MNTGE Brings Vintage to the Metaverse

February 07, 2023

As individuals, we tend to collect and hold onto objects not for what they are, but rather for the stories we associate with them. These stories are what make us human.

As the digital world shifts toward Web3, the very question of our humanity arises, as well as the fear that emerges when challenged with transformation, but the truth is that the impending metaverse isn't as scary as it seems. It isn't an insult or a chance to start over. Instead, it's an opportunity to build in-addition-to the world that already exists.

Last December, creative multi-hyphenate Sean Wotherspoon, culture executive Nick Adler and branding genius Brennan Russo came together to launch MNTGE, a digital wearables brand with a particular focus on preservation and world-building in our ever-expanding digital future.

Interview by Sahir Ahmed
Images courtesy of MNTGE

For the label's inaugural collection, Sean curated and designed a digital line based off of four of his most prized vintage pieces in his personal archive. Bringing these real-world heritage vintage pieces to life digitally, MNTGE is giving them new life in the digital age and even providing users the option to customize their pieces with digital ink bottles. These wearables will eventually be able to be worn by avatars in a range of metaverse games and ecosystems in the future.

office had a chance to sit down with Sean and Brennan to get into the substance of all things Web3, NFTs, and MNTGE.

Why is the preservation of vintage so important to you. What's led you in this direction?

Sean Wotherspoon— Vintage is so important to me. Even when we started Round Two, it wasn't like, oh, I can't wait to sell this. It was more of being proud of what I thought was exciting. I'm like, oh, wow, this item makes me happy. I'm proud to show this to someone else, see it make them happy, and then watch them create a story with it. It's never been about monetization. It's more about preserving something and watching it breathe life into the next person's hands. It's something that we can always latch onto. There's always a story there. There's always happiness and excitement. And I think it tells so much of history. American workwear tells American history. French workwear tells French history. We're able to learn so much about the past from garments and from clothing, so I think we should start recognizing them the same we do a statue. A statue that's been around for a thousand years, we should start looking at denim and things like that the same way.

Brennan Russo— Building off what Sean’s saying, one thing that we're focused on is that preservation. A lot of these pieces are tucked away, whether it's in a storage container or an old barn. We all collect things, and they're all near and dear to our hearts, but a lot of times, the world can't see them, and the world can't interact with them. What we're doing is providing an avenue where the world can see these garments, interact with them, and own them digitally.

It's never been about monetization. It's more about preserving something and watching it breathe life into the next person's hands.

How does it feel to take that to the next level with digital renderings?

SW— Honestly, it's a privilege. Thinking back, I was born in 1990, been around 32 years or so. Just in my lifetime, I haven't seen a chance to become this much a part of history. We've always taken what we find in the physical world at face value, and then we try to find so much more depth in it. But when you find something, you're like, okay, that's the end of the story. I'm going to take that further, by telling the story of its past. I think now we have a lucky opportunity and, as I said, a privilege to build the story going forward for the future of any item. And it's always so tough for me to articulate, but I think it's just such a lucky place we're in right now. And I'd hate to take it for granted. We have a real chance to change the future and become a part of history.

BR— One thing that's fascinating is that early on in this project we focused on the harnessing the key element of vintage, which is the stains and rips and tears and fades that happen over time and building that digitally with the highest quality possible. We’ve nailed that portion, and we're proud of how detailed those renders are and how much they do tell the story of the garment and stay as true to it as possible.

When I saw the NFT, I was curious, why that jacket? What does it mean to you?

SW— That jacket for me… it's been sitting in my collection for a handful of years now. Every once in a while, I'll find something that I believe is irreplaceable just based on different wear characteristics or customizations. That jacket just defines that at the highest level. It's a jacket that, without any of the embellishments and stuff, is 50-plus years old. And then you start thinking, okay, so it's been patched, and look at these rips. And wow, they removed the inside tag and used it to patch the shoulder. They took salvage denim with the salvage line from another pair of pants and replaced it on the shoulder. They took patches, and in the '70s, they meant a lot more with them than we do now. It was wearing your interest on your sleeve. You know what I'm saying? I'm going to tell someone about me, and I'm going to do that through this patch that I'm patching my '70s Lee jacket with. And so, dude, that jacket just has so many different points of customization and personality that you can tell that that person was expressing themself through that jacket. And there's strawberry patches on it, and I love strawberries. So I was like, man, this person and I have something in common.

Did you ever think you'd be making NFTs?

