted himself to writing and making movies. But the best movie he made, because I never actually saw The Seventh Seal, or I never read any of the script, but I've seen one of his movies 10 times. Literally, this movie is the greatest movie. It's called The Hour of The Wolf.
That one is not included in my book, so I have to check it out.
You have to check it out. It's one of the best movies. It's Ingmar Bergman trying to do horror. It's so good. It's about this dude who has insomnia, and he goes out to the Swedish countryside. He's there with his wife, and he has this little journal where he's drawing, and he's saying, "Oh, this is a woman that I see in my dreams. She has a hat, and when she takes off her hat, her face falls off. These are two kids who have crow faces.” These are his dreams in his drawings. Then in the morning, his wife sees a woman with a hat, and she comes up to her and she says, "You know what happens if I take the hat off?" So it's like his nightmares are coming into reality. It's great. It's about being isolated in the Swedish countryside and all that good shit.
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Sort of like paranoia creeping in because of isolation a little bit, right?
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. He was an isolated person, and Sweden is very isolated.
One thing – when I was trying to prepare for this conversation, and trying to think of clever shit to say and not sound stupid when I was talking to you – one of the things that sort of jumped out to me is that you have that experience of spending your very, very early life in Belarus, and then moving to Sweden. And then you're 16, and you get shot into the stratosphere. You travel all over the world in this very important, developmental part of your life. I thought about how that related to your music, this not really having a country, and not being from a place, just being from the wider world, and not really identifying yourself with one thing or another.
Hip hop is very regional, and it's the same in Sweden. There are rappers from the south that have a special accent. There are rappers from the north, and the same in the States. For me, it was just music, it was way wider than that. Since I traveled around with my mom and dad when I was a kid before my sister was born, and then when I'm 16 — I’m everywhere, so I think I just had to figure out what's coming from in here, instead of repping your own town, or trying to get the sound from your city, or whatever. I think it became a lot less place-based and a lot more...
Back when you’re about 17 years old, you have to just start all over again. You've got all this fucking time, and then it's like, in a day, you're 16, 17 years old. You've just smashed it. Then you realize that that's what you've done, and that's done, and now you have to do something else that's got to be as good or better. The fucking pressure of that on you… I don't know if the youth was a benefit, or made it more difficult?
It's a good question.
So thinking about it in terms of, now you're coming back out of the world just being shut down for however long it's been shut down, and things start to go again, are you tired of having to reload? I mean, is it as hard now as it was then, to just find that thing that you fucking do and remember who you are again in time to turn it up and put it out, or is it like, I've got this, because I've done this so many times before, that it's almost automatic at this point?
You get knocked down. You have to start again. I think that that feeling is like, you get a little addicted to it almost. Do you know what I mean? It's kind of weird, but it's almost like you want to be the underdog. You want to question, can I do this? Can I come up with something better? Can I still go this hard? Can I go harder? Do I have better music in me? Do I have a better video concept? Do I have a better stage? Whatever. Am I still this person?
There was something I wanted to ask you about real quick, just about how you're feeling. What are you most positive on right now? And what are you fucking with?
What I'm the most positive about right now in my life is boxing. I love boxing. I've been boxing for a minute. It makes me happy. Thaiboy Digital's new album. And new music, the Danish punk band, Ice Age, always doing beautiful things, and Whitearmor's new project, which is called Music for Weddings. That's a perfect album.
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What influenced you on this latest project?
It's kind of difficult, you know what I mean? For you, are you going to read someone else? Then when you write, maybe you're like, "Shit, oh, their language is in my head. I'm writing like that person," or stuff like that. I'm a bit scared of, okay, so I'm going to make this album. I don't want to be listening to someone that's too similar to me. I was listening to a lot of Joy Division, and then when I was writing lyrics, I was like, "Yo, I'm not Ian Curtis." But sometimes that can be good as well, to know who you are, and be like, "Oh, this is not my style of writing." Or I can take a little from this, I can take a little from that, but at the end of the day, it's still going through your head, and you're still making it.
