Amalie Gassmann: Nocturnal

July 09, 2021

Amalie Gassmann is nothing short of a modern renaissance woman. Starting her career as a model at 16, she knew from the start that she wanted to do it all, and she's doing just that. After graduating college with a BA in film, Amalie quickly began her mission to take over the world. She is a regular face of Dior, Acne, and now Burberry, but her reach doesn't stop there. Amalie is currently growing her talents as a creative director, writer, and filmmaker. As well as developing her own career, she is also doing everything she can to bring fellow AAPI faces and voices to the forefront.

Interview by: Oona Oglesby
Creative Director and Model: Amalie Gassmann
Photographer: Leeay
Stylist: Miso Dam
Makeup: Echo Seireeni
Hair: Kelly Duong
Collages: Nikita Reva
Photo Assistant: David Jung & Michael Steinpichler
Director of Photography: Sam Frank
Video Editor: Jacob Weiss

Hello!

Hi, babe!

Let's jump right into it, when did you begin modeling? How did that happen for you?

It’s actually really interesting. I was scouted at a Christmas party when I was 12 by the head of IMG, Jenny Rose. Growing up. I never thought I wouldn't be a model, that was never my intention, but I knew I was always the tallest was in school. The classic tall, skinny kid, I always felt really awkward. So I was scouted at 12 and they told me to keep them in mind so when I turned 16 they could officially sign me. Then at 16 I signed to their world wide division, it was London, Paris, New York, and I think Milan as well. It was such a great experience, something I always look back on fondly.

So you modeled throughout high school?

Yeah, a lot of kids stop going to school when they begin working as a model but I always knew that I wanted to continue with my education so I wasn’t working full time. It was mostly doing jobs here and there, but then once I graduated high school I took a gap year and that’s when I really began working more seriously. Often time IMG will send their younger clients to somewhere like Japan to begin working, but they sent me to Australia for three months which I loved. You know, living in the model's apartment, meeting a bunch of girls that I'm still friends to this day. It was really great experience. After that I went to London for a couple months, then New York. It was so amazing getting to experience traveling like that.

Do you feel that your time in Australia helped you become more independent in your career? I know that can be hard for a new model.

Absolutely, living there was the first time I was ever living on my own! Because of that I had to learn how to navigate work and professional life before most other people my age. It really gave me the confidence and tools I needed for the future and for when I ended up needing to do all of that on my own professionally.

What do you mean on your own professionally?

Before I signed with my current manager, who I love, I was an independent model. I was putting myself out there and getting myself the jobs and making the deals. I also just signed to RSA for photography and moving image!

That’s so exciting! And really impressive, I mean you've been working a lot for some time now. How does being an independent model work?

It’s really just about having good brand relationships. From the time I began working I made a point to continue nurturing relationships with brands I loved and knew that I wanted to work with in the future. For example with Dior, I started going to their shows and wearing their clothes at events when I was 18. Now I’m 25 and I have this really special relationship with not only the brand or the clothes, but the people which is something that is really special to me. With Acne studios, Balmain as well as PR’s, I started working with them around the same time and have just continued to work with them whenever I can.

Is that how you began working for Burberry?

Yes, well actually they reached out to me during the pandemic to come and do a virtual shoot for them and attend one of their virtual fashion shows. I love brands that promote collaboration and Burberry is great at that. I continued to do smaller promotional things on my instagram and then later in the year they reached out to me about becoming the face of their _”In Bloom” campaign with Nordstrom. My boyfriend Aidan Cullen who is a photographer shot it so that was such a great collaboration! I really love how Burberry shoots their campaigns in nature so I got really excited when we shot in a forest. As a brand they made me feel very seen and appreciated with the ideas that I have. They are a special brand and I am very excited to continue to work with them in the future!

That must be a really special thing, to have that kind of relationship with a brand you actually really love and care about. I know you also do a lot of creative directing, do you think growing up with a mother in the industry and starting to work in front of the camera from such a young age helped you naturally transition into doing that kind of work?

My mom definitely inspired me, she always knew that art and fashion we're going to coincide and meet in the middle. You can see that with all the fashion and art collaborations, like with Kim Jones working with KAWS. Maria Grazia Chiuri is constantly working with female artists to bring their voices to the forefront. I really believe that fashion and art work hand in hand with one another in such a special way and having grown up around both worlds has allowed me to understand how to manipulate them exactly the way I want.