SW— 100% no. Honestly. My dad was the first person to ever talk to me about Web3 and NFTs. And I shit you not, 10 years ago, 10 years ago, he was pushing me to do a Round Two token. I just thought he was a loony. My dad's a real tech guy, always been into software development and stuff like that. And I'm like, man, this is way too high level for me. But fast forward, here we are. And I'm like, wow, if I would've taken his advice 10 years ago and maybe would've accepted some Bitcoin at the store, damn. But yeah. No, I never thought I would. I guess I didn't think that the digital world would play such a big part in our physical, butt that's just continuing to come together, and I'm into it.

BR— One thing is that we're looking at the underlying tech behind it, showing ownership and allowing it to potentially go into different places. If you own this digitally, then where else digitally can this show up? How does it work to go across different spaces? Looking at the backend tech has been super important to us on this project, as to how we can utilize it and provide utility for people. That's something that's also big with us.

SW— Agreed.

You bring up a great point, I feel like we're shifting toward this digital landscape, but a lot of people still have no idea what that means. What's one thing everyone should know about Web3?

SW— For me, what people should know about Web3, is that it’s no different than using your smart TV and choosing a streaming platform to watch. When that tech came around, we were almost offended by it. Same as we are now. Oh my gosh. We're not going to Blockbuster? We're not going to a Redbox? We're always so offended by new technology. What I would tell people is that it's no different. Look at this like you're just signing into your Apple TV or something like that. It's not that crazy.

BR— There’s always hesitation on something new. But anything that lives in the physical world you also see pop up more and more in the digital world. Right now there’s just an overall lack of hardware where we are. When the hardware starts to catch up with the software, you're going to see something magical happen there. As we all talk about this day in, and day out, it kind of feels like we're in this pre-iPhone/iPod era where the tech, it's emerging, but we're going to need some hardware adoption as well to help bring this thing along.

SW— For sure. There's a lot of dreaming going on right now. That's how I know that we're at the front of something big. Every conversation I'm in, everyone's thinking so outside the box. There are so many questions unanswered going forward into Web3 that this is guaranteed to be a huge part of our life. It just makes sense at this point.

Have you seen Space Jam 2?

SW— Unfortunately.

Yeah. It was awful. But whenever I think of Metaverse, I think of them going into the game. That idea was cool.

SW— Even the original one where Michael Jordan goes into the hole. Up until Space Jam 2, I was the biggest Space Jam fan in the entire world because when I was younger, I truly believed, not because I was an idiot but because I was a kid and kids like to imagine, that there was an opportunity to go deep enough into the earth that I would end up in a cartoon land. And the belief of that was probably the coolest shit you could ever dream of. And then Space Jam 2 completely just... I don't know.

No, it killed it.

SW— Yeah, it killed it. But that's the thing with Web3. I feel that same excitement, actually.

Are there ever any obstacles to transferring real-life objects to digital counterparts?

BR— Oh Yeah…

SW— Okay… I'm on the easy side of it. I'm just like, oh, let's do this and that. And then I walk away. Brennan, his life has been absolutely fucking treacherous with this stuff. It's just terrible. It's been horrible. Right? It's been horrible.

BR— No. It's fun. It's problem-solving at the highest degree. And when you're trying to do something new, actually really fun. When you're in this more corporate structure, a lot of people are like, oh, don't tell them what we're working on or don't tell them what we're working on. Everybody in Web3 is working on stuff together, and everybody is trying to solve and blaze the trail. It's eye-opening when it's like, hey, you're working on this very difficult thing, and we're also working on this very difficult thing. And people share the info. And other people that are in this digital fashion space, we're all blazing this trail together, and people are doing their own unique things. The problem is, a lot of times it's relatively easy if you're asking an artist to hand draw something digitally, and then the output is also that garment digitally. It all works. But what we're doing, which is so difficult, is we're taking something that physically exists, we're scanning that in and then we're running that through the digital pipeline of how an artist will get it to animate. Sometimes they come in too flat, and you're like, well, that looks like a piece of paper. But it needs to be a pair of jeans, so you need to add more volume and all of those things. Each one is a tough decision, and if something spins on a hangar, how do you get it to react where the wind works the right way? All of those things have to be invented from the ground up. There isn't an industry standard, so literally, each touchpoint of the garment has been something we've thought through. And it is a very difficult task, but we now feel really confident about it as we've gotten this first collection done. We're proud of it. And we also like the foundation that we're building on.

