CB — It’s the moments where you pause that are the most special and beautiful. Take it all in. That’s why we have to always remind each other, because it’s one or the other and often at the same time... We gotta just stop. You can’t stop for too long because you can’t fall behind, but you gotta stop for a second, take it all in, keep moving. And I think that’s how the story gets told, and that’s a big part of what Zach’s doing, and what’s being created right now. He’s so truly passionate about what’s going on. It’s real love. It’s real context. And he’s just doing it... There’s gonna be documentaries. There are going to be movies about this shit. I do believe that.
ZB — Yeah, and I think COVID also was this break that we didn’t realize we needed in a sense, trying to take the good out of it. But also in the sense that, funny enough, I thought we’re all back to how it was prior in terms of how people interact. But for a second it was like, ‘Yo, a month has gone by, I’m not getting the same texts from the same people,’ and you realize a lot of the relationships are transactional. Who do I really care about? Who really cares about me? Who am I really talking to? And that’s fine. Some relationships are business, some relationships are more, and that’s totally fine. But I think it also puts a lot of things in perspective for everyone.
CB — Yo, another question—I want to just hop in before I forget it. Time and attention are a currency and I feel like everyone has their own budget for their time and their attention to things. So, how do you recommend someone spend their budget and how do you spend yours? Because you do so many things. I think one of my first questions for Zach after I got to know him for a little bit, I was like, ‘How do you do it?’ But it’s really how you spend your time and attention.
ZB — I think it’s something I’m actually learning more and more about, because I spend so much of my time on others in a beautiful way. I’m happy I do that, but it’s about learning to prioritize what’s genuinely important. And to me, obviously, that’s family, it’s friends. I put friends and family in the same boat. I only have my mom and my brother and I’m super close with them, but because I didn’t grow up around a bunch of cousins and things like that, my close friends are definitely family to me, and my priorities are those key people in my life, and then work and the mission we’re on. We’re not stopping. And I think it’s increasing. As you grow older, you grow increasingly self-aware of not just being on the ride but controlling it. Not being a passenger, but being the one steering the wheel and asking yourself, ‘Where do you want to take it?’ It’s just as scary, but it’s exciting. And I think as I’m on these missions, I have a kind of natural internal clock of, ‘Okay, I need to go get this work done. I need to go do this. I need to go spend this,’ while mixing in moments of leisure when appropriate.
RH — Why don’t you want to stop? What are you worried about? Or is it just another genuine natural occurrence inside of you?
ZB — It’s not. It’s like, anxiety. If I stop, what will happen?
CB — One person we should talk about before we forget is your actual blood brother, Elon.
RH — What advice would you give him?
ZB — Because he’s my little brother, I felt like I was always the one that spoke up for him. My biggest thing for him is, ‘Elon, your voice is powerful. Speak up. You have so many great ideas, and you’re good at writing them down.’ But when it comes to asking for things, he never does. That’s probably part of being a little brother—kind of always feeling like you get hand-me-downs, or you get this thing last. I’m like, ‘Yo, Elon, if you want something, ask for it. You want a budget for something? Tell people.’ And also, if you don’t feel comfortable having those conversations, that’s when you should get other people involved, the kind you feel can facilitate those things. I mean, obviously, you should understand all the business aspects of it, but your main job should just be to be an artist, creating music, coming up with ideas. Let me handle getting the money for that. Let me handle how we distribute this, how we put these things out—all those things. And that goes for any artist. You’re an amazing photographer, videographer, multi-hyphenate creative. And for you, you shouldn’t have to have these conversations at a certain point. Of course, you have to build it up and get there. And it takes a lot of hard work and, really, a lot of tough conversations. But at a certain point, if you feel it’s better for you to have someone else that handles that for you, that makes total sense. I know, for me, once I made that jump to kind of putting my own negotiations and stuff in someone else’s hands that I trusted, it changed everything for me.
CB — So how do you manage trust? You even said that when quarantine started, you kind of—or we all kind of—started to see who’s really there for us, who our friends are, what people’s intentions are... So how do you manage?