Look I can vouch for that. I always love when you take my photo because I know I can just say, ‘pose me’ and you’ll know exactly what to do! Do you feel as though you’re about to use that knowledge in your narrative directing as well?

I absolutely can. It has definitely given me an advantage I think, just understand how a body works through the lens. I also just love being a part of something that is collaborative. Modeling can be so isolating, but getting to direct or creative direct and work with the team as a whole is so fulfilling. I definitely have seen modeling become more collaborative which is great because it’s something I also love about the creative process. Being about to nurture a collaboration between so many different artists and work with them time and time again. It’s so special.

That make’s total sense. Im curious to know how you have seen the modeling industry evolve since you were 16?

God where do I even begin? One thing that has been a huge change is just what people want to see. People want more diversity, they want to see differing opinions and faces and bodies. When I began modeling people didn’t really think twice about the models voice, no one really spoke up. I think that’s been one of the biggest changes. People are now allowed and encouraged to speak up for themselves and what they know is right and wrong.

What do you think was the catalyst for that change?

Honestly, social media. Like instagram was a huge shift within the industry. When it first came out people kind of looked down upon it, they didn’t think it was going to go anywhere or be of any benefit. Agents really looked down on it because they thought of the modeling world as being so elite, look at where we are now! I got on instagram really early and it’s completely changed the landscape of the modeling world. People can now speak up for themselves and be heard, they’re more in control over their image and how they are seen.

I also feel like it has changed the way you are able to reach people. You’re no longer confined to the walls of the modeling, directing, or writing world.

You know, people want to hear from other people, they want to understand other people and social media has allowed for that to happen at such a greater rate. I also feel like it’s inspiring people to go outside of their comfort zones in terms of creating art. It’s really amazing.

Absolutely! With that, we met at Bard College.

Yes, we did! Iconic!

Oh, so iconic! Im interested to know what was the driving force behind you continuing to go to school, studying, directing and how do you think that kind of helped you begin to find your voice?

I mean, it's a known fact that like a lot of models have to give up going college or an education in order to make it. We’re constantly told that modeling has a very short lifespan, that you have to be very young, you have to rush into it and you only have four years to make it, which I don't agree with. For me, as much as I loved modeling and working, it was super important to take the time and further my education and throw myself into another passion of mine, that being directing.

What made you want to pursue directing?

I actually grew up wanting to become a writer. I was writing constantly so I thought I was gonna become a writer, which I want to try it out like later on in life. But then- it’s so corny, but my dad watched a lot of SciFi when I was growing up. He's actually obsessed with it, so I would always watch SciFi movies with him and that's actually what I wanted to do when I first decided to get into film. My dad showed me Star Wars and the way George Lucas was about to build this whole world, it just clicked in my head that I could make my stories into movies.

SciFi! I would have never guessed that based on the work of yours that I’ve seen in the past.

Oh yeah, I’ve strayed very far away from the SciFi world, but who knows maybe someday I’ll come back to it!

When did you want to start working in realism and go away from the fantastical? When did that switch happen for you?

Aside from the nostalgia I feel towards SciFi, I’ve always gravitated towards the stories that show our humanity. Work that shows people’s emotions, how they hold back emotions, how they cope, you know, the hardships they've gone through. I'm really interested in that because, I don't know, I feel like, like humans cope with emotions in very different and interesting ways. It kind of like snowballs into every decision they make in their lives and I love to see it happen. I want to show the raw and real. I want to shake people up a little. Does that make sense?

Oh, absolutely! I feel like people really need that these days too, the reality check that it’s not always a happy ending.

Exactly. I want my films and the films that I work on to sit with people long after they leave their seats. That’s something I really strive for in my work.

Now a bit of a more serious segue, with COVID and the rise in AAPI hate crimes across this country how has your work changed in the past year and a half?

I had to take a step back from creating for a while especially after what happened in Atlanta. I was in New York at the time and looking at the news seeing people of all ages being attacked just for being Asian made it hard to leave my bed. I was very, I was very scared for my community as well, because a lot of things also happened in San Francisco and my grandmother still lives there and it was just hard to think about anything else, anything but the fear. I was glued to the TV watching all of this horror happen and I was really scared. Through that fear I started to really reevaluate how I wanted to start creating work again.

