Welcome Home, Blonde Redhead

September 30, 2023

Back in the 90s, Blonde Redhead took New York by storm. They weren’t quite shoegaze and they weren’t quite grunge, but they were more than captivating enough. Some people tried to say that they were another iteration of Sonic Youth, but Blonde Redhead responded with a resounding “no way,” securing their place as one of the most influential bands of the zeitgeist. But they never expected to be famous, and they never wanted to be. Music was never a means to an end, but a way of survival.

Yesterday, Blonde Redhead released their first album in ten years, Sit Down For Dinner. But time hasn’t weighed them down. As driven as ever, we sat down with Kazu Makino, Simone, and Amedeo Pace to talk old dogs, Joan Didion, the smells of the city; Americans, reincarnation, and the importance of walking down the street.

Text and interview Izzy Capulong
Photos Charles Billot

Kazu Makino– It's been a hectic morning.

office– Yeah, what's been going on?

KM– Well, just a lot of things that need to get done. Also, my dog has an upset stomach. She's 18 years old and quite picky with her food. I’m trying to give her what she wants to eat rather than what she should be eating.

I have two older dogs. If you take their dry kibble and mix in like peas and carrots and a little bit of chicken, they really like it. But they're not 18. That's crazy. Your dog is almost as old as me.

KM– That's… wow. She is me. She's really unbelievable, but still quite opinionated and stubborn. You know this, it’s not the spirit that dies down, it’s the body. Your spirit doesn’t get old, she’s my living proof of that.

Anyways, pet care aside. how did you guys all meet?

KM– People knew me as a musician so they brought me over from Japan. They were putting me through this testing period, letting me play and do my thing. But people knew me, and I had plenty of gig offers. So I was trying to find a band, instead of just always playing with different people. A mutual friend told me that he knew the right people, so I met Amedeo and Simone and that’s how we started.

Initially, it was just me and Amedeo playing together but really quickly we started playing shows and that’s when Simone joined. It’s funny. Amedeo was like, “I know this really good drummer, it just happens to be my brother. Do you want to give it a go?” And I’d never met twins before, so I smelled trouble. It was too unknown, and it felt like a bad idea, so I resisted for a while. But we started playing live shows immediately. We didn’t even have a name, it was a problem– we’d have a show but wouldn’t know how to advertise. So we just had to come up with a name. And I remember I was in a taxi and said, “What do American people like?” Because nobody knew us, and we just wanted people to come. I was like, “They like blonde people or red-haired people.” It was funny, because all of us have dark hair. I never thought it would last this long [laughs]

They do love their blondes. Amedeo and Simone, how did you feel when you first met Kazu?

KM– Was I difficult? [laughs]

Simone Pace– It was such a long time ago, but it felt great. Ame came home and was just like, “I just played guitar with this girl, she has such a great voice” and blah, blah, blah, and I was like, “Wow, that’s excellent.” Didn’t you guys play shows before I was in the band?

Amedeo Pace– Yeah, we played a bit. She and I met, and Kazu started to play often at the Knitting Factory.

KM– I remember playing weird shows around here. But we were just doing random things. I wasn’t even singing, I was reading! [laughs] I don’t know what I was thinking. But we tried everything.

SP– But it was interesting. There were some strange things Kazu would do [laughs]–like, the only time she would smoke cigarettes would be in this tiny rehearsal space that we had, which was about four square feet.

It was funny because all of us have dark hair. I never thought it would last this long

What's it been like staying together for three decades now?

KM– It doesn't even really feel that long. It was always hard, but I don't feel the weight of time as much. It doesn't really weigh me down. I wish time went by a little slower, but goes by super fucking fast.

So you have really no frame of reference. You don't know what it's like to be in something for three decades, because this is all it's been.

KM– Exactly. I have nothing to compare to. I never had a job and it never bothered me that I didn't have certain things. I didn't go into music to thrive, or get ahead in my career. I was never climbing any ladder– it didn’t feel like that. Music was an escape, you know?

I mean, you guys sort of ended up on top of the ladder, whether you expected to or not.

KM– Yeah, just like a tiny ladder. Maybe not even the two steps on the ladder [laughs].

So talk to me about this new project, “Sit Down For Dinner.” Where does the name come from?

KM– It comes from this one song we have on the album. It’s such a pain in the ass to come up with an album title. Your music– it’s not the kind of thing you want to put a name to, because it feels too final. You want to just keep evolving, you never want to say anything’s finished, because it could always be better. But at a certain point, you have to put it down, you have to give it a name. It’s not something that I feel is very rewarding, because it’s the part that’s like, “Oh, we have to stop now.” But the name is the name. “Sit Down For Dinner.”

I read somewhere that you got the title from this one passage of Joan Didion’s work on grief, where she was talking about watching her husband die at the dinner table. Is that true?

KM– Yes. Yes. Yes.

So what about the album made you want to reference Joan Didion seeing her husband croak while eating?

KM– That was the book I picked up when we were writing the songs– total freak accident. It was The Year of Magical Thinking, and I thought it was going to totally enhance me, but it was the most miserable book I ever picked up, and I had no idea. That's what her genius is– she uses the worst moment of her life to give her positive thinking. That’s also where the title comes from. “Sit Down For Dinner” is a super positive song, it’s very groovy, it’s light, and it moves. It’s a vibrant song, but the lyrics are insanely dark. I’ve never done that before, but I’m really pleased with it.