ZB — Part of the reason, my quote-unquote story—which I don’t feel is some crazy story— but part of the reason that so little information is shared about my life has always been trust. Because it’s not about sharing our experiences with anyone other than ourselves, you know what I mean? It’s only now that we’re talking about these things. But even for years, we were like, ‘Why is he this person?’—there’s no reason for me to explain it because what we’re doing is a human thing. It’s an in-person thing. It’s like you have to experience it. And trust is the number one thing. We’re so lucky to know so many people. But how do you learn to trust someone you’ve never met in person? Kids are doing that. Also, a lot of mistakes come out of very strong emotions, desperation, excitement. And it’s learning to navigate what’s beyond just that initial feeling. Some people call me and be like, ‘I have this crazy deal for you!’ But it’s contingent upon something else, or their intentions are different, or they want you to help them do this, or it’s a favor for a favor... My favors aren’t like that. My favors are just favors. They’re just because I genuinely care and want to help or whatever. Time really is the biggest thing. You get to learn. You have to make mistakes, or you have to learn from people that made mistakes, and you can’t jump into things. I say no to 99.9 percent of things. And probably, some of them, I should say yes to. But I’m so extra careful with my trust and so extra careful in doubling down on what I’m personally doing and what I’m trying to build that... I don’t know. You just gotta figure it out.
CB — Is it the same for you, as time goes on? Because, 10 years from now, think about all the people you’ve met. You probably have the biggest networking catalogue of friends and associates that probably already ask you for favors all the time. Is that stressful for you? And how do you think you’ll be able to manage that?
ZB — It is stressful, and I’m learning the power of no, because if anyone asks me how to do anything, I’ll always try to make it happen. But I’m learning at what expense.
CB — Yeah. Give, give, give.
ZB — Give, give, give. Is it, in terms of the power of no, saving my own personal sanity? Or saving... What if someone wants an introduction to you, and it’s quite possibly a waste of your time? No disrespect, but maybe it’s something you’re not interested in. How do I protect that from even happening? And that just goes back to The Future’s point about integrity and learning to navigate that.
AZ— Absolutely. That concept holds a lot of weight, but just as much hope, speaking as a woman who has been there.
DT— That’s what I’m hoping for, because I know everyone’s situation is different and some are going to obviously be a lot harder. But that’s one of the things—if I could just tell anyone who’s having a really hard time, if you could just hang on. It might take some months, or maybe it’s going to take a few years, but I do think it’ll get better. You’ve just got to find something to hang onto. And it hurts. I’m sure it hurts more for the people who lose loved ones too, who don’t find that hope or something to hold onto and it really is heartbreaking.
CB — And the thing he said was, ‘If you tell someone ‘No,’ they might be mad at you, but they’re going to respect you.’ And a friendship, relationship, whatever it may be, can always be built back up, if there’s a foundation of respect. People have to respect ‘No.’ And we have to normalize ‘No.’ It’s always, ‘How much for a music video? How do we get in touch for a music video?’ And I say, ‘It’s not about the money.’ I always say I just let the world turn. I just let the world turn, and we’ll see what happens. And I think that’s how we have to approach life and everything. We got to enjoy ourselves and our journey, as well. It can’t be give, give, give, because it’s been that for so long. It’s like, okay, now we’re here. Let’s build it into something beyond us.
ZB — I ask for very few favors. Sometimes, I wonder if I should do more, connect more business with people I know. But the answer is, for me, that’s not really the way.
CB — But you do it in such a natural way. You put people in the same room. And if it’s supposed to happen, it’ll happen. Going back to delegation, by the way, one of Virgil’s biggest fortes was finding the right people to get involved. Pedro [Cavaliere] on the music front, his design team, what kids to help. And this is someone who was able to prioritize everything from Louis Vuitton, the biggest luxury company in the world, to designing a t-shirt for the local skate shop. And he actually saw equal importance in all these different things. That’s sort of what made him so great—he could touch all these different touch points across culture, across people’s lives.
ZB — And when he passed a couple of days ago, you start to see this influx of Virgil memories and Virgil posts. And you’re like, ‘Damn. How many fucking people have amazing memories with this guy?’ This is a guy who turned 24 hours into a week. And he would be in 10 places at once. And everyone has a story because he somehow found time for all these people, maybe more so than he even should have. Always giving.