Meet Keith Chilvers

His new brand, Marking Distance, which he spearheads with James Pierce, mixes punk, kink and Japanese wood burnt furniture into a unique aesthetic and boundary-pushing brand. The website is extremely bare-bones and hosts Luka’s personal photography of his friends, hats, and 1 of 1 hoodies. Apparently, there’s supposed to be a community interactive web 2.0 feature that would let users post on the website,but no one tell 4chan. They have a reputation for trolling anyone who leaves the cyber door open a crack: sending Pitbull to Alaska, closing a pool for “AIDs,” and making Shia Lebuff go more and more insane by stealing his flags.

Luka’s references to 4chan throughout his career are subtle but steady. In 2018, he posted a screenshot of his face in the IMac photo booth amid a disorganized screen with Aphex twin playing in the corner, text messages left unread, and many, many tabs open to match the bedraggled, detached Luka, appropriately rocking his “Hot Mess” chain — an experimental collaboration he started with Noah Dillion. In the tabs, you can clearly see the minimalist four-leaf clover of 4chan open to the /pol forum — one of 4chan’s most infamous forums responsible for phenomena like Q-anon and January 6th. A few months later, that same four leaf logo is lined in green diamonds and wrapped around Lukas' pointer finger. His other fingers hold his other “infinity stones,” as he put in his twitter caption. These rings include references to his other inspirations —  Bauhaus, Dante's Inferno, and Aphex Twin. 

I remember calling Luka on Telegram after having DMed a bit the day before. I sent him some photos of his 4chan past, which got his attention — he deemed those photos “rare images.”  A few weeks before this interaction, Luka had launched his new website and brand “Marking Distance”. The website seemed like a passion project. What caught my eye was that website design mirrored 4chan. Why would someone successful want to be associated with such a notorious website? After some digging, I found that Luka was extremely popular on /fa/, 4chan's fashion thread — both as a subject and an alleged lurker. The obsession with him went deep, some posters even called him /Our Guy/ (4chan's greatest honor), or pretended to be him — obviously, they admired his comfy clothes and forward-thinking style.

I got to sit down with Luka and together, we guided each other through 4chan, Dimes Square, and the Pain Olympics.

Jack Ludkey: What's up? 

I'm having dinner with my mom.

Nice, your mom lives out there?

My mom lives in Paris. But a lot of my family's German. 

My family's mostly German too. I'm from Wisconsin. So there are a lot of German people here. 

Is there?

It's like 80%. German. That's why they drink so much.

Holy cow, I really don't know anything about Wisconsin. I ain't really gonna hold you.

That's all good. I wanted to write this article because I read the GQ one. And I was like, “What the fuck?” They didn't even mention the website, which to me was the most interesting part of the brand.

Well, the thing about that, actually, is that we recorded that interview way before our website was done. The website took quite a while to make because it doesn't run like 4chan or use the same software.

Gotcha. I was looking at the website and you say you want people to post on there, which I thought was an interesting choice. Do you think you're gonna have someone moderate what they post?

Of course — it's my business at the end of the day. I'm making a shitpost community forum, and I'm looking for mods and stuff. There needs to be a filter for sure, because it’s not actually 4chan — it's a business and I can’t have too much degenerative shit on there.

That's why I was surprised with the website design. I first thought, “Oh, this is like a gimmick. That's kind of weird that 4chan is now sort of mainstream, I guess?”  But then I was like, “Why? Why would he make Marking Distance look like 4chan?” I started Googling around and I found one of your tweets from 2014 that says, “you know the number one rule of 4chan?” And someone responds, “To not talk about 4chan?” and then you say, “Somewhat accurate, but not exact. Thus, wrong.” Luka, what is the first rule of 4chan?

First rule of 4chan is, uh [laughs] Don't talk about 4chan. So I was capping. 

Smart.

4chan is the most fried website. That’s the whole bit. That was like 2014. How old was I? I was definitely underaged.

Yeah. I was surprised that you didn't delete all this 4chan stuff on your Twitter. Did that ever cross your mind?

Nah, not necessarily, I mean, it's the fucking internet. Everything's archived forever. If I didn't delete it, somebody else would have it.