It made me think about the pandemic, when a lot of people couldn’t come home to eat with their families. I can’t remember the last time I sat down for dinner with my parents. And you, Amedeo, and Simone are all spread out, but this album is your first time coming together in 10 years. It’s that feeling of coming home, of being able to sit around the same table. It’s quite sweet.

KM– I like that a lot. I shouldn't be talking about what it means to me, because I don't want to influence people too much. That’s what’s so great about the album– people can just anticipate and read into it.

I didn't go into music to thrive, or get ahead in my career. I was never climbing any ladder

So again, it’s been ten years since your last album. In your creation process, has anything changed since that last project?

AP– We've been getting more familiar with recording and doing things on our own, which was difficult when we started making music. So with the pandemic, we were actually able to continue working remotely, sending stuff to each other.

Anything new you’ve tried out?

AP– No new tricks or techniques– we’re mostly just trying to figure out how to capture something in the music. Since the beginning, we’ve always tried to figure out a way of making interesting music, and that’s been ongoing for us. Seeing what feels good for the song– that’s what we’re constantly battling with, what feels good, what feels timeless, and what feels natural.

KM– For me, it's more about capturing what I feel right now. I think that's why I don't have a sense of time, because I'm just thinking about what’s happening now. How can I bring out what’s inside right now, today? That’s how I kind of move, you know? For this album, I was thinking, “I’m not gonna suffer for this one. I want to have a good time, I want to stick it out, and I want to execute everything the way I want.” I don’t want my ideas to be pushed over, washed over, you know? It’s something that happens quite often. When I send a demo and I’m told, “It’s not good enough, the vocals aren’t good enough, it’s poor quality, you need to redo it.” I’ve done things in tears because I didn’t think I could deliver, or because I didn’t want to do what they were asking.

But for this one, all that mattered was that I was happy. I wanted the same for Amedeo. I wanted to encourage him to go through with what he wanted to express. And it was quite amazing, and I left him alone. And one day, I was mixing with Simone and I was like, “Did he just say ‘snowman?’” I was really blown away that he could say that, and put that word into the song. I was totally amazed. And with Simone’s mixing, he really takes his time. It’s so fresh that, even after ten albums, he’d still take his time. It’s so brilliant. I’m glad you guys are having fun with it. I think after 30 years, you’re allowed to do whatever you want with an album. You get to say, “I’m making this album for myself and not for anyone else.”

And it’s cool that you have maintained the sound that made a lot of people fall in love with you in the first place– that very, sparkly, shoegazey, twinkly, almost far away type of sound.

KM– That's great. “Far away.” That quality you’re talking about– we want that. We say, “We want it windy,” like we’re playing outdoors and the drums are getting washed away. I really love that.

I'm not gonna suffer for this one

What’s the meaning of “Before?” I know it’s sort of about a kid who kind of knows everything, but I also get the vibe there’s hints of reincarnation.

KM– Yeah it's true. Some kids are just like that, just so knowing and so wise. Sometimes you just look a kid in the eyes and you think, “What do you know?” I wanted to have the chorus be sung by a bunch of kids going really crazy, but I couldn’t organize that because of the pandemic. But the song became kind of a writing exercise for me. I wanted to put the word “before” in the song as many times as possible. I kind of get stuck like that, with my own games that I make up.

When you're writing lyrics, is it an individual project or is it something you all collaborate on?

KM– It’s only me, and that’s ok because who wants to waste time, watching me write lyrics? There’s a lot of things I do at home, even melodies. I think you need to feel really, quite alone to put in real work. “Melody Experiment” was a good example, because we had that song laying around for a long time and we couldn’t wait. I just had this enlightenment, where I realized, “Oh, I know how I want to sing.” And Amedeo and Simone were like, “Yeah, let’s do it now!” So I started writing it down but I was laughing and cursing at them. I think the same thing happened with “Golden Light.” I wrote that in front of them and they were like, “C’mon, do it!–” it was like sports. But even they got tired and left, but I worked all night to perfect it. We had another song where I had to write outside the studio, sitting on the stairs.

AP– For that song, the melody was all done. I just had a hard time figuring, I mean, I had written lyrics but I didn't really like what I wrote, and Kazu has this really good way of writing. It’s a bigger struggle for me than it is for her, she’s very natural with it. And it takes me a really long time to figure out what I want to say and how to say it– how to convey my feelings into music, into words.

KM– But when he does it's really good. So I'm not complaining,

I wanted to make a name for myself. I didn’t want to become famous because of who I knew

Last question– you guys started out in New York in the 90s. What do you think is different about the music scene today? Is there anything the same?

KM– We were never part of the scene, you know? We weren’t cool enough [laughs], I think we were quite isolated. We didn’t settle, but whenever we’d find a community, it would be outside New York. We were often in Olympia, Washington and made some records. But New York was necessary, because none of us are American, and we couldn’t really survive anywhere else but New York– culturally. But musically, people who supported us were never from New York. I mean, the studio we were working with gave us this really magic moment. But part of me didn’t want to become famous.

You know how New York is quite about money and fame and power. At all levels, some people were shameless name-droppers– I didn’t want to do that. I had this chip on my shoulder, and I wanted to make a name for myself. I didn’t want to become famous because of who I knew. I made a point of not being part of something bigger than us. At the beginning, a lot of people were like, “Oh, these are babies, these are kids.” And I kind of ran away from them. We were so different from them, because their background was really, really American– it’s culturally different. It would mean the death of us to try to copy that.

