Julia Fox: Mother, Lover, Angel, Devil, Home

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During the pandemic, Fox became a mother, giving birth to her son Valentino while continuing  to work. (She shot Stephen Soderberg’s No Sudden Move while six months pregnant.) She also  began writing and launched a podcast, Forbidden Fruits, with her friend Niki Takesh. Juggling  multiple projects comes naturally to Fox, who grew up in a working-class area of New York City. 

“My parents never spoke unless it was to fight about money,” she explains. “I just knew very young  and very early on that I needed to hustle.”

Fox is scheduled to shoot three movies this year. Her next role will be as the hard-partying celeb- rity hairstylist Carrie White in an adaptation of White’s best selling memoir, Upper Cut, a tale of  addiction and recovery full of glamorous anecdotes. White partied with Jim Morrison, got high  with Jimi Hendrix, and worked on set with Hollywood immortals like Elizabeth Taylor, Elvis Presley,  Goldie Hawn and Marlon Brando. It all sounds like a natural fit for Julia.

There is a lot on the horizon for Fox, yet she remains down to Earth. Over a Zoom call, Fox unpacks  from Art Basel Miami, putting things away in the bathroom of her East Village apartment. Fox can  transfix an audience even while cleaning the bathroom. I happily watch as she talks, opening and  closing the medicine cabinet, moving items around, hair whipping in and out of the screen as we  get off topic, talking about her bodega favorites—“a toasted bagel with cream cheese, jelly and  bacon,” plus a handful of candy. “And I go to Burger King often!” she adds. “I love the Iimpossible  Bburger and the Hershey pies!” 

I’m reminded of the multiple ways icons get interpreted, like how in Ancient Greece, there was  Aphrodite Urania, the Aprhodite of the Heavens and then there was Aphrodite Pandemos, the  Aphrodite of the people. Julia Fox is a celebrity that belongs to the people.

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RACHEL RABBIT WHITE — Your fame means  something to a lot of overlapping New York  underground communities. You grew up  here. You’ve been known as an artist for years,  a downtown icon, and you’ve been so open  about your past career as a dominatrix. So  when Uncut Gems came out, that was all over  the press, and in the New York City sex work  community that created a buzz, like she’s one  of us, and she’s really doing it.  

JULIA FOX — It’s always been in the back  of my mind… Just that I’ve been given these  opportunities when that just doesn’t happen  for a lot of sex workers. It’s that people don’t  take you seriously if you’re a creative and also  a sex worker… I wish I could go back in time  and tell myself ten years ago things are going  to turn around for you and you’ll be seen finally.  At the time, I didn’t have high hopes but I was  optimistic. I knew I didn’t want to be in the  sex industry forever but I really didn’t know  how I would get out, I didn’t have a plan. I’m  really grateful for how everything happened  organically.  

RRW — It was so exciting to have an actual  Hollywood It-girl who was open about having  been a sex worker. I do think attitudes are  slowly getting there but more slowly than they  should be. 

JF — Well, for instance, after a movie like  Uncut Gems, I probably should have gotten  some sort of brand deal, whether Chanel or  something like that. But you know, that didn’t  happen. And I’m sure that it’s because I don’t  have the cleanest image. And it’s like, well, I’m a  real fucking bitch and that’s what people want  nowadays. It’s like—and you get it—I honestly  feel like they’d be lucky to have someone like  me to endorse them, you know what I mean?  Like, they’re just not there yet I feel. But you  know, for sex workers, Cardi B is like, a great  example. Like, she’s really doing her thing.  That’s huge for, you know, a stripper to come  out and now be like fucking Cardi B. So, I feel  like, you know, music now has accepted it.  Hopefully film and television will become a  little more accepting. 

RRW — Completely. I’m looking it up now and  Cardi only got her first luxury brand deal last  

year—it was with Balenciaga… This is a couple  years after she brought their brand into the  zeitgeist, you know… “I like those Balenciagas/ the ones that look like socks.” Did you ever  feel pushback directly because of how open  you’ve been about your life? 