When you were in New York what helped you get through that time?

Being around my friends. They would come over and go on walks with me so I wasn’t alone, pick up food and just hung out with me at my place. My friends really helped me get out of that dark place. I also did a lot of reading. I read everything I could about what was happening, I looked for places to donate and just did my best to become as educated as I could. I’m Japanese, American, French, and German, there’s a lot of cultures there and I began thinking more and more about how I could honor each one. Growing up I never felt like I was just one thing, never just French, just Japanese, just German, just American, but with that I also never felt like I had the right to claim any of those identities fully. So the idea of making a piece about Paris, or with the French culture even though I grew up there my whole life seems wrong. I didn't really feel like I belonged anywhere, so finding myself within my own life and developing a deeper understanding of my culture has been so helpful during this time.

How has your work changed since all of this? Are you more selective about things you work on?

I decided to just think about every project I do more and through the lens of what can I do for my community. I started to take my work into my own hands. Going back to even before COVID, back to when I first started modeling one thing that always stuck with me was the idea that someone like me wouldn’t be able to get an editorial cover. No matter how many brands I worked for, an Asian girl wasn’t going to get the cover. It has always made me angry, but I was finally just pushed over the edge and was tired of waiting around. For most of lockdown I was in LA and while there I met an amazing, small team of creatives who were not only ready to work, but who wanted to help each other create their dream work. Meeting them was game changing because it allowed me to begin to take over more aspects of photoshoots. I started putting myself on magazine covers, I would hire other Asian models to work with me. I figured, if no one was going to give me the opportunity, I was going to give it to myself, to people that looked like me who otherwise wouldn’t be given this opportunity.

Do you see this change happening within the modeling world as well?

Well, I can only speak for myself as an Asian American, but I do see some changes happening. I still get really frustrated because it’s not as much as I would like, but when I’m on set and look around there are almost always a wide array of models. In terms of the creative teams, well that’s still frustrating. It will be teams that are entirely white or men and then the models are people of color, which doesn’t sit right with me. I have definitely been getting more work, also because things are opening up again, but sometimes I worry if I’m getting this work because they like me or just my look. I can’t help but wonder though if it’s a change that’s going to stick around, or is just the trend of the moment.

It doesn’t always feel authentic?

Unfortunately no, but I also believe that it’s only something that will reveal itself with time. If big brands and fashion houses continue to strive for not only more diverse models but also crews then we will be able to say if its authentic.

That makes totally sense. I feel like in these industries representation can sometimes become just be another trend cycle.

It will definitely just take time to know if it’s real growth, but I’m hopeful. And it goes beyond modeling, even in my directing I have started thinking more about how I can tell a story and cast Asian actors without making an Asian movie. I have always been so frustrated not seeing an Asian cast in a movie that is just telling a story without some kind of stereotype in there. I also think now we are just being heard more and people are listening.

Is there anything you are actively doing to combat that?

I just am trying to share my experience, which for me is just life. It isn’t a trope or anything, it’s just life. I am just putting my foot down and no longer asking for the cover or the part, I am making it for myself and for other people like me. It’s hard though.

What do you mean by hard?

Well maybe not hard, but rather, delicate. Even if you're telling your own experience it might not be the exact experience of other people, you know what I mean? So sharing your life or your opinions with the public is always going to be criticized, even if it’s just your life. I've always wanted to voice my own experiences, but I'm still trying to figure that out, which is okay because I'm still really young. When I do make a piece that's more reflective of myself, I always want to do my story justice. When I am given the chance to help tell someone else's story I always want to do it justice. It’s just about learning how to tackles these subjects with love and tenderness.

How was this shoot special for you?

I really have never worked with an all Asian crew. It was also a great challenge because I was working with people that I had never worked with before. I've always worked with the same people for all the previous shoots I've done. So it was a lot of investigating a lot of asking around, but I found amazing, talented, and just really exceptionally amazing creatives collaborate with on this. And it was such a- such an amazing experience. It was really fun and it was also all mostly women. It just felt very refreshing. Everyone instantly got along and it felt like we had all worked together for years. I had only met the photographer once, I’d never met any of the other crew, but it was just this instant comfort. And everyone was so talented.