That’s definitely something we don’t hear about– non-American musicians in New York. Unfortunately, I think there’s a reason and it’s because a lot of what was happening in New York in the 90s wasn’t exactly conducive for people who weren’t already woven into that scene, which sucks. But I’m glad you guys were able to make your way through without it. Because it sounds like it’s the same today– when I hear people talk about New York in the 90s, for as much praise as they have for it, they talk about how exhausting it was, in the same way it is now. It’s name-droppy, it’s cliquey, it’s social-climby.

AP– I don't know about Simone, but for me, when we moved, we were struggling to find places to practice. But we had some pretty great places that came by, just because of the way New York was. You'd find this guy who talked to this guy who'd say, "Oh, I have a space down on Prince Street and you guys can practice there." We had a lot of friends, even if we weren't really going to shows. We did see some really important shows, like My Bloody Valentine and Pavement. At the time, those were very eye-opening to us in a way of how to make music. But it was more the magic of New York and how things were working. You could go out one night and all this stuff could happen, which was very unexpected and very beautiful in a way.

It’s culturally different. It would mean the death of us to try to copy that

SP– When we came, we were taking a lot more chances than now, in the sense that we really embraced the city so much more than we do at the moment. We were just really hungry to get something done. And the fact that we met each other was really lucky. But I had every single job you could think of and that was all to support the band. I kept thinking, “I’m gonna do this, I don’t have to think of this as a job because my job is going to be the band.” So in my mind, everything that was happening was toward strengthening the band, and New York offered so many opportunities to be able to get there.

I’m really grateful that we were there because, it was this mix of love and hate, because I’d be so exhausted, but at the end of the day, there were so many things that had me thinking, “Wow, this is incredible.” So we really embraced the city. It wasn’t easy. At the beginning, we were just playing on the street, just to make money to pay rent. The rent was really low still, but we had to pay it [laughs]. But we paid our dues, and for that moment, the city was great. It’s different, but I’m sure there are people like us who are doing what we were doing at the time.

KM– A month ago, we went to this burger place where the chef used to be in a punk rock band that we’d tour with– so we’d get a little bit of a loyalty treatment [laughs]. We were in a booth and looking around, laughing because it was as if time hadn’t passed. It was exactly the same type of people we grew up with, but it was as if they stayed the same age. It’s the next generation, but nothing’s changed. We felt like we knew them all.

SP– There’s a few places in New York that still attract that old-school type of crowd. But a lot has changed too.

We were just really hungry to get something done. And the fact that we met each other was really lucky

KM– I've never seen a city change so quickly. New York is NYU right now, it’s being taken over. It’s a complete invasion. It’s crazy, I mean, I didn’t know any student except you now, but they come out of nowhere. But you’re almost done [laughs]

Yeah, it’s gonna suck not getting that student discount, but I do hate how the school treats the city.

KM– I'm not complaining about NYU [laughs]

You can. I won’t blame you and I won’t disagree.

KM– With so many people studying, so much of the population is transient. They’re not gonna stick around, and they know that. It almost feels as if you’re an islander and you have these waves of tourists who are jacking up prices. Rent has become so high, but so many apartments come and go.

It’s weird when people talk about New York as a pit stop. They’re like, “I’m gonna finish high school and then I’m gonna go to college and I’m gonna go crazy because it’s New York and then I’m gonna leave.” It’s a big four-year playground, but it’s too expensive to spend four meaningless years here. If you’re looking for personal development, you can really do that anywhere where it’s not as expensive to live. Maybe that’s just me being a hater, but it makes it really hard for the artists who come here with no money, who start from zero, and who still manage to eat and survive and create. For me, I don’t know where else I could go. My job is here, my career is here, this is a good spot for what I want to do with my life. I’m not really seeing this as a stepping stone.

KM– Exactly, because where else could you go? That’s what I was thinking, because if you step outside of New York, America is bleak. California is maybe cool, but I’m still weirded out by how nice everybody is.

AP– I’m in Greenpoint, and when I moved here, it was really nice– quiet. But now, there’s so much construction that it’s overwhelming, and I’m really feeling it. There’s constant noise, and maybe I hear a bird once in a while but there’s constant noise. And I can smell the air. When I go away upstate, it smells so good or doesn’t smell like anything at all, but in the city, there’s a smell to the air.

A nice, heavy stench.

AP– I think, after so many years of being here, I need something different.

KM– You've been saying that for a long time.

AP– Yeah.

Music

CHASING ROY BLAIR

November 18, 2024

For those of us a little too deep in our feels in 2017, Roy Blair was an oasis in an age of uncertainty. It was the era of interpersonal lyricism: vulnerable storytelling set against synth-heavy backdrops tied together with grounding hooks. Lost in the ruins of Spotify, stumbling across artists who brought raw emotion to life, we found ourselves captivated by Blair’s debut album, Cat Heaven. A mind-altering introduction to his genius, the album became the soundtrack to our year—from the joyous highs to the moments where only his words could describe the anxieties we couldn’t articulate. Roy did for us what other artists tried to do.

But then, when we needed him most, he vanished. Fans turned to Reddit deep dives marked with threads like “r/WHERE_IS_ROY_BLAIR?” as rumors swirled about an imminent second album. Years passed. The wait grew longer. But, half a decade later, the rumors proved true.

Intro + Interview by: Cassie Jekanoski
Photography by: Jeret Cheatham

Suddenly, notifications were lighting up phones everywhere: Roy Blair was back with a new project, Chasing Moving Trains. First came “Panavision” — a sweeping accumulation of his past, present, and future. Then, “Strawberry,” an upbeat, serotonin-laced track destined for replays. When the full album finally dropped, it was unmistakable—this was the purest embodiment of Roy Blair yet.