Right. I mean, that's what I figured out once I started researching. I was going far back to 2016 4chan. It's funny because they talk about you all the time, but they also pretend to be you. 

Well, they hate me. But that's what they love. They love to hate. So by default, the people that hate me also fuck with me. Some people just straight up fuck with me on there. But the real degen incels are like, [Luka adopts nasally nerd voice] “he's making it mainstream” and it's like, “What's the difference between me and some fucking Youtuber with like 6 million views that talks about fucking deep web icebergs.” You know what I mean? People know about this stuff. But I kind of introduced it to a different crowd of fashion people, more on the high-end side of things. 

Gotcha.

Because I used to spend so much time on /fa/and different Facebook forums — I just found it funny, you know? All the memes like, “They don't know I'm wearing Rick Owens” and all the random shit that all stems from there. That would end up on “Buying and Selling Supreme NYC” Facebook forums. All those memes stemmed from 4chan. Reddit always felt wack to me. I don't know why. 

Yeah it is kinda wack. I feel like it's wack because you can have a persona, while 4chan is all anonymous.

Yeah. You can be anybody on 4chan.

You can be Luka Sabbat.

You can be me on 4chan. It's so funny. When I go on /fa/, even though it's like a small thread that I put up when I launched my site, they were fucking roasting me on there. 

Yeah, they were pissed about the green text. They were like, “Luka, you forgot the greentext, it's text color #789922.” They're very pedantic.

You know the nerds are gonna nitpick this shit. I just had the website idea. And I presented it to the guy who designed my site and was like, “Please make it as close as possible.”

How did you first get put onto 4chan?

I used to play mad Modern Warfare 2 and shit. I would run in some modded lobbies and I was friends with hackers and shit, so they were always talking about 4chan and  Silk Road and kids buying credit card information. And naturally, on my own time, when I wasn't on the game, I did my own research. And I was like, “Wow.” 

Yeah, this place is crazy.

This place is crazy. You know, when you're a kid, the shock factor is so intriguing — whether it’s gore and the fucking Pain Olympics, or any of these other crazy videos that were circulating — we were just so intrigued by anything edgy.

So naturally I just gravitated towards 4chan and then I started going to so many forums on there, and obviously, I was into fashion, so when I fell into /fa/ I was like, “Wow, this is perfect. It's like a shitposting forum about clothes. I fucking have a million opinions about clothes.” And I could freely say God knows what about fucking whoever and spark debate, because the funniest thing to do is shitposting when you know it’ll make people angry. So I’d post an opinion I don’t even agree with.

I'm like, basically the biggest Rick fan, right? And I've been wearing Rick Owens since high school. And obviously, a lot of people on /fa are Rick heads. So I just made this entire thread about how Rick Owens is the most dogshit designer and how he just makes black clothes for fake edgy kids. I’m just wearing Rick Owens while posting this. 

You’re trolling.

Yeah. And that's the big thing too, right? With the internet, you can never argue with anybody online because it's like, these are the people that you're arguing with.

In an older tweet you call them broke. I don't know when this is, but you say “hey, /fa fuck you broke idiot cuntheads.” 

Yeah, I think I was living with my parents when I said that. I was a kid. I didn't even really have my own bread [laughs]  But, again, it's just trolling. Obviously people throw slurs at me —this and that and third.

And the ring. What do you call them? Your Infinity Stones? I like the ring design. Very minimalist. Who made it for you?

This guy called O from Pristine Jewellers in New York. That's when I really first started making paper, you know? And I was like, “Fuck. What's the most fried shit I could do?” And it was a combination of a bunch of things I love. I haven't read too many books, but I love Dante's Inferno. I've listened to Aphex Twin since I was a kid, I love Bauhaus, and I love 4chan. So I was like, “fuck it, let me just make these four rings.” 

It's cool because they're your origins.

A lot of my graphic design inspiration comes from the Bauhaus visual language and their typography and texts and graphic design. And I just love Aphex Twin visuals and music.

Did the guy making the ring know what it was? 

He had no clue. But he didn't necessarily ask either.

What did your friends think of it?

They liked it. I mean, pretty much everyone did. They're just a bunch of big diamond rings like how could you not like ‘em? On 4chan it sparked debate. Obviously, some people thought it was tacky, which it was. And some people disliked it, as they do anything.