I am so excited to be able to see the photos!

They’re amazing! I mean the whole team really just worked together so well. Our hair and makeup artist was only 18 and the way she worked, the way she made her visions come to life was so amazing. It was really- for lack of a better word- magical. Working with people like yourself, there’s an instantly familiarity.

Do you see yourself working with them in the future?

Oh god yes! To be able to put together a crew like that, to be able to give an opportunity to everyone on that set, there’s nothing better than that. I absolutely want to work with them again in the future. It was the chance I wish I had been given, and to be able to have given it to someone else- there’s nothing like it.

Play video

In look 1 Amalie wears, DRESS: Philosophy di Lorenzo Serafini. TOP: Philosophy di Lorenzo Serafini. SHORTS: Philosophy di Lorenzo Serafini

In look 2 Amalie wears, DRESS: Stephanie Uhart.

In look 3 Amalie wears, DRESS: Acne. SHOES: Acne. JEWLERY: Acne

In look 4 Amalie wears, TOP: Rencorporation. SKIRT: Rencorporation. JEWELRY: AI STUDIOS

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Inside PALY: A Conversation with James Franco and Kyle Lindgren

December 23, 2024

Kyle Lindgren and James Franco didn’t set out to create just another fashion brand when they launched PALY. Instead, they wanted to fuse their distinct worlds—cinema, storytelling, and design—into something that felt both personal and universally relatable.

Franco, an artist and filmmaker, brings his passion for storytelling to PALY, turning garments into canvases for narrative. His deep love for pop culture and film history infuses the brand’s aesthetic, with reimagined icons and cinematic references that add layers of depth to each collection.

Lindgren, whose roots in skatewear influence the brand’s design philosophy, found a unique synergy in Franco’s expansive archive of sketches. Together, their collaboration transformed what began as personal sketches for friends into a fully realized brand that blends creativity with practicality.

Simon Rasmussen and Enzo Holdt from Office Magazine sat down with James Franco and Kyle Lindgren to explore their creative process, sources of inspiration, and what’s next for PALY. While James Franco was late to join the call, the conversation offered plenty of insights.

Here’s what they had to say.

Interview by Simon Rasmussen and Enzo Holdt
Introduction by Enzo Holdt
Photography by Owen Kolasinski, Ryan Murray and Mark Anthony Blanco

Simon Rasmussen: Kyle, nice to meet you. How’s it going?

Kyle Lindgren: Hey, man. Good, good.

James always got Google Meet issues. But I’ll text him—he’s usually a couple minutes late.

Simon Rasmussen: How did you and James first meet?

Kyle Lindgren: Through mutual friends—classic L.A. story. My friend was close with his girlfriend, and we just kept crossing paths at art galleries and film events. During COVID, we ended up connecting more. I think he was writing a script loosely inspired by The Bachelor.

Simon Rasmussen: That’s a solid show.

Kyle Lindgren: Right? I mean, it started as research, but we all got hooked. Every week, friends would come over to watch The Bachelor at James' place. Actually, now that I think about it, this is kind of the origin story of PALY. I’d just come back from my day job at the Fucking Awesome, and James would be sitting there doodling in his notebook while we watched.

One night, I asked to see some of his sketches, and from there, I started experimenting. I’d wake up at 5 a.m. every day before work, watch YouTube tutorials on Photoshop, and just crank out designs. I wasn’t good at graphic design then—most of the stuff I made was terrible, looking back. But a couple of those pieces actually saw the light of day. I’d mock up t-shirts using James’s sketches and try different techniques I learned online. Eventually, we made about 30 designs, printed them all, and brought them to our Bachelor group. Everyone voted on which ones we should produce, and that became our first unofficial collection.

Simon Rasmussen: So this all started in 2020?

Kyle Lindgren: More like 2021. By that time, James had built up a pretty solid archive of sketches. During the pandemic, he started this ritual of sketching in a notebook every day. His assistant would scan everything, so when we began seriously creating designs—initially just for our friends—there were already 1,000 or 2,000 drawings to work with.

Now we’ve got over 8,000. He goes through a notebook every couple of weeks. It’s crazy.

(At this point, James Franco joins the conversation...)

James Franco: Hey, sorry I’m late. What’s up? I’m out of it. I’m only in LA for five days, so I just… yeah, I just got back. Sorry about that.