SW— Our attention to detail goes that deep. This would've been a lot easier without me because I want every single string of cotton to be represented. I shit you not. We go through a review, and I'm comparing the real one to the digital. And I'm counting these microscopic threads to make sure that it's exactly perfect. I've never had the opportunity to be that detail-oriented, so it's also exciting to know that as far as we want to take it can be done. We didn't take the easy route.

The inks were a cool concept, letting people use them to customize their jackets down the line. What made you think of that?

SW— Just being a part of it for me. Being a sneakerhead and living in the early days of Nike ID, meant more to me than anything in the world. Being able to put my little SW or initials or something on a shoe, I truly felt like I was a part of it. And then fast forward, when I'm talking about that denim jacket and the embellishments that person made, I'm like, okay, customization means everything. That defines our product. It might not have character or personality unless we give the person the chance to put their spin on it. That's us saying, "Hey, you get to look at this through your lens," and then you get to finalize that. And that gets to be on the blockchain. It's huge. It means everything for the story and then the story that item creates going forward.

BR— As we were ideating, one thing that kept coming up is the test of time, whether you look at the '60s and the patches people would put on their denim or before that, people are always customizing their garments because it's an expression of who you are. Doing this project, we knew that that was important to us. And we were like, okay, how are we going to bring this to life? And as we went down this road of inks, it's been also really fun to think about, how else can inks interact with different things digitally. We've been so focused on apparel, but you have an apparel product silo and an ink product silo. And the inks digitally, now that you have the base design to them, you could take that potentially other places as well, which is fun for us to think about.

Is there one thing you've yet to digitize that you'd want to see online one day?

SW— I got a whole rack of stuff right here that I'm excited to scan in. Thousands of items. I want the whole world to be scanned in. So there's not even just one item that I'm waiting to scan in. My whole thing is to build a scanner farm, and scan in every item that's ever been known to man in the physical being.

Would you ever live in a digital version of Richmond?

SW— My avatar?

Yeah, your avatar.

SW— Sure. As far as my avatar is concerned, he can live wherever he wants. If he wants to do a few years in digital Web3 Richmond, that's cool. I would hope he ends up in maybe Hawaii or whatever digital Japan is.

Could we see a digital world in MNTGE’s future?

SW— I think you can see us being a part of a lot of worlds. That's a key plan for us. Watching all these other companies and brands or whatever starting their worlds and their metaverses and whatnot, we just want to be the clothing that highlights that. When you think of Levi's, for example, they just create quality products. It's up to the consumer from there on what world it could live in. We're taking also a super traditional approach but also applying that to Web3 where it's saying, hey, we're going to create quality goods that can be versatile and used in any world. And so that's how I see it.

BR— Yeah. And one thing that comes with a big challenge, too, is that it’s easier said than done. That's a lot of hard work, but that's something we are actively working towards.

SW— Interoperability.

BR— A rabbit fits a jacket differently than a bear, who fits a different jacket than a human. Those types of things take design work. They take resources. They take time.

SW— Yeah and we’re working through it.

BR— Exactly, we're working through it, and it's a fun challenge for us, for sure.

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After 30 years and over 100 cult fragrances, COMME DES GARÇONS PARFUMS 1994–2025 BY SIMONETT & BAER launches this month

December 17, 2024

“I have to add that the topic is, of course, an irrational one, because it's not art and it's not fashion. It has to do with scent, which is something in the air,” explains Dino Simonett, renowned art-book maker and designer/publisher of the new COMME des GARÇONS x SIMONETT & BAER book, which details 30 years of CDG perfumes.

“The moment you smell something is irrational,” he continues. “This book transports you and brings you to the idea behind the perfumes. People have gotten thousands of art catalogues from me, but this fucking perfume thing really drives people a little bit crazy, you know? Because everybody has this bottle; and that bottle smells like this on them; and this bottle I need; and all the memories and everything. I like it a lot that we made this.”

As fans and family of the world’s coolest brand prepared to gather at Dover Street Parfums Market in Paris to celebrate the launch of the book, our Editor-At-Large Paige Silveria shared some coffee and cigarettes with Simonett to discuss his wild trajectory, making books with Joseph Beuys and Tilda Swinton early on, and the importance of nonconformal thinking.

By Paige Silveria

This fucking perfume thing really drives people a little bit crazy.

Paige Silveria: Tell me about yourself. You make books.

Dino Simonett: My books are my art. Each book might be a painting or sculpture. And you should not do the same sculpture all the time. When you hike somewhere, you never should go the same way back home — this is something my mother taught me when I was young. In the same way, it's boring to make the same stuff all the time. So I try to find a way to invent my own language.