You grew up in New York?

I went to high school on Grand, between Essex and Ludlow, at Lower Manhattan's Arts Academy in LES. Also, the initials of my name are LES. I've been kicking it in Dimes Square before that shit was even called Dimes Square.

It's crazy that shit popped off as much as it did. Do you try to avoid it? I feel like you are a lot more famous than them. But New York's a small place.

Yeah, I don't avoid that shit. I'm a regular guy, bro. I still go to Dimes Square all the time. I've been getting juice at that corner smoothie spot since I was in high school. The fucking dollar dumping spot down the street? I still go there, I run into those people. I mean, I know a lot of those people. I don't position myself to be better than anyone, you know? 

That’s the 4chan mentality.

I don’t give a fuck. I’m from here. I'm not gonna stop going here. Sometimes I get recognized by the newer generation and they freak out, but that makes me happy. If anything it's a form of flattery.

So this picture, where you're with all these beautiful women and you're scrolling on 4chan. Where are you?

I was at the Principe Hotel in Milan.

Okay, gotcha. The girls look confused and you're smugly smiling and they're like “What the fuck?” Very funny picture.

Those are some of my oldest friends. I love those girls, man. So that's Leila Rahimi and Dellila Summer Perillo. And Dellila is king of the OG Hot Mess muse. And Leila is just an amazing painter and I've known her forever. They didn't know I was taking a photo. We just hung out a lot.

It’s an iconic photo.

It's a sick photo. I think I'm on /pol in that photo [laughs].

Are you gonna do a press tour for the website?

Not necessarily. Even though it’s active now, the website isn’t in its final form. It’s gonna be the hub of everything — from my photography to the music I’m working on — all these other things. I'm launching my first collection next year and I'm doing a showroom in February or June — it depends on when my samples are done. My focus right now is really the product that I'm making. And the website is a byproduct — it hosts all the stuff I’m making.

And I don't really do press. I mean, prior to this GQ interview, I hadn’t done an interview in over a year. I don't really do interviews.

Really? I'm honored. It’s funny because I was trying to write this article about you and I was like, “Who the fuck am I gonna talk to?” I messaged some people from the New York Fashion scene and I was like, “You want to talk about 4chan?” And no one responded at all. And I was like, “Alright, well, it's gonna be hard to write.” But I've got you so that’s sick.

To me, this is really interesting because you're doing something new and taking a risk in being associated with 4chan. And you're doing something new in fashion, which is rare nowadays.

Well, that's the thing. I've been part of the fashion industry since a very young age, and I've seen a lot of things come and go, which has been a benefit to me. I've gotten to work with some of the greats and be close to some really, really, really talented people. My parents are into fashion. My mom used to work for Bureau Betak. She was always fashion-forward — she wore a lot of vintage — a lot of secondhand Margiela and stuff like that. She never really bought anything firsthand because it was really expensive. But you know, France has some of the best designer vintage stores. You can find an old CDG (Commes de Garcon) button-up for like $150 bucks if you look in the right places.

I’ll have to check that out.

When I wanted to start my company and like my brand, I just wanted to do something different — not necessarily super new or fresh, just the stuff that I'm truly into. And I work on all the other clothes with James Pierce, my business partner in the apparel section of Marketing Distance. We're both into metal and crust punk, so the clothing is sticky and dirty and feels rough, but it's made at a super high level. That’s the shit that we’re into.

The website is a 4chan ripoff, and  a lot of clothing that I make has a lot of fetish imagery and sexual innuendos and stuff like that. But if that's the shit that I'm into, you know I couldn't fake it. I'm attaching my name to it. So, even though I’m dealing with some risky subject matter,I think it's authentic. And it's coming from a place of homage and worship, you know? I'm not gatekeeping these things or pretending to be the first person to do it. I'm paying homage and I'm being really open about where the inspiration comes from. I feel like some people try to pretend that they're the first or they're the most original. I'm not claiming that. This is my take on it. This is what I'm into. And whether you like it or not, that's not really up to me to decide. But that's where I stand with that. I'm just paying homage to the shit that helped me become who I am today. From the internet, to music, to movies, whatever. Everything. 