JF — I’m not going to name names or anything,  but people I’ve never even met, executive  people, studio people, had comments. There  were some things said about my figure,  about my butt potentially being too big to be  in a movie, which is ridiculous because we  see big boobs in movies. A big butt is super  mainstream now and it’s like, ‘Get with it!’ And  also I was born with a big butt. My mom has  a big butt. It’s an Italian gene that I have. You  know, what am I supposed to do, apologize  for it and hide it so that your reaction to me  is acceptable? I’m not responsible for your  reaction to me. Get your fucking head out of  the gutter. 

RRW — That’s crazy. I feel like audiences  completely celebrated your ass on the big  screen! 

JF — Yeah, exactly. It turns out that Josh Safdie  was 100% right in casting me because there  were many things that people loved and  enjoyed about the performance and about me  and the character. My manager always tells  me your people will find you. And it’s so true.  When I was younger I was a little more frantic,  a little bit more like, ‘Oh, what am I going to  do?’ My parents don’t have money, I don’t have  an inheritance. I was always hustling, I had to  support myself. I used to freak out and come  up with ways to make money. It’ll be crypto,  it’ll be marijuana, it’ll be this or whatever, but  now I’m just so much more relaxed because I  know that even if I don’t work for like a month,  something will come. And it always does. So, I  definitely don’t stress about that anymore. 

RRW — That was one thing I wanted to talk  about, how when you do sex work in New York  City you become keenly aware of how much  money other people have and of the disparity  of wealth.  

JF — I remember when I was working, I had  never had a thousand dollars before, I had 

never held a thousand dollars before. And I  remember that feeling. I remember getting  tipped a thousand dollars and seeing  that money in my checking account. I just  remember being, like, ‘No, that check was fake,  it bounced. He canceled it. There’s no way.’ And  I remember when I saw it. And now a thousand  dollars isn’t as much money to me, but at the  time I felt like, wow, you know? I was living on  my own and I just got so thrown, I got exposed  to things that I never had growing up, for sure,  like I was literally 18 years old checking the  stock market because that would in turn affect  my clients, my money. 

RRW — I’m curious, with your success, what is  your relationship like to money now? 

JF — Oh, I’m still super cheap. Everyone knows  that about me. But if it’s like your money, oh,  then, we are going, yeah, then I can spend  like a mother, like actually scary, like, $60,000  in an hour scary. But now that it’s my money,  that’s a whole different story. I’m also really  into saving and smart financial decisions  and I think that does come from growing up  without money and always being afraid that  it’s going to be taken away at any moment. I  live in the East Village and that’s my lifestyle.  It’s not glamorous at all. I was actually thinking  the other day, like no matter who the woman is,  it could be Mariah Carey, it could be Beyonce,  there is so much upkeep as women. There’s  nothing glamorous about it! Especially if you’re  a mother. But from the jump we have to wax,  there is just so much we have to do, or are  conditioned to do, and it’s like we just do it on  autopilot. 

RRW — Yeah and then when you don’t  come from money, the upkeep can become  something you do because you realize that  your looks are an asset, not necessarily  because you want to! 

JF — I realized it in middle school. Prior to that I  was a tomboy. I was kind of a lesbian. I grew up  with my dad and my brother and my next door  neighbor who was a boy. I wasn’t into being  girly. But then when I realized, ‘Oh guys like me  when I’m more feminine presenting, they’re  nicer to me, and I can get things when I am this  other way…’ The switch was overnight. I started  

wearing heels the same week. I was fully going  to milk it to the max, you know? 

RRW — IAnd there’s layers to it, too. I remember  going back on the train the first night I worked  at a strip club and I was like…. I’ve been doing  this job my whole life, pleasing men. I’ve  cultivated this skill, I’m good at it, and now I’m  finally getting paid for it. I was so shook that  I didn’t notice I’d missed my stop like three  stations ago. 

JF — For me with dominatrixing, it was more  of like, I have been in these kinds of abusive  relationships all my life, now I can be paid for  it. Because the dominatrixing was, it’s much  less about sex and more about mind-fucking  and being a sadist or being a masochist or  whatever. And so it was a little more emotional  I would say. I just felt like I released so much  aggression on these guys. And obviously there  were submissive moments in there as well.  At the end of the day it is a service. You’re a  dominatrix. You are providing a service. 