PS: This book you’ve made is really beautiful.

DS: It’s hyperrealistic larger-than-life images of boxes and flacons in an endless row presented on paper the thickness of a children’s book.

PS: I loved how it said in the press release that you woke up one Sunday morning and the idea for the book suddenly came to you.

DS: The backstory is that Remo Hallauer [COO of COMME des GARÇONS International] is a true book lover. We met at the Offprint book fair in Paris. And one day, shortly after peak COVID, this email came from him asking if I’d think about a possible collaboration with one of the young stars here — and no hard feelings, but it didn’t work out. So then, as it is in life, which is the essential thing, you have to have an idea. And most of the time, they’re not good enough. You have to have another and another and then you go, Ah ha! Perfume.

PS: And you’d already been pretty familiar with their fragrances?

DS: I’ve known this stuff since the beginning. I wore the first perfume they created. It was part of my life all the time, and I thought, It's so funny. There’s a connection with how I make the books: like two, three books a year, all collaborations and each is different. Just like their perfumes. So I immediately texted Remo.

PS: And what perfect timing, with the 30-year anniversary.

DS: Yes, but this was two years ago or so. I hadn’t had the jubilee in mind. It might not look like much, but there was a lot of work to do.

PS: Many of the advertisements and images weren’t archived, physically or digitally, right? You had to search all over for a good portion of the material?

DS: Well we also had to wait for the official deal to go through in the beginning. Adrian Joffe [President of COMME des GARÇONS International and Dover Street Market International] wanted to do it but he didn’t have the mind space at the time; they were about to open the Dover Street Market here in Paris. So we were on our own for a bit, developing the project from zero. We looked all over the Internet and tried to create the chronology. I had a young guy helping me. He kept reminding me to be patient and to continue to work on growing the book. The door was open, but we had to wait in front of the next room. So we took little steps to prepare ourselves. And stuff slowly worked out.

PS: And thank God for the Internet.

DS: Yes, because as you mentioned, there was no archive. We thought surely they’d have something in the basement. But no, that didn’t exist. At one point they sent us a list of all the perfumes so we had a clear checklist to manage. I had to become an expert.

PS: There are so many, over 100?

DS: Yeah, and at one point the CDG team was activated. It was like a machine and in the spring suddenly a load of stuff was coming. First we had to grow the grapes, then make the wine and then the grappa. And at the end, it's a really strong grappa. And so things came together, and then one day Adrian said, “All is fine, but Rei [Kawakubo] must now also approve it. This is how the system works.” But nobody had told me! So Remo met with Rei to show her the book.

PS: That’s a bit of pressure!

DS: She could have said no and we’d have to throw everything in the garbage, two years of work. There was indeed a little bit of pressure. But it was fine. She liked the book. Then at the end of this summer we met again and they asked if they could have some of the finished copies on 20 November in Tokyo. I said, “I’m sorry, what?” He was thinking that the book was finished, you know? I told him we still needed a lot of material to finish it. Sometimes it's nice though to have this pressure. It's motivating and thrilling when you finally accomplish it all.

PS: Let’s go back. How did your upbringing inform who you are?

DS: It has to do with nonconformal thinking. Most people think the same. And we’re constantly pressured as well, by everything around us to conform. You have to really fight to keep your head and so I had this upbringing with this rather eccentric mother who was absolutely nonconformistic in every way. She was resolute. Why should we follow the path of the masses? It was never my thing. Voilà.

PS: How were you in school?

DS: I was not so good at school. I was only skateboarding at that time. I was on the Swiss National Team. I even was here in Paris at a European championship when I was 15 at the Trocadero. And my mother said, “You are not going to school anymore. You need an apprenticeship. It makes no sense to send you to school any longer.” I was independent and had my first salary at 16.

PS: What were you doing?

DS: I was a carpenter making tables, chairs, all that stuff. All my friends went to high school with like 16-week holidays, while I had only four. And so it was really, really tough shit for a 16 year old. But I learned two important things. The first one was discipline; seven o'clock each day it started and lasted nine hours. And the second thing was precision; you have to do things right. People always said to me that the apprenticeship was good as I’d really use it for the rest of my life. And I always thought that was such bullshit. But actually, it's kind of true. And so anyways, the moment I finished my apprenticeship, the very last day of the last test, I went on the Interrail for one month and never went back to a carpenter shop.