What were you guys talking about?

Kyle Lindgren: We were just talking about how you’d sketch during Bachelor nights and how that turned into our first designs.

James Franco: Oh, yeah. That’s funny to think about. It really started so casually during COVID. Well keep going.

Simon Rasmussen: So it really began during those watch parties?

Kyle Lindgren: Yeah, in the most random way. It wasn’t some planned thing; it just came together naturally.

Kyle Lindgren: I had forgotten that it all circled back to The Bachelor—when we used to sit and watch it every week. I think I was talking about how when we started mocking things up, we had maybe a couple thousand drawings. The last time I counted we had about 7,000. That was a year ago, and now we’re probably at 14,000. It’s been super helpful for designs.

James Franco: Yeah, I don’t know what Kyle’s told you, but we’ve known each other for years now. I’d gone to art school a long time ago, but I hadn’t been drawing or painting for years. During the pandemic, I read How to Be an Artist by Jerry Saltz. It’s a simple book, but really smart, with practical ideas about creativity. One suggestion was to draw every day. With acting on hold, I thought, Okay, I’ll create a schedule for myself, even if there are no art shows or concrete goals in sight.

I started sketching while we’d watch The Bachelor—initially as research for a script I was writing about LA TV.

Simon Rasmussen: So it started as research?

James Franco: Yeah, and then it became an addiction. My girlfriend’s the real reality TV addict now—she’s deep into The Real Housewives. I couldn’t hang with that; it’s like Dostoevsky-length reality TV. But The Bachelor didn’t require much focus, so I’d sketch while we all watched. Then Kyle asked me to draw on some denim. I did a couple of jackets, and our friends thought they were cool and started bringing their own jackets for me to customize.

Kyle saw potential in the drawings and started mocking up t-shirts. He scanned the sketches and printed them onto shirts. We ended up with a bunch of samples, laid them out in the kitchen, and had our friends vote on which ones were best. That became our first collection: eight t-shirts and a few hoodies and crewnecks.

Simon Rasmussen: When did this happen?

Kyle Lindgren: We showed the collection for Spring/Summer ’24, so by June 2023, we were in Paris.

James Franco: Before that, we didn’t have any store connections. Kyle lived near H. Lorenzo in LA, so we walked in with our stuff. It was like a scene from a movie. Lorenzo and his son, Mack, were there. Lorenzo was like, Okay, show me what you’ve got. Put it on the racks. They went through every piece, deciding which ones to take. It was all consignment, but they sold everything.

After that, we went to Paris for Men’s Week. We rented a hotel room and emailed stores, introducing ourselves as Kyle and James Franco. Honestly, I think some people thought it was a scam.

Kyle Lindgren: We didn’t want to market it as a “celebrity brand,” but that was probably the one time we used James’ name—just to get people to come look.

James Franco: Hey, Kyle, go back to the origin spot. What was in your brain when we started, I can't even remember?

Kyle Lindgren: Honestly, I think I just had this tunnel vision about apparel. Back then, everything I saw—sketches, objects, even random stuff like a leaf on the street—felt like it could be applied to fashion. It’s a bit corny, but I was constantly thinking, How can this become a shirt, or inspire a collection? Like so dumb.

It was really just like a daily practice. James was doing his daily drawings. I was doing my little daily mockups every morning before work. We never really forced anything. It also didn't come easy, like having a celebrity attached. Because that wasn’t the front-facing thing, we didn’t really take many shortcuts. It almost made it harder because we had this thing we were trying to conceal. We didn’t want it to damage the brand and wanted the design to stand on its own.

James Franco: At MRKT during Basel, people came in loving PALY without knowing I was involved. I was even drawing on denim at the party, and some kids didn’t realize it was me until later. It’s kind of fun being in the background like that.

Simon Rasmussen: So, why do you choose to tell the story now?

James Franco: There’s part of me that really liked the idea of it being kind of a hidden thing. Because, as opposed to acting, where I can’t escape it—it’s just like, boom, there I am; it’s my face that’s in the work—this was different. There was something appealing about a kind of Elena Ferrante or Banksy thing.