RRW — Cat Marnell said that I should ask you  about the South. You ran away to The South  when your New York life got too crazy, in 2015.  You went to Louisiana, where you were living  with the guys from the band Salem for some  of the time, going around, documenting crazy  stuff for an art book. 

JF — That’s so funny. I went to visit friends  and basically just never left. I went down there  just because I wanted to not be reminded of  anything. Like, I just really wanted everything  brand new and, you know, prior to that I’d been  living such a, it was a lavish life, for sure, but it  was fucked up and I was in some unhealthy  relationships. I just wanted to get away where  I didn’t know anyone and nobody know me.  And I ended up there. Through discovering  the South, I also kind of discovered the rest  of the United States. And that was really cool,  because prior to that I was just such a city  kid. I was literally like the meme of the guy in  the ocean wearing Tims, like scrolling on his  phone. I did make friends. They were telling  me about Katrina. A lot of them still didn’t  have running water or electricity. Their shit is still really fucked up. And it’s really, really sad  just how it’s overlooked. It’s fucking crazy, the amount of poverty. And my friends from  Louisiana, they still hit me up and they’ll be  like, ‘Yo, this is crazy. I can’t believe you’re in the  fucking movies.’ And I’m like, ‘I know, this is wild.’  We were literally chilling in a trap house with  no electricity or running water all day, all night.  And fucking now I’m in a fucking movie. Like,  that’s crazy. But I don’t know... I kind of always  knew something like that would happen one  day. I just always had an inkling. You know  how you just know? That’s why I feel like I’m  exactly where I need to be, where I was meant  to be. Like, God doesn’t give you anything you  can’t handle or that isn’t made for you, tailored  specifically for you. And this just happens to be  my experience.

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RRW — I call that feeling ‘walking in god’s path.’  Like, you know when you’re on it. 

JF — Exactly. Even if you do make a wrong  decision, it’s going to lead you exactly where  you need to be. You’re always going to be  brought right back onto the path. 

RRW — What was that blowup fame moment  like? 

JF — Surreal but really tiring. I was doing a  press tour. You know, obviously it was just  non-stop attention and people talking to me,  reaching out. Then my best friend died and  then everything kind of took a turn. She shot  Uncut Gems with me, she was with me on set  every single day for filming. She was there  for everything. This was supposed to be our  moment. I was in LA and on tour and busy and I  wasn’t there for her the way that I wanted to be.  I did speak to her, like, a couple hours before  she died and we had a nice conversation. 

RRW — Do you still feel a connection? Like,  how when someone you are really close to  dies, it’s like they never go away. 

JF — Well, actually, when I got pregnant, I was  already in the middle of the divorce with my  husband and then I ended up pregnant. It was  like, Fuck! And I calculated the due date, just  out of curiosity. I hadn’t really decided what  I was going to do yet, it was just really early  stages. And the due date was my best friend’s 

birthday. I just knew that this was a gift and I  was going to rise to the occasion. When I look  at my son, I see her. She’s in the frame. She’s  there, for sure.

RRW — Do you want to raise him in New York?

JF — I feel like, growing up here, I don’t know,  I have such a love-hate relationship with New  York. I’ve been trying to move to California for a  really long time. I feel like that’s kind of like the  path that all my friends have taken. It’s like you  either die or fall off the fucking face of the earth,  nobody sees you again, or you’re on drugs or  something, or you move to California. I feel like  that’s the progression of a New Yorker’s life.

RRW — What will you be working on this year?  What will you be manifesting?

JF — I have three movies that I’m supposed  to be filming next year. One of them, just  announced today, is Carrie White’s story.  She’s an iconic celebrity hairstylist. She had  an amazing career, lost everything, got into  drugs, got it all back. I read her memoir, Upper  Cut, it’s such an inspirational and triumphant  story. I’m always rooting for the underdog. And  there are a few other things that haven’t been  announced yet, so I don’t know if I’m supposed  to share anything about it yet… But there’s a lot.  She’s busy. She’s booked and busy, for sure.  Yeah. I wish I could say this one thing, but I  definitely can’t. But it’s OK. Everything is OK.

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