PS: What’d you do after?

DS: I wrote a letter to this very super famous music guy, Claude Nobs who was organizing the Montreux Jazz Festival in Switzerland, telling him I’d like to work there that summer. I mentioned that I’d just finished my apprenticeship for carpentry. He phoned me back immediately after getting the letter. He said, “Oh you’re a carpenter? You can come right now.” He was renovating his apartment in Montreux. So I stayed and worked there alone while he was up at his chalet. I felt like Kevin McCallister from Home Alone in this completely furnished apartment. And then the festival started, and there was this guy from New York doing a large mural painting. It was Keith Haring. I had no idea who he was. We became friends. Then I met George Benson and Herbie Hancock. It started from nothing and then one thing comes, another thing comes, another thing comes. This is how I started, which is maybe not the natural way. But I was following my intuition and taking chances and putting myself out there.

PS: And you're going after what you have a passion for.

DS: I think that’s the best way to live one's life. It was like my own private art school. I met all the guys I was totally hot about. I met Joseph Beuys and told him I wanted to do an art project with him. I got his number and he told me to ask for his assistant. But I took everything for granted, what people said to me. So I had this phone number in Berlin. And I called the guy 20 times until this fucking meeting with Beuys finally happened. And we met and made a small collaboration art magazine called “Quer.” You just have to stick to the stuff.

PS: Wow. You don't still have one of those copies around, do you?

DS: I had one and I brought it to Remo at one of our meetings. Adrian saw it and immediately took it … I hope he gave it back to Remo. Adrian has a pile of my stuff that he wanted to see, so that’s good.

PS: Yeah, of any coffee table in the world for it to be displayed, his is probably in the top 10.

DS: So then I decided my dream was to be a film director. There was a film school in Berlin that I applied to. They only took about 18 people from 600. We waited all week to see this list on the wall for the final call back meeting. And my name wasn’t there. I was like, “Shit!” And then a week later, I received a letter saying I’d been accepted. Later the director told me it was clear enough with my application and the art magazine I’d sent that I’d be accepted. I don’t say this to brag. I say this to tell you that every young person that wants to go somewhere, all they have to do is fight. You have to get out of your house and your small town and your comfort zone and all that shit.

PS: I agree. So you’ve made films?

DS: I made a feature movie and went to the film festival. It was really amazing and everything, but I was not Tarantino, you know? So it’s the last semester and Tilda Swinton is supposed to teach a seminar. I really wanted to attend it. It would be the cherry on top of the cake. Then she postponed it once, then twice. The third time, I’m on the tube and there’s a woman in front of me with a newspaper that says that Tilda’s super mentor, Derek Jarman, had passed away. It’s the very Monday morning that her seminar is set to begin. And I thought, Oh shit. She’s not going to be there. But then she was there after all and it was a fantastic week. There were only five of us students and we all fell in love with her. And she fell in love with us. I’ve known her since.

PS: I can only imagine. How’d you make the transition into books?

DS: You have to find out what you're really good at. I had long discussions with this guru, an old guy who was a very diligent, very bright guy. I was really miserable, feeling directionless. He asked me why I wasn’t continuing with filmmaking. And I couldn't give him an answer. Then he said right into my face, “Probably it’s because you’re not good enough.” The message was one-hundred percent received. It was a relief; I'm not a bad person. This guy told me the truth, and I could accept it. And when you can do this, you can figure out what you actually want to do, what you’re actually good at. I started making books. I made one with another film director. And we visited Tilda at her hotel, bringing one to her as a present. As we’re knocking, I thought to myself, If I did another book focused on people in this business, it’d have to be her. And she opens the door, looks at the book and says, “Oh, I would like to have a book like this on me.”

PS: These situations seem unreal.

DS: I spent five years on her book, which was an enormous success. It included stills from all her films and launched it in different cities. Fantastic shit.

PS: And now you’ve just released this soon-to-be iconic CDG book.

DS: I've learned to be patient; things can take you years. This book with Adrian and Remo took two years and I didn’t even know if it was going to be approved! Follow your dreams as much as you can. It's not so important which dream it is exactly. If I see a step in front of me, I try to take each chance I get. This is what I wish for everybody, in whatever situation you find yourself, start to do something with nothing. This book started with just a simple idea. You can not find anything like this on the Internet, this compilation, this narrative. It’s something we had to bring together with enormous work. And here we are. I think in our digital, splattered times sometimes you have to make something which is real. That you can sit with and focus on in silence and really take time alone with it.