But I think we just figured: a) it wasn’t going to remain hidden forever. I was already meeting with all the stores, doing events. I wasn’t going to keep showing up to things in secret. And b) we realized the selling point wasn’t me. People liked the product. So, it wasn’t about leveraging celebrity; the design stood on its own.

Simon Rasmussen: Was Hollywood always part of the vision?

Kyle Lindgren: Yeah, it’s central to James’s art. His work reflects Hollywood history and its darker underbelly, so it became the natural throughline for the brand. When I placed his drawings into the context of the designs, Hollywood’s mystique tied everything together.

Simon Rasmussen: Is there a message to Hollywood in the brand?

James Franco: I wouldn’t call it a direct message or critique. It’s not like one of those tourist t-shirts that says, “This place sucks.” It’s more about transformation. There’s an underground filmmaker, Kenneth Anger, who really influenced me. He wrote Hollywood Babylon, a book full of overblown gossip and tragedy that turned Hollywood’s mystique into something almost mythical, like a quasi-religion. He collaborated with people like Mick Jagger but also explored Hollywood’s darker, mystical side.

Anger’s work was about taking the glamour and icons of Hollywood and making them reference something bigger—both its light and dark sides. That’s what I see PALY doing, too: not critiquing Hollywood but diving into it and amplifying its mystery and power. It’s about letting Hollywood represent something universal, something that fascinates us about humanity.

A lot of artists I admire, like Paul McCarthy, Harmony Korine, and Douglas Gordon, used Hollywood as material to create something new. For me, it’s similar—I grew up in Hollywood, but through art and now fashion, I can step outside of it. I’m in a unique position where I can use Hollywood as a lens, not just to critique it but to reimagine it and turn it into something fresh.

Simon Rasmussen: It's a very interesting place, you guys position yourselves. Luxury brands are increasingly positioning themselves as entertainment channels, aiming to compete with top Hollywood productions. Brands like Louis Vuitton and Saint Laurent are focused on creating films, taking on the role of filmmakers to rival major directors.

James Franco: Yeah, I noticed that trend at Cannes this year. Saint Laurent Productions had like four films there.

Simon Rasmussen: It’s fascinating how brands are trying to imitate Hollywood. It's very interesting. You're onto something.

James Franco: Exactly. I was just watching Queer by Luca Guadagnino last night, and Loewe's designer did all the costume design.

Enzo Holdt: The collection you just launched at Art Basel features reimagined posters of films like Paris, Texas, Blue Velvet, and Drugstore Cowboy. These movies explore themes of alienation, so I wanted to ask, James, why did you choose these specific films/posters to work on?

James Franco: There are a few reasons. On a practical level, Kyle sources these vintage posters, so part of it depends on what he finds. But when I saw these oversized, beautiful pieces, I initially hesitated—like, should I even draw on them? Then I thought, well, that's kind of what I do. When I was in Italy recently promoting a film, I spent a lot of time signing posters, so in a way, this felt like an extension of that—adding to the poster, not destroying it.

As for the films themselves, Kyle and I often develop themes for each collection, whether it's an old legend, a tragedy, or a myth. For example, in Miami, there’s a nod to Dorothy Stratton’s tragic story, which inspired Star 80. With Paris, Texas and Drugstore Cowboy, I have a personal connection, having worked with Wim Wenders and Gus Van Sant. And Blue Velvet, for me, is iconic—David Lynch at his best. It’s the movie where he fully became Lynch, balancing a polished surface and then underneath is the subconscious and the darkness. And in a way, I think that's our company, those multiple levels. So that movie, just like Kenneth Anger, is super special to me and Kyle.

And beyond that, these films share a certain kind of Americana, capturing a raw, rugged underbelly of America that resonates deeply with what we’re building.

Enzo Holdt: Kyle, when I look at PALY’s designs, I see a strong punk influence, which might come from your time at Fucking Awesome. But the combination of that with Hollywood—something far more glamorous and alluring—feels contrasting yet creates something really beautiful. Could you talk about that?

Kyle Lindgren: Definitely. My time at Fucking Awesome taught me a lot, particularly about working with an artist’s vision and translating it into three-dimensional forms.

Enzo Holdt: You’re referring to Jason Dill?

Kyle Lindgren: Yes, Jason. We’d dig through his archive of artwork and find creative ways to bring it to life. That experience taught me how to add depth to a collection, not just through storytelling—like what James brings—but also through the techniques we use.

