Finding Bliss with Josie Ho

office — How was New York?

Jasmine Rodgers — Both shows were really, really, really lovely. Warsaw is gorgeous venue and they looked after us really well. Great sound. People were singing along and being really engaged. It was amazing. While we were in town, I found out that, as a child, I took my first steps in New York. 

What were you doing there?  

JR — Walking [laughs] My dad’s a musician and he was touring, so I was there with my family. 

Big full circle moment. So when bôa started in the early 90s, there were six of you. Now it’s just the three of you. Does it feel any different? 

JR — We’ve gone through a lot of life, as you do. And the world has changed a lot. And we didn’t have the Internet to such a degree. When we first started, online streaming wasn’t even happening. When we released the first album, it had only started happening. So that global aspect of music — as much as it’s lovely, it wasn’t quite as present. Sharing music wasn’t as immediate then as it is now. Social media has changed things. But in terms of songwriting, we all just gelled. 

Lee Sullivan — Right back into the same groove. 

Even 20 years later? It was just kind of always there?

JR — The parameters have changed so much. It’s just a much bigger kettle of cake that we’re dealing with now. We’re proper touring and playing venues that are bigger. It’s just different. We had a lot of popularity because of Lain, so we’ve had a really strong, supportive fanbase for years. But they were always international. We didn’t to experience the audience quite in the way we experience them now. People can drop us an Instagram message or comment on something we’ve posted on TikTok. And then when we’re at shows, we’re actually meeting people and everyone’s singing along, so we’re getting to hear them and experience them too. 

LS — When we were in the States the first time around we didn’t have TikTok, the only time we actually really connected with our fans was right before or after the show signing a few things. 

And now you can see people recording covers of your song. 

JR — One of the things I’ve noticed the most — you know how you have music that’s a soundtrack to something you’ve enjoyed? Nowadays, people show that in a story form. So, you get to see how your music is part of their landscape, of their memories. 

Did you guys always plan on being bôa? Did you always plan on coming back together and playing more shows and releasing another album? 

JR — No, we had all gone our ways doing different things. I retrained, went to university, I was doing solo music. We did a 21st anniversary show for Lain where we sort of caught up and started jamming and we realized…

LS — It worked. 

So you never really had to relearn how to be a band, did you? 

LS — It was simmering very, very low.

JR — In terms of sound, I think we’re a lot more streamlined. And the songwriting process this time was different, in the sense we turned this around really quite quickly. It feels like about a million years, but from the moment we set foot in the rehearsal studio to start writing with each other — to now, it’s been about two and a half years — which isn’t actually that much when you think about how we hadn’t written anything and then we were immediately coming up with ideas. 

How did this reunion come about? Did you all just text each other like, “Let’s get back together?” 

JR — We signed with Nettwerk around late 2021, and they asked us, “Do you want to release old music that you haven’t released before? Or do you want to write a new album?” And we were like… “Oooh…” Then we started in the studio around March or April 2022. 

When you were on your own, were you ever thinking about getting back together? 

JR — Not for me, if I’m really honest. But for Alex and Lee, I think you guys thought about it, but I hadn’t. 

LS — To make an album happen, a lot of things have to come together. 

JR — If we were going to do it, we wanted to do it well. And I think we’ve had really good support to be able to make this album. The label has been the kind of people that we can just ring up and talk to. We had strings because what Paul brought to the music was really important to us. And having that dynamic in what the new album was really important. But that’s a lot more to consider. That means working with other artists to deliver, but we did and it was great. We worked with Chris Zane who’s from “New Yoik.” That was my New York accent…

It was definitely an accent…

JR — It was an accent! [laughs]

LS — It was…

JR — I probably couldn’t do a better one. 

It’s ok

JR — Chris is excellent. He’s probably seeking therapy from working with us but we enjoy working with him. And it turned out really well, and now we’ve got a really lovely band with us performing. I think what we've got to deliver live is actually quite close to what we've done on the album. It's kind of unusual to be able to take that on tour with us. 

I'm glad people are supporting the vision. 

JR — So am I. 

Do you have any favorites off the album? 

JR — I like “Strange Few,” “Seafarer,” “Walk With Me,” and “Whiplash.” Quite a few of them.

LS — I like all of them, but “Frozen” is my favorite at the moment. 

I was listening and I like that it’s on Whiplash but “Frozen” could’ve been on Twilight.