In an exclusive interview with the artist, office sat down with Blair to discuss the long-awaited release of Chasing Moving Trains, the headspace that defined his hiatus, and what lies ahead.

Read on as we delve into the truths behind those restless Reddit threads and answer the questions we’ve all been dying to know the answers to.

CASSIE– It's been a year for me since I've done an interview with somebody, so thank you for taking the time to do this. So first off, hi. How are you doing?

ROY BLAIR– I'm good. Sick. Yeah, just taking it day by day right now, honestly.

Cool. And where are you now?

New York.

Well, first off, I just wanted to say that I've been a fan of your music since literally 2017, 2018, and some of your songs have really just been the soundtrack to some of my happiest/most sentimental memories that I have had over the years. So thank you for sharing your art with us.

That means a lot. Thank you. I mean, it's so nice. I did another interview with someone and it's been half a decade or more, so the people who would be interviewing me are like, "Oh, I listened to your music." And that's so cool. Whereas when I was first doing interviews around Cat Heaven, it was like, "Who are you?" That was more of the vibe.

Damn. I mean, well, yeah, I'm coming out of interview retirement to do this. So let's get into it. So Chasing Moving Trains, what is the significance of this album title for you?

It's a few things. So I would say the main point of it is just always wanting some sort of perfection or the thing that you dream in your head to fully come to life. It’s always chasing this non-existent utopia of achieving what you want to achieve in life. It's sort of, the grass is greener on the other side always, and so you’re never really settling and appreciating what you have in front of you. The steps along the way I think are beautiful and worth just as much of your time, or maybe more of your time, than getting to the final thing. The point of the title is always chasing this ideal that you have in your head. And then the other thing is this is a record about finding yourself and going out into the world and learning more about yourself by meeting more people, by experiencing more things. The title is also literally this- I'm taking so many trains that I'm almost missing the train, if you will.

The train itself.

Yeah, or I'm traveling so much, whether it be on tour or just working on the record. I recorded the record in a few places. It's just this nonstop travel and exploration of the world and in turn yourself as well.

Sick. I feel like as an artist, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's in searching for that end goal, that maybe sometimes you stop to kind of realize where you've been, the different things that you've learned, and the different people that you've met along the way.

Totally.

I got a chance to listen to the album and I've literally been listening nonstop.

That's amazing. Thank you.

It's so good. In the title song itself, you repeat the phrase, "sometimes I can't recognize myself." Is that something that you would want to dive deeper into?

I don't know if anyone else has this experience, but sometimes I think I have a depersonalization, or I think there's an actual phrase for it, where you almost don't feel like you're in your own body. I think the thing I'm talking about is where sometimes you literally feel outside of your body. You're watching a person live your life, and sometimes I think I have that. I think sometimes I can feel so empty or in such a strange place in my life that I almost feel like I'm not recognizing the person I am. I'm not living in the moment or being present that I don't even know sometimes who I am, which is, I think that goes back to that album title and why that's the title track. There's this recurring kind of narrative thread in the record about shadows and reflections. I was trying to connect this surrealism thing where basically- I don't know. I don't want to maybe ruin it or maybe over explain it, but that does tie into this thing I was trying to tell with basically a shadow of me following me, being paranoid about my career, and my life. The main concept is really just that sometimes I literally look in the mirror and be like, I don't know who I'm looking at sometimes because maybe I'm just so out of it, or not in the moment.

Well, would you say that, especially with this new album, would you say that this a cathartic release for you and by putting this album out you're able to recognize yourself and know who you are?

Yeah, I think so for sure. I think in a funny way, spending as much time as I did with this record and falling in and out of love with making it. There was a time where I was kind of just like, “I don't really like making music anymore.” I think I was so stressed about the concept of, "Oh, I have to finish this. People are waiting for this." At this point, I'm off social media and I have to come back at some point. Then it started to pile onto me, and then I was like, "Okay, I'm going to take a step away from this." And then I started DJing in New York. This was summer 2022, and that kind of got me excited again about making music. I started locking back in on the record and I think in a funny way, even the process of making this record was cathartic because I sat with it for so long and I sat away from the audience for so long. This record is so me. You know what I mean? There's no, "Oh, I'm trying to keep up with a system." It's really just me being indulgent in a good way and being confident about it. I think it's definitely cathartic for me.

No, that's sick to hear. I'm glad that all of those different experiences brought you back into making music. But a big question that I feel like many fans are curious about was what you kind of brought up a little bit, but just taking some time in between Cat Heaven and Chasing Moving Trains. Was there anything else that you kind of wanted to bring up that was going through your mind during those years?

Yeah, I mean, the main idea is I started working on this record in January 2019. Well, honestly, I was trying to start the day after I finished Cat Heaven and I think all of 2018 was me trying to figure out what the record was going to be tonally. And then the first song that is on the album that we made was "Garden" and that was December 2018. And then the newest song in the record is 2021.

Which one?

It's "Belmont."

Okay, cool.

Well, that song is actually from 2019, but we flipped it completely. I would say that when I was working on that song, it was much different, and I was working on it a lot in 2021. But technically the newest song is "Strawberry" from Summer 2020 in terms of fresh idea. But I would argue that "Belmont" changed so much that it's almost a different song entirely. We were in London when COVID happened, working on this album, I had just made "Plum," and then the lockdown stuff was really getting serious, and we got back from London the week before everything actually closed. We were going to go to Tokyo, but that got canceled. We were going to go in April, and then it was kind of just like, "So what are we going to do now that there's this big space in between?" But now with as much time that has passed, people haven't fully thought about that being a part of this story.