With PALY, there’s a real emphasis on storytelling. James drives that narrative side, but we also make sure the garments physically tell a story. Techniques like crystals, embroidery, washes, and distressing aren’t just decorative—they give each piece a sense of history, as if the wear and details reflect where the garment has been.

Ultimately, we merge these elements into a cohesive whole, where the designs carry both visual and emotional depth.

Enzo Holdt: It sounds like PALY’s storytelling and approach are very tactile. Would you describe it as an analog brand in a digital world?

Kyle Lindgren: That’s a deep question. For me, I’m so involved in the day-to-day that it’s hard to step back and see the brand from a broader perspective. James is much better at looking at the whole picture, whereas I’m more focused on the physical product—the fabrication, techniques, washes, all of that.

In that sense, the brand feels analog to me. Maybe it’s because I’m getting older, but I naturally think product-first, rather than prioritizing social media or digital campaigns. That’s what creates a nice balance between James and me. His background is rooted in media and storytelling, whereas I’m more hands-on and product-oriented. Together, it creates a dynamic mix.

James Franco: I love that, and I’ll just add something quickly. About ten years ago, I did a project with MOCA in L.A. based on Rebel Without a Cause. The project, Rebel, involved different artists reinterpreting parts of the film or its behind-the-scenes stories to create new work.

That’s what I appreciate about PALY. It’s not about critiquing Hollywood; it’s about re-engaging with it and giving it new life. I love how old movies still resonate—fan clubs, special screenings, places like the New Beverly—and how they continue to bring people together.

Through PALY, we’re doing something similar. We’re not remaking Drugstore Cowboy, but we’re reanimating its essence. These stories and legends get a new form through the clothes—new iconography, new imagery. It’s like the narrative is reborn, letting people connect with those stories in a fresh way. You’re not just watching the movie; you’re experiencing it again, but differently, through what you wear.

Enzo Holdt: You have mentioned Kenneth Anger a few times, what is your favorite project of his? I just watched Lucifer Rising for the first time, and it felt a bit occult, but I thought it was pretty good.

James Franco: Lucifer Rising definitely has a dark backstory.

Enzo Holdt: Yeah, I read about the music and the composer was connected to the Manson family, right?

James Franco: Exactly. Beausoleil was the first member of the Manson family to be arrested. He wasn’t involved in the Sharon Tate murders but was tied to an earlier one. There’s a whole history there—he and Kenneth Anger had a falling out, and supposedly, Beausoleil stole some of the film reels for Lucifer Rising and buried them in the desert.

Enzo Holdt: That’s wild.

James Franco: For me, Scorpio Rising is still my favorite Kenneth Anger project. I first saw it in film school, and it completely blew me away. What stood out was the way he used pop hits of the time as a soundtrack, set against contrasting and provocative visuals.

What really struck me, though, was how Anger, as a queer artist, captured a real biker gang and transformed their image. Instead of coming across as purely tough and hyper-masculine, they take on this sensual, almost queer quality through his lens. That idea of transforming your subject through how you shoot it really resonated with me. It influenced my early short films at NYU and is still something I think about in my work today.

Enzo Holdt: What has been the most rewarding part of building PALY together?

James Franco: For me, the most rewarding part has been the collaboration. I’ve always loved working with others—it’s something I learned from being an actor and making films, where every project involves so many people coming together. Working with Kyle has felt really natural, and it’s been this beautiful, symbiotic process.

I tend to want to do too much—I overload scripts, shoot too many scenes, and put in more than necessary. When I direct movies, editors and producers help me refine things, and Kyle plays a similar role for PALY. He’s like an editor, filtering my tendency to go overboard and helping shape all these ideas into something cohesive and better.

As an artist, having a collaborator or editor you trust is invaluable. It’s what I’ve always envied about teams like the Coen Brothers—someone to bounce ideas off of and build something together. That’s what we’ve created here, and it’s incredibly rewarding.

Kyle Lindgren: I’d have to echo that—it’s the collaboration. Being able to bounce ideas back and forth until they evolve into something unexpected is such a special process. Often, it’s a struggle to get there, but when you trust your partner, even if it’s just starting on a two-dimensional screen, you create something far better than you could have on your own. For me, that’s the most rewarding part of this whole journey.