"MY SHADOW"

office sat down with the rapper ahead of her music video release for “What You Wish For,” which drops today on all viewing platforms.

I know you grew up with music in your family. But what really led you to knowing it was your calling? 

I guess I concluded that this is the only thing I can do. It's the only thing I know how to do, and one of my more positive, reoccurring activities [laughs].

You later dropped out of school to pursue it. Did you always trust in the universe that it was going to work out? What kept you going?

I’d say I didn't really leave school to pursue music. I had already dropped out when I was in the 10th grade. I really didn't think that I was gonna just be living off of music. I always made music because it genuinely made me feel better and I really love doing it. It's just a happy accident that I'm able to live off of it. But now that I did get what I wanted and I'm able to get by with this, I kind of want more. I guess that's how everything in life is though. You get what you want and you realize you could have asked for more.

You released your debut album, Order of Events, in 2020. EPs and other projects followed, but Elite Vessel is your major label debut. Do you feel like you’ve reached a more evolved sound this time around?

Well, this was the first time that I was working with other people. So that does make a big difference. The way you are when other people are listening and other people are in the room becomes an evolved version of self because you're kind of being judged — which is okay. That's just human nature. So this is my first time working in those kinds of environments, hence the name Elite Vessel, which is this facade you have to put on because other people are watching.

Artists are ever evolving and you get to see that throughout their creations. To be able to look back through your projects and see them as markers of how you've grown, I think that's a really cool thing.

Sometimes it can be a little bit cringe. It feels like when you're looking back on old Instagram posts and things you used to think were cool. But I guess music is a little more timeless.

What do you think the music has helped you learn about yourself?

I don't know anything. Every day that I wake up, it's just a whole new thing. It's a blessing and a curse. Every day is another blank page where everything I learned before, subconsciously, it's put into motion, in the present. But I don't know. I learned that I never really know anything at all.

I think that there's beauty in that too. It means that you can consistently create new things. Your videos are often shot through this nostalgic lens. Who inspired you growing up and how did this inspiration play into your latest music video?

We were working with this very amazing director, Olivia. We let her take the wheel, and the house was old and nostalgic. I'm from Queens. Sometimes when you book a space in Brooklyn, it'll look a little bit more updone and then you show up and it's just crazy. There's no light, no heat, stains on the carpet [laughs]. I mean, it's a vibe though. It's kind of how I grew up. So it's nice to have it recorded in a more beautiful light. But for this video, my idea was that I'm drinking a lot of coffee and I'm in a rush. Olivia put her twist on it and we brought in a bunch of old people. That's pretty much it. And as far as who I listened to growing up — I would just take acid and stare at a wall [laughs]. I'd listen to Tyler and Mac Demarco, Doom. Everybody who's cool, you know? But I never felt like I needed to be just like them or I needed to do this thing that they did.

Your sound is very informed by the way that you grew up. There are a lot of homages to that in your music and all the references that go along with it. You've said before that this era represents a more elevated version of you; you're more grown up. You're standing on business.

Yes. For sure.

Given that, what would you go back now and tell your younger self?

I'd tell her it's a lot of work. I'm just thinking about my song, “What You Wish For.” It's literally saying, 'Careful what you wish for.' And it can be true. It's just mad work. I'm just tired of being pulled around left and right. It's a never-ending to-do list. I don't know. I wouldn't really have any advice for her though. Because I think everything that I'm doing is right and how it should be. I'm going on the path that I'm meant to be on.

That path led you to where you are now — why go back and mess with it?

Exactly. Everything happens for a reason. I'm thinking more now about the old people in the video. When I end up being around a bunch of old people, I feel like I'm too baby-ish for them. But at the same time, I'm too grown for people in their early twenties and around my age.

There's a lot of responsibility that comes along with what you're doing. And I think any dream from the outside looking in is super idealized.

Absolutely. And then, actually, everything is not that hard either — at the same time. Any immaculate, excellent idea you have has been done before and is possible. Even a brain surgeon is like, just some dude.

That's super powerful. The biggest pop star in the world — that's just a person. It helps you believe that you’re capable of doing these things that may have seemed out of reach.

For sure. That makes me think about Ice Spice. I feel like everybody's always got things to say about her, but she had to do so much to get to where she is now. And nobody even sees that. They always just see the silhouette or one image of the person and judge everything that they do and just rip them apart. They're like, 'Oh I could do that.' And it's like, no — I mean, yes, anybody can do it, but it's more than that. I guess that kind of contradicts what I'm saying.

But I get what you're saying.

I'm saying it just takes so much work.

I think it's about acknowledging that all things are possible. We're all human and that evens the playing field, but you also have to put in the work, and that's the distinction. The potential is there though, for anyone. On your journey, what challenges did you face along the way?

I guess the biggest challenge is just having to be a human being. That's what I'm also figuring out, as I try to portray myself as the 'elite vessel.' I have to show up and do robotic things and be perfect and look great and be pleasant and smiling and positive. I'm just a human being. Sometimes I get emotional and it's hard and I get cranky on set. I get through it because I have a larger goal in mind and I have to just remember that there's so much more to do. So I can't have a hissy fit and complain about something small if I want something huge.

Having a platform like yours can be a lot of pressure too.

Either way, when you have a large platform, it's never enough. There's always gonna be a bunch of people who have things to say. But I mean, there's mad love. So as long as you can get the job done, that's pretty great.

And you can't make something for everyone. You can't make everyone happy. So I think also knowing that and knowing that that's okay is important.

Exactly. All you can really do is stay true to yourself. And that's why if I were to go back in time and see myself, I wouldn't say anything. I would just let her do what she's doing.