I mean, it definitely is.

Yeah. And then we started basically picking work back up at the end of 2020. It was a lot of figuring out what I wanted to say that honestly took the most amount of time, just lyrics and also me growing up in real time. Maybe there were songs, ideas, or verses where I felt that was an older version of me, and that didn't really feel like the future of who I am and what I really want to be. The album took this long, might as well make it count, you know? I don't want to put out something just to put out something. At this point it's gotta matter.

Definitely.

The lockdown and everything in 2020 really kind of made me take a step back and just start existing more in real life. And then I started just growing up and the record took a long time because of that.

Yeah, I mean, that totally makes sense. I feel like especially in these past few years, there has been so much change happening that no one really had control over. So I totally get that break and need to figure out who you are, not even just as an artist, but just as a person in general, especially at such a pivotal turning point. How would you say you've grown as an artist since Cat Heaven to where you're at now? And has that growth been reflected in this new album?

First thing is just taste wise. My taste has expanded a lot just in terms of what I'm listening to. There was a lot of electronic music I got into in 2018 that just shaped a whole section of who Roy Blair is going forward that you hear on Graffiti and you hear a little bit more on this. I think that's a big component. I think Cat Heaven, Chasing Moving Trains, and even Graffiti, are pretty similar, and I think if you're a fan of me, you can clock that. I think obviously there's a lot of production differences, but I think at the core, you could listen to Cat Heaven, Chasing Moving Trains, and go, "Okay, he's kind of doing similar things with structure here, or narrative. This feels like the climax of both records." I still love Cat Heaven, still go back to that record, and go, "Hey, I didn't really know what I was doing other than that I think I have good sensibilities for how an album should feel front to back." I figured it out, and that resonated with people, and I knew that, so I wanted to do a better version of that basically. So I think the only things that have really changed is just that I got a bigger budget to do this, and I'm working with maybe more people, but honestly, I've kind of kept some of the things very similar because I think the things that mean a lot to the fans also mean a lot to me.

I can definitely see from 2017 to now, and even your project in between, you have influences from both of those, and it's kind of the perfect culmination in Chasing Moving Trains where you get that synth, you get that techno. But then it also breaks down to where it's just you being raw and singing the lyrics that are still really impactful and meaningful, but it's kind of a whole big present all wrapped into one.

I really connect "Rain" on this album to "Grand Theft Auto." Originally it was supposed to be the same amount of tracks, but I cut it down because it's about the album being better, not always about narrative. But there are a lot of counterparts in terms of you could look at this song and it's this song, or you can look at that song and it's kind of similar to what he was doing with that song. But yeah, I think there's a lot of similarities. There's a lot of threads between both records, or all three records for that matter.

Yeah, definitely. I think I'm kind of deciding what my favorite track from this album is. I think as of right now it's Amberwood.

Oh, sick.

The first time listening to it, I literally got the craziest chills and had to text all my friends. I was like, "Oh my God, just wait until this song comes out. You guys are going to freak out." I feel like it's raw. The lyrics are really beautiful and also a bit haunting. At least what I took away from it was what you were going through and talking about those first feelings you had when first starting to make music and the aftermath of that. So can you get into what you were feeling when you were writing this song?

I think the idea started in Iceland. Originally it was basically up until when the drums drop was the original version, and then there was kind of a different hook, and I was like, "Nah, this hook, it's not very good. Let's just take it off. And I don't like where the song goes." In London in February of 2020, we got to the part where the drums drop and then we were trying to figure it out, but I didn't write that second verse until summer 2020. So if you think about it, it's kind of funny because those verses feel different in energy, or just maybe where my head's at in terms of where I'm at in my career, you know what I mean? When I first started that, just to be honest, I didn't have an idea. We were making music day in and day out in Iceland, and it kind of just came to me and I was like, "Oh, this is a cool concept." As I was sitting on that, my energy towards being in the music industry started to shift slightly, and just the tone of my career or certain things that were frustrating me a lot, being independent at the time started changing. Then you got the third verse where it almost feels like the tone of where it's getting to where I'm at, and the feeling of where I'm at shifting. You can kind of feel it shift in real time over the song.

You definitely see it. It's really interesting to hear your insight on it and where you were spatially location-wise and everything when you were writing that song and finishing all of that up. Do you have a personal favorite from the album?

Yeah, I think so. I think that it changes a lot for me, which is always a good sign where I'm like, "Oh, this one's actually clicking." I think it used to be "Panavision" for a while, and then now I think a lot this year it's been "Garden." For a long time it was also "Plum." And then I think the title track to me these days, I like listening to it a lot. I think that run from basically Chasing Moving Trains to the end of the album is pretty fucking great. Maybe I'll start with "Panavision" and then I'll just let the album run and I'll be like, alright, I'm just going to listen to the rest of the record, which is a good sign.

Sick, "Garden's" really, really great. So I feel like throughout this, you've been talking about different locations and whether in Iceland, London, or Japan not happening at that moment. So you were kind of traveling in all these different places. Are there any other places that you were at when you were making the album?