That reminds me of something you said, and you said it a long time ago. I think it was very honest and, I don't know, for lack of a better word, a “grownup” thing to say. It's just like, "Nothing's made in a vacuum." Right?
That's a fact, though. That's very much a fact. I was very annoyed for a while, because I'd see all these artists, like Soulja Boy was saying, "Okay, I started this, I started that." Then someone's saying, "But this is taken from Kanye, [he] did this and that." Then I realized, influence, it's like a tree. It has all these roots. So a Soulja Boy song might be influenced from OJ da Juiceman and Gucci Mane, but when it comes out, it's Soulja Boy's way of thinking. Nothing really is made in a vacuum. You can look at black metal, and you know it comes from Black Sabbath and Iron Maiden. It's just a Nordic version of it. I love music when you know that someone's trying to do something, but it comes out the other way. Dizzee Rascal, he said it in an interview, he's like, "I just wanted to sound like Three 6 Mafia." And Dizzee Rascal sounds completely different. I think it's interesting to be open, and be like, yo, for what I'm doing right now, I'm listening to a lot of Prince. Obviously, it's not going to sound like Prince, but still, it's good to say what you're inspired by. I think the best musicians always listen to a lot of music. When I listen to Kurt Cobain, and I'm like, "Yo, you know Kurt Cobain was listening to The Beatles." Because it wasn't just grunge, there was a pop element to it, and there was something sensitive. I don't know. I think it's so cocky being like, "Nah, I don't listen to anyone." But when I am in the studio, I'm not listening to anyone else's music. It's just weird. You really have to get in tune to what you're doing, but I feel like it's always good to do a cover. I do covers. I did a cover of The Ronettes’, “Be My Baby”. I was just like, "Okay, this is a way just to do something new."
And that's Spector too, so add a topnotch producer into the bargain.
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I was obsessed with Phil Spector last year. A lot of the music I listened to as a kid, I realized that's all Spector, like The Ronettes … And the fucking Ramones.
Now, he's known as a baddy.
One hundred percent.
Well, the sound, it's crucial. Did you ever fuck with the Shangri-Las at all?
I love the Shangri-Las, man. They got this one song called “Never Again.” It's one of the best songs I've ever heard. The thing is, what’s so interesting to me about music history is, okay, so you got Phil Spector doing Ronettes, doing Shangri-Las, doing Tina Turner. Spector, he's got this very cute teenage sound. It's love songs that are very dark. The Ronettes, she was being hit by him. Then you hear the Ramones, who are these weird guys from Queens, and they're doing rock and roll. But they've only listened to Phil Spector music, so they're just trying to do Ronettes. But they're men, and they're hedonists, and they had a different outlook, so it came out the way it came out. #
Do you feel that Phil Spector influences this latest thing that you've done?
What I'm doing right now, this new album that I'm working on, I listened to so much of Phil Spector’s Wall of Sound, that I'm doing a lot of choirs, and I'm singing on top of my own abvocals, layering vocals. I was just at a point where I wanted to sing more. And I feel like I always rapped, but my rapping was almost a form of singing or just putting words together. I'm not a technical rapper. When I grew up, I didn't want to be Eminem, with the technicalities or Jedi Mind Tricks. I respected all of them, but I realized that I can't do that. It's not me. What's me? It's the lyrics. It's the way I put it out there. I have a kind of lazy tone to it, and it sounded really good singing, singing kind of lazy. Yeah. I'm just naturally singing more, I guess.
Yeah. Then this “Bliss,” it's pop. Or —
No, no, no. It's pop. It’s no offense to me, that's a good word to me. Ten years ago, I couldn't do pop even if you had a gun to my head. Know what I mean? I just couldn't do it. I didn't know how to. I tried to do pop, and it became like my fucked-up, dark, twisted fantasy version of pop. Now I can do a song like “Bliss,” and I'm very happy to do it.
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