People are really drawn to your authenticity, especially when it comes to performing. You're from Queens. How do you feel that that makes its way into your sound and personal style?

It's an effortless thing. I don't even have to think about it. I think I'm just perfect just the way I am. That's it. I'm from here and that does put a lot into me because when I step outside, that's what I see. I feel inspired by the cold and the people and the old heads out here who are wearing the same jacket that they have had for 25 years. There's this attitude of annoyed disturbance and overstimulation. Sometimes I actually do wish I could be more like sunshine and happy. But the streets definitely influence me [laughs]. The dead rats and the dookie and the train station water on my forehead are all probably interesting to people outside of here.

What's your go-to bodega order?

I'm gonna try to put myself in the perspective of when I was growing up. Because nowadays, I don't really go to the bodega as much. I actually just went to the bodega recently and all the 50-cent cakes were $1. Like that's crazy. But when I was little, I used to get butter rolls, a bagel with cream cheese or I like the sausage, egg, and cheese. And my sister, we would get 250 pennies, put them in a sheet of paper, and fold it up. I would tell her to go because I was embarrassed. This is when I was like 12 and she was about 10. She would go in and just hand them that and get a sandwich. And I liked oatmeal cream pies and Arizona green tea.

When it comes to personal style, it's pretty often that you see an artist when they first come out they have like this sense of style that maybe it's not fully developed yet. And then they find it through time.

By getting some money then they can buy what they want [laughs].

And that too. But I think your personal style was so distinctive from the jump. Your image is kind of like your “signature.” The cat-eye eyeliner is like your trademarked look. 

I do definitely see fashion in a similar way to the music. I think it's really beautiful that everybody has their own things that they're drawn to. And what you're drawn to and what you're attracted to means so much more than just simply that. It says a lot about a person.

Do you feel like who you are on stage is also who you are behind closed doors?

Unfortunately, yes, dude. I'd like to try to make a disconnect. I know that other artists are more controlled in that way. But I'm just like this all the time. Sometimes it gets a little bit overwhelming for me — just in general. People love it when you're overly emotional, sporadic, and insane on a stage. And in the studio it's cool, but then in real life, people don't really fuck with that.

You're doing this because it's something that you love doing. And in that sense, there's not really a distinction between stage you and just you all the time. You can tell when someone is just being themself, but then also just happens to be doing so with an audience. You know what I mean? People are drawn to that rawness. You had this very experimental display that got people talking for Elite Vessel.

Oh yeah. So many people are stealing my idea now.

They are. I've seen that too. I mean, that means you made waves. The experimental display in Union Square had you sitting in a box for 10 hours — a call to the project’s themes of loneliness and seclusion. Tell me more about this album. Why these themes?

It's about how I'm just like a product now. I never knew what any of this was. I didn't know what an album activation was. I didn't know what press runs were. I started flying back and forth from LA to here and I was extremely confused. I started to feel like a deliverable. I just recently signed with a label so now the experience is so different. Which is great and a blessing. I'm very grateful. I just didn't know what it was gonna be like.

And I kept on having this idea too of me like being wrapped up. Santigold had this album cover where she was in meat packaging and covered up in plastic. I just thought that was so cool. So I went to the label and they were telling me like, 'Oh, it's great that you're doing Reels, but you need to make TikToks.' Then as a joke to my team, I was like, 'Or how about I just lock myself in a box.' Then we really did it.

I loved it. I liked that it was super related to these feelings that you had, so it wasn't just like, 'Oh, I'm gonna do this thing because it's stunty.' What were some of the emotions that you were working through in the album? How did that manifest into the video that you just worked on?

I guess it was this idea of pessimistic optimism and a forced drive to continue — that's the major theme of that album. I'm saying, 'I don't really know what I'm doing, but it's all getting done.' When I was making that album, I was in a relationship that was kind of serious. I mean, as serious as it would be for a 22-year-old person. So there's a lot of me writing about that because it was new for him too, to see me doing all of that stuff. I talked about how it was just like a battle between us two. I had to do my work, but I still wanted to be a human and be in love and it was a struggle.

Doing what you do, you have to figure out how to balance these parts of your personal life with these parts of your life that aren't personal anymore. You're now sharing yourself with so many people.

Yeah, and for my future project, that's the theme I dive into. I have completely just lost my personal life. It's just all work, all music — I know how it is now. I'm still learning, but it's all just album, art meeting, shoot, studio, dinner — only work all the time. But that means some good stuff is coming. I have a whole album. I'm gonna just make more and more and more. That's what I live for.

I know you have US and European tour dates upcoming. How does that feel for you, to know your music made it all the way from Queens to Europe?

That's crazy. I mean, I remember when I did my first London show and just being in the car, looking out the window and seeing the streets. I was just imagining some girl was here listening to me in their ears and I've never even seen this place. That's really wild and beautiful. If anything, that's why I'm doing it. It has a purpose because it connects other people. Maybe they bond through that or they feel understood through my lyrics. I love touring. Well, obviously when I was there I was complaining the whole time [laughs]. But now looking back on it, that's just what life is about. Little moments along the way.

Although you spent all that time trapped in a glass box, it doesn’t seem like you can really be boxed in. How do you want Elite Vessel to be perceived, artistically and sonically?

I love that you're asking me why I do this because it's really having me reflect. I'm literally about to start crying right now. I mean, I just feel like my immediate thought to that is: because why not? And that's what I would want anybody to take from it too. With anything that they would ever want to do or pursue, the question is just why not? I dare you to do that.

And if people love it, then they love it. And if they don't love it, then it's not for them.

If they don't love it, like we're all gonna just die and that's it. So it's all good.