Do you think your clothes are /fa/? Because that’s all that matters on the forum, they don’t care about fitting in IRL they want to fit in on 4chan.

Yeah. I think my clothes are /fa/. They're super high quality. The way me and James are looking at our clothing is that we're not a brand — we're not trying to sell full looks. We want to make statement pieces that you could just put in your closet and wear with all the other shit that you have, so you could wear it forever and it’ll age well. You know what I mean? 

Yeah I got you.

And it's aesthetic as fuck, and it's sick [laughs].

I like the patches. Do you think you're gonna just keep doing these 1/1’s going forward?

We’re working with this factory in Vicenza, which is like this little town an hour out of Venice, Italy. James Pierce made the prototypes by hand in New York and then we brought the prototypes to this factory for them to recreate. It’s really amazing.

But we were planning on doing a showroom, because this stuff isn’t going to be cheap. It’s all self-funded. And it’s some of the best fabrics made in Italy with custom zippers, treatments, this that and the third. It’s a lot of development, so we want people to feel connected to the product. So, while we are going to sell some stuff online, we really want to focus on an in-person experience. So we want to sell to stores, but not just any store — stores that connect people that understand fashion. 

So not Hot Topic.

Yeah, but also not necessarily something like Barney's. There’s a target audience that I'm trying to reach — the kind of consumer that wouldn't be scared to spend, you know, $2,000- $3,000 on a leather jacket from a new brand. But once they see the product, and they feel the part, they're like, “Oh, shit, this is top tier!”

A lot of the people on 4chan were worried about you. They're like, “Luka if you’re still lurking here you should get a job.” They're concerned for your well-being. It’s kinda sweet.

I mean, I search [/fa] in my downtime. I spend so much time at airports or on planes, chilling in my hotel. Like, right now I'm in Berlin, I'm in the city. After this interview, I'm gonna take a shower and get dinner with my mom and go out. I do have a lot of downtime when I travel and when I’m sitting around. You know that first hour when you wake up and don’t want to get up yet? Sometimes I like to do a little bit of brain rotting before I get out of bed. You know, tarnish my mental by going on the worst side of the internet.

Is it kind of nice to have distance from your name? Because I feel like people interact with you differently because of who you are, so is it kind of nice to have, like, a place where you can be anonymous?

Yeah, it's fun. And you know, there's obviously so much like gnarly shit on /fa/ but there are some gems. Sometimes there are some great takes on /fa/. People do sometimes discuss things and people do sometimes have valid points.

Some of them really know fashion.

So many people really know this stuff, where that’s basically all they do. They're chronically online. That history of fashion, everything a designer has ever done — all that information begins to infiltrate their personal life.  It’s like, [Luka adopts a nasally nerd voice agai]  “According to this interview in 2014, that designer went to school and blah blah” and it’s like, “Holy shit.”I learn from there too, you know?

Who's making the memes on your website?

So I made some, and so did this other guy called Danielle Gavrenko — really cool Ukrainian kid. He’s also always online. And then I just met this other kid — Jamie — who DM’d me andsent me some funny memes. We just make them. I mean, they aren't that hard to make. I just recycle some ones that I already like — like thatSonic one that I posted. Originally it was like, “If porn is so cool, why isn't there a porn 2? Exactly, now return to Christ.” So I just replaced “Porn” with “Marking Distance.” 

Are you gonna make the Wojack in the corner at a party meme, “They don’t even know I’m wearing Marking Distance right now?”

Yeah probably. We’re working on so many memes — it's not my focus but I love having humor in my work. We wanna keep the website active, so I try to post at least once a week.

The people on 4chan also want you to put ads up on 4chan itself. They get mad when people post your website and they say “Luka just buy an ad”.

Uhhh, yeah, I was about to do it, and then I got lazy. I’ll probably get someone on my team to do it.

I feel like they’ve seen you grow up. They’ve been tracking you and your career since 2014. It’s like they're a fucked up older brother in a way. They care about you. 

That’s kinda why I fuck with that community — I’ve been on there for so long. These people have seen me go from some Instagram kid and shit poster to an actor and doing all these things. And I fuck with them for tracking it and for supporting my stuff. It’s pretty sick and they’ve seen it all from the beginning.