JR — Yeah it does actually, you’re right. Which one’s your favorite — not to put you on the spot.

It might be “Frozen” or “Worry.”

JR — “Worry” is really fun to sing. 

With Whiplash, I don’t want to say your sound hasn’t changed — it’s definitely matured and grown, but it’s very obviously the same band. Do you think you’re still singing about the things you were singing about back then? 

JR — Without sounding like a wanker, my lyrics are still very much about identity as a woman growing up in what’s kind of the male space of music. We were laughing the other day because somebody was asking what’s changed for me — being in the music industry from then to now. And I’m like, “There’s actually toilet seats on the toilets!” [laughs]

LS — And they’re clean and there’s toilet paper! [laughs]

JR — In terms of identity and inclusion, it's understanding that it’s not just that I exist, but that I have a right to exist. And that’s an important thing. People have written to us about things they’re questioning, or they say that they feel comforted by the music. So, when I’ve been writing the lyrics, I’m also aware that maybe they might be being heard by somebody other than me. And maybe I want them to feel that somebody else feels that way too — that I can relate to them. It’s still very intimate, it’s still very much about my heart, my feelings and my thoughts — my process of dealing with things. I’m still very angry about things that trouble me and things happening around the world. There’s a disconnect between what I want us all to be as humans and what I can’t manage to be during a day. My lyrics are all very well me talking about being peaceful, but I’m generally quite grumpy. 

LS — But the intention’s there. 

JR — The intention’s there. It’s this constant trying to realign yourself with what the world is and to try to fit in. To be fair, I’m making it more complex. It’s generally about breakups and breakdowns and divorces.

When is it not? 

How’s touring now versus 20 years ago? 

JR — Back then they were a lot more rowdy.

LS — Yeah. In a nice way

JR — No [laughs] We’re very grateful that we’re not having to do that again. It was a lot more groundwork. We were just shoving everything in the van and piling over the luggage. This is a lot more civilized. 

LS — There’s hotels and everything.

JR — And toilet seats! But I think the main thing to remember is that we’ve had many years of people enjoying the music and building their own relationship to it. And I know that, along the way, I meet musicians who I’ve really valued and who’ve helped me create memories. But equally, they’re the audience, and they’re still the kind of people that we’d probably go and have a cup of tea with. Down to earth, salt of the earth, good people

I’m pleasantly surprised at that, because for a lot of musicians with a solid online presence, fans feel connected to them in ways they haven't before, and they don’t know how to act about it. People are showing up at their favorite artist's parents' houses.

JR — They’re not like that. They’re respectful. People who are trying to find their place in the world are less likely to invade your space. So we’re all just circling each other gently. 

LS — Maneuvering around each other. 

JR — The interactions will be like, “Like your music! Cool! Bye!” [laughs]

LS — And we’ll just be like, “Thanks!” 

JR — It’s nothing as intense.

LS — They’re not ripping things off as keepsakes. They’re very polite, very humble. 

JR — And as I say on a day to day basis, I’m quite grumpy, so I don’t think anyone would dare. 

LS — That’s… She’s not really…

JR — I’m not…

It’s ok, I can tell you’re joking. And I’m glad no one’s like, ripping the doors off your tour bus. 

JR — Oh, so are we. 

LS — Wouldn’t be able to deal with that stress, to be honest. 

What are you most excited for? 

LS — My bedroom [laughs] No, this tour is really fun. We’re really looking forward to going to Ireland for a little while. We’re in Manchester tonight, then Leeds, which is great — one of my hometowns, and then Ireland. 

JR — Dublin and then Brighton

LS — And then London

JR — Looking forward to that. Looking forward to going to Australia, which we’ll be doing at the end of November. And then we’re going around Europe in February. 

Any places you’re playing for the first time?

JR — Yeah, all of them. We’re also going to be touring around the States again. We’re allowed to say that now, aren’t we? 

[They are]

JR — We’ll be back in the States around May-ish, so we’ll be in New York again.

I’ll try and be in town for that one

JR — You’ll be more than welcome

I assume you’ve been doing a lot of press for the new album — has it gotten exhausting yet? Or has it just been fun to talk about the album? 

JR — There’s joy in being able to wax lyrical about our writing process. And it helps make the album feel more real. Because until we have it physically in our hands, it’s just a thing that’s online. We’ve heard the album — quite a few times [laughs] — but we haven’t gotten one. We know what it sounds like so we’re like, “Yay, it’s good!” We think it’s good.