Just New York a lot. So I was in LA and it was feeling pretty stagnant. This was like 2018, and I was doing sessions and nothing was feeling great. I would go to New York for a show or something and I'd do a session with these guys I ended up working with. And then me and my friend Edgar, went to New York at the beginning of 2019 to work with these guys. It was icy and cold, and we were listening to Radiohead and a bunch of stuff, and it was just very different. It was a tone shift the minute we landed, and then it kind of reflected immediately in the music we were making. So I would argue it's kind of like New York, Iceland, London, and then maybe in sort of a fake way Japan as well. I think it's still narratively a part of the record, even if we didn't go, I think the record theoretically ends there or something, or maybe ends with me coming back home to LA or New York. I think that the concept at the end of the record is me stepping off the train and into a new place or into a new part of my life, if you will.

Sick. So would you say that, so now you're living in New York, what is it about the city that continues to inspire you?

All of my friends here are just amazing artists. Everyone I know here doesn't feel like they always have to be online or share everything they're doing all the time. It's not very performative. So it's just me and my friends and we make music at each other's places and we're just hanging out. And sometimes we go to stuff, but not really. I'm able to find more of the stuff that I resonate with hobby-wise. I go to the movies all the time here, I see old movies at Metrograph, I go buy used CDs, or go bike at the park near me. There's just a lot more of a sense that I can go outside and find something that's going to fulfill the non-music aspect of me that for some reason I just struggled to find in LA.

That's cool. I love to hear that. I totally understand where it's so easy to get caught up and wrapped up in a scene. You mentioned it earlier too, about DJing these past couple of years, so now that this new project is out, do you think that DJing is something that you'll continue to do?

Yeah, definitely. I'm specific in what I like. I'm probably not a good DJ definition wise just because I think it's valid that a part of DJing is making the crowd entertained, so I don't know if it's that I'm DJing for the wrong crowd. I don't really like a lot of new stuff, the stuff I play I feel like is not super loud either. It's kind of just quieter music. So I don't know. I love doing it. I don't get offered a lot of gigs, honestly, but I'm not really looking. I don't go out and go like, "Hey, book me, book me." This is kind of like a hobby for me. I'm so down to do it more, it's just a matter of when, or if it gets brought up to me really.

How similar or different your mixes are compared to the music that you make? And what kind of artists inspired Chasing Moving Trains?

One of the big influences that I would recommend anyone to check out is the Trainspotting soundtrack. I was scared by it. The music itself freaked me out when I was younger. But as I got older and rewatched the movie, I'm doing this electronic album studying and I'm like, "Oh, yeah, I love this song." Underworld is a nineties, early two thousands electronic group from the UK and they're amazing. It was really random because specifically "Garden" is pretty inspired by them. We were in London working at the studio that's like three hours outside of London, and they were randomly there at the studio. I was like, "What the fuck? This is crazy." And then I got to meet them, talked to them for a second, and that was really cool. I would say they're a big influence on this. I mean, other electronic acts, Ken Ishii. I like a lot of hard techno stuff. I mean, Daft Punk's first album Homework, I literally have studied the fuck out of that record. I'm obsessed with it, and I play remixes of that record every time. I always find a new remix that someone did in the nineties, and I'll play it every time I'm DJing. DJ Shadow was in a group for one album called Unkle, which is a trip hop kind of duo thing where they brought on a lot of artists like Thom Yorke from Radiohead to sing. That record Psyence Fiction really inspired me, honestly.

Sick. How important is it for you to continue creating all these compelling sounds and visuals as the album continues to roll out?

So I think it's going to be next year. I'm basically going to be working on the world of this all of next year. Even with Cat Heaven, I spent two years on that, and I basically worked on the world of that for the entire, maybe a year and a half after that record. I mean, in reality, all of 2018, I basically just promoted that record or did videos just kept working on it. And I think I'm going to do the same with this.

When I found out that you were putting out something new, I went on to Spotify and I got a notification that you had an album coming out. And literally, I think I scared my friends. I started freaking out, and they were like, "What?" And I was like, "You guys don't understand. Something crazy is happening right now." How has people's reaction been as you've been teasing the album and coming out with singles, and how has all of that been making you feel?

It's just like wow, because anyone who works with me will be the first one to tell you that the business side of this or the "We're trying to make a career," I am so not focused on that at all. I have an idea and I'm going to waste three years of my life on it. All I can do is make the best art I possibly can, or be like, "Hey, would 15-year-old me get inspired or be excited about this?" I've built my entire career off of that concept. If the money comes, or if the success comes based off of that, that's all. That doesn't even need to happen. As long as I can survive and try to execute ideas that I have, I think that's all that matters to me. So I guess with saying that, I think the thing that is the most beautiful about this whole thing is just I don't think this album has crazy buzz at all right now. I put out a song and a video and I'm like, "Oh, sick, a hundred thousand streams in the first week.” To me, that's good. Maybe the full record needs to come out for people to fully get it. I think the amazing thing is that I didn't really know if the fans from Cat Heaven would stay? Would they still check in? And to be honest with you, I think those are the main people. I even checked the backend of Spotify recently, and it was like, my fan base is 90%, 22, 23 years old. And I'm like, that's crazy.

Then that adds up!

Those kids from five years ago grew up, and those are the main, and almost only people listening to me, which is beautiful. I think that's amazing. That whole concept of some kids starting high school and now maybe are either graduating college or something like that where it's this huge life change. I do think this record will impact people in the ways that I was feeling when I started it, honestly. I really think it's going to hit in that way for people where they're going to be like, "Oh, Cat Heaven meant something to me at this time. I was going through this. I was becoming an adult," and then this record will be like, "Oh, I'm out of college. I had my first love maybe, and I lost that." I think the music's going to resonate in a big way with the people who stayed on board.

I feel like you touched on that more specifically in "Amberwood" where you are speaking about growing up. I'm excited for the whole thing to release and to see new people getting to experience your music.

Well, first off, I think this record has more for everyone, honestly, even than Cat Heaven, which is crazy. I think so many people are going to be like, this one's my favorite. Or this one's my favorite. Because it kind of goes over a lot of different sub genres or just tones through the record. I think that it's really a grower thing where people have to sit with the record for a second and the dust kind of has to clear a little bit.

Well, take it from me as somebody that was like, "oh my God, Cat Heaven's the best thing ever." And now also listening to this one, it's all that I've been talking about. I'm really excited for just the mass audience to be able to hear the album from beginning to end, because I really do think that it takes you on a journey and a deeper insight into your mindset. If they were fans of Cat Heaven, they're going to be fans of this one as well.

Yeah. Thank you.

Is there a message that you want your audience to take away from this album?

I think the main thing is just enjoy the moment and enjoy the smaller things in life. We're all in the big race or whatever to do something with our lives and make some sort of impact. But I think more now than ever, the moments spent with people you love or the things you care about matter so much because of how fast everything is. I think the other thing is don't give up hope. I think it's an optimistic record.

I feel like people will definitely take all of that, and you can hear it through your sound and the songs on this album. But, I guess I have one more question left. So I want to talk about plans for touring and performing, and if you have anything in the works.

I don't want to say it too much, but the first half of next year.

Sick so soon. And are you excited about it?

I mean, I've been dreaming about it. The last show I ever did was a fucking nightmare.

Really?

It was a festival show and nothing worked. The line on "Amberwood" where I say "I had dreams of playing Coachella" or whatever. I don't think Coachella's the end all be all for me, but obviously when I was a kid, I was like, "Oh, I want to play shows and everything." I actually had a dream of me playing Coachella, and it actually went terribly wrong. This was three years ago or something, and it was just like, oh, the mic doesn't work and you're trying to plug in your phone. I don't know if I'm crazy, but I feel like other artists have this dream where they're trying to perform, but the mic won't turn on.

It's like Grimes' set.

I literally had that where I had this festival gig at the end of 2019. It was my last show and nothing was working. We literally got the mic working in the last five minutes. I performed two songs, with no in-ears. I couldn't hear the track. I just performed, went to the crowd, sang it, and then left. And that was literally the last show I played. So I have that dangling over me, and I'm like, fuck that. I've always loved live shows for what I think I can do with it. I actually don't love going to see live music that much. I don't go to shows very often other than DJ stuff, because I just have to be a really big fan to be fully in it, or it has to be a really energetic show. Either going to go see ASAP Rocky where everyone's jumping— that's obviously really fun for me. Or I have to go see My Bloody Valentine, where I'm just kind of obsessed and mesmerized. I have so many ideas for what I think the live show could be. I've been thinking about it for five years, so it's going to be easy for me. I think as soon as this album's out, I'm going to start working on it.

I feel like everyone will be really, really excited. Especially people in New York. I feel like so many people will come out for that.

Music

You’ll Never Guess DJ_Dave’s Next Move

Angelina Hazzouri — Before we get into this new remix, how did you get started making music with code?

DJ_Dave — I got started when I was in college, actually. I was taking random classes, trying to figure out what I wanted to do after I had switched my major from fashion. I was doing a bit of basic web development coding, and I discovered that I really enjoyed it. So I ended up taking a class in live coding, and we learned Sonic Pi, which is a live coding environment that I've been using ever since. I knew right away that it was something I was really obsessed with.

I graduated into COVID, so I had a year to just hang around and figure it out, honestly. I had a job—I was fully going in another direction. I didn't fully accept this as my career fate until a year after that. And then I realized this is something I really love and something that other people seem to enjoy discovering with me. So I thought, let me just take a leap of faith and just do this going forward.

That's so cool. Did you play instruments before, or did you kind of just discover [making] music through coding?

I did, I grew up playing instruments. I would jump around—I would take lessons in one instrument for about a year and then would be like, “I want to play something else!”

I never really produced anything though—I just enjoyed music and then discovering live coding and was like, “Oh, this is a kind of production structure that I actually really like. Wow.” I feel like what's cool about this is it's obviously your art, but it's heavily centered around technology.

What is your relationship to technology and how has that played a part in everything?

My relationship to technology is honestly, like, so weird. [laughs]

Obviously, I love certain areas of technology, and I'm very much at this intersection of art and technology, but I just think that it can be such a daunting genre of things. New technologies are really intimidating. It's like a whole new entity to learn how to communicate with.

I think a lot of times, it can steer people in the wrong direction or make them excited about something. I've just always tried to take the functionality of certain technologies and tools at face value and be like, at its core, what can this do? And how does it fit into my life and my work? And I've just kind of gone from there. It's really hard for me to back a new technology, honestly. Really? Yeah. My relationship to technology is interesting. It literally feels like a relationship. [laughs] There are certain things that I like to compromise on and certain things that I win on. So it's, you know, figuring out where we fit together.

Yeah, that sounds like a relationship. It's interesting because so much of what you do is dependent on technology. For everyone else, I feel like there's this whole conversation about whether AI will take over our jobs—but you kind of embrace that.

Yeah. I mean, AI is [pauses]... there are a lot of really obvious dangers of it. Those are what I think of first when I think of AI. Like there are a lot of really bad use cases of AI that we're already seeing, but they’re at face value. It's a really useful tool when used in good ways—like when it's used for making art in a way that's not taking other people's. Using it for unique output. AI is also helpful when it’s used to better our practices in certain areas. For example, I'm collaborating with an AI artist for this “infinite remix” release, but that's really the only time I've dabbled in AI so far. So, it’s like, you know, I'm treading lightly.

I'm super interested to hear more about the infinite remix with Dadabots—I don't even know what to ask because I don't fully understand it. So what can you tell me about it?

That's like the most valid question ever. [laughs] I fully sat in a workshop with my two friends who made this and they explained everything about their process,and I’m still not totally sure how it works. But basically they are fine artists / musicians, and they’ve been developing their AI tools for years. They’re known for a live stream they’ve had running since 2018, which is possibly the longest running YouTube live stream ever and it’s constantly producing unique content.

Oh my God?

High level overview — their AI model is trained on what certain genres sound like, for example, the drum patterns or vocal melodies a genre would use. And so their live stream that’s been running for 6 years has been constantly spitting out a long, long version of a death metal song

Oh my God.

Yeah. I always thought they were super cool ever since we met on my university tour, and I knew I wanted to collaborate when we met. When it came time for Naive to come out, it seemed really right to collaborate with them, and I asked them, “What if you just use the same model that you have? What if you just give it the stems of my song “Naive” and we just start a live stream that remixes it for however long?”

That’s insane, I can’t wait to stream the remix. When “Naive" originally came out, you did the whole thing on Instagram making it look like your account got hacked, which was so sick.

Thank you.

I also feel like it's low-key a risk to make it look like your Instagram got hacked. What was the thinking behind that? Were you nervous at all that people were going to report your Instagram for being hacked?

Yes! Actually, I got my Instagram taken down for a little—it's so funny, dude—because yeah, I knew that there were risks associated. I was like, a lot of people are going to think this is real. I lost a few hundred followers, but I also gained a few hundred new ones. I just know that honestly, there's that element of shock value.

The whole concept was that I want people to genuinely question the origins of everything that I was about to put out for the next couple of weeks and question if it's safe, if it's me. I wanted to instill doubt in people about my motives or whose motives are behind all of it.

Never let them know your next move.

Never let them know my next move. I made sure I was really careful to drop hints as much as I could, because I knew it was going to be a puzzle—something that people could solve. It was actually so crazy because after I posted my first Instagram—the one that really got people—a couple of people in my Discord immediately solved the whole thing.

From one post? They know you too well.

I know, they immediately got it. They were like, “She's releasing a song called ‘Naive’ on August 29th.” It was crazy.

What do you think you'll do after this project with Dadabots? Do you think this will be a series?

After this phase, I'm going to be going into this phase of transparency and cybersecurity. I want to have cybersecurity, with a much more trustworthy vibe.

Because if my last release was all about being sketchy and mysterious and almost malicious, I want the next phase to be all about being transparent.Using technology only for good, having accessible products that people can interact with—that sort of thing.

There's obviously going to be music and then outside of that, there will be projects that have more of an honest identity, which I'm excited about.

That sounds so cool. It sounds like you're building a world, if that makes sense. I feel like what you do obviously transcends just music because it's not just music.

Yeah, it was with Josh [Kohno] and Sophia [Castillo] that we came up with this world-building idea. I've always been almost overwhelmed with the amount of things that I want to fit into my project because if I kept it to just music, I would literally be missing parts. I wouldn't be able to work with certain people that I want to, or I wouldn't be able to have this global perspective on things if I didn't expand it outside of music. So this just ended up being the perfect framework for me to include everyone that I wanted to.

This ended up being the solution, and it's been so perfect and fun.

Infinite Remix of ‘Naive’ by DJ_Dave and Sipper can be streamed here.

Music

Jacob Mühlrad: Where Classical Music Meets the Unexpected

November 15, 2024

Contemporary classical music often struggles to stay relevant, particularly in the U.S., where it's mostly confined to academic spaces. But Swedish composer Jacob Mühlrad is reshaping the genre and he sells out concert halls on his own in Stockholm.

Jacob Mühlrad’s versatility shines through his projects. In November, he premieres a symphony about the biosphere that will even travel to Tasmania. He’s also co-produced two tracks for rapper 070 Shake's new album and is set to release a joint single with her next year.

His work has been performed in prestigious venues like Carnegie Hall in New York and Suntory Hall in Tokyo, but his journey is anything but traditional. Jacob moves between two contrasting worlds: studio sessions with artists like 070 Shake and formal meetings with orchestras.

By Enzo Holdt
Photography by Mikael Jansson and Pierre Björk

Jacob’s drive stems from his family history. As the grandson of Holocaust survivors, he grew up with a deep awareness of life’s fragility. “I’ve always felt my life has to mean something,” he reflects.

His collaboration with 070 Shake highlights his ability to connect across genres. The two first met late at night in artist Alexander Wessely’s studio. Over Hennessy and music talk, they bonded instantly. Their creative process, whether at former ABBA artist Benny Andersson’s studio or in Stockholm, is marked by an unspoken understanding.

Songs like Sin and Blood On My Hands grew from this connection. “She started singing, and we just knew where the other was going,” says Mühlrad. Moments like Shake’s impromptu lyrics became defining features of their work together.

For Jacob Mühlrad, crossing boundaries isn’t just a creative choice—it’s a necessity. Balancing classical and contemporary, he proves it’s possible to bridge musical worlds without losing oneself.