How did it feel to be back in the city for a while? Do you notice any shifts in your connection to the city since moving to London?
When I first moved to London and was traveling back and forth, I would gradually feel less and less connected. 2024 is an ending and a beginning. This time last year, I stopped holding on to what New York was for me those years ago. I allowed myself to feel like a new person just like all the other new people that come to the city and discover new sounds, new scenes, and new people.
Before, when I was living in New York, I had moved out but now when I come back I stay with my family, and we live in East Flatbush, Brooklyn which is like the hood. So it's a grounding experience to come back to my home and see that there's still this part of New York that remains unchanged. In regards to gentrification, there are subtle changes. A lot of businesses are closing down and new businesses are trying to open up but I've learned to accept that this is New York. New York is for everyone. I’m learning to accept the waves and eras of the city and experience it in the present.
Is your sound itself influenced by your upbringing in New York?
Yes, for sure. New York is like the second Caribbean for migrants and East Flatbush specifically is a very Caribbean-dominated area. Having immigrant parents, my upbringing was a mix of worlds. Growing up, everyone around me was a Caribbean kid as well. So we've been drinking and turning up and throwing parties since we were pre-teens. I feel like that's a similar experince New York kids have.
Being completely immersed in the Caribbean music of soca, dancehall, and calypso has definitely had a prominent impact on me. So has New York music, especially hip hop and rap. My music speaks to those two worlds. I'm specifically thinking of my song One Time which was partially inspired by the Litefeet movement which is such a New York thing. I was inspired by those drums, that sort of West Coast bounce, and seeing how dance and music speak to each other regionally. It's been a melting pot of a lot of influences and I appreciate that.
Do you think that native New Yorkers hold the same space in the city that we did when we were younger? Is it the same or have you had to shift the native New Yorker complex a bit as you get older?
There's so much to consider. We graduated in 2020 and obviously that was a great time for the city. Everybody left that wasn't from New York. The rent was so low, I was able to move out and just enjoy life. But then after high school, you have an influx of students and a departure of New Yorkers as well for college and stuff like that. I feel like the problem is that people are cosplaying as New Yorkers.
New York is the only place that people move to and then claim as their origin city. That's why I feel like there is this need to create a distinction between being born and raised here because there is such an extreme difference. Y'all flew here we grew here. I wish people were more honest about their whereabouts then we wouldn't need to have this complex.
In my experience at least, New York is very segregated. It's unfair when people can move to the city, come get all the job opportunities, get all the invites, and get all this accessibility into the city. Whereas the people that have been here have to climb so many more stairs to get the same sort of accessibility. It's a different entry point. I think that makes it harder for native New Yorkers to have the same sense of presence as we get older. We have been hustling growing up in this chaotic-ass place our whole life. It's definitely interesting to navigate.
Your work is very multi disciplinary. You're not just one thing so how do you balance all of these different areas of your creativity? Are you leaning more towards one area right now?
It is definitely seasonal. In the winter, I'm locked in my incubation just to learn, research, study, create, and do that introspective work. Ultimately what has led to me being multidisciplinary is constantly learning new things and expanding my skill sets and remaining curious. My mind is split between so many different places. I'll be doing one thing but then I'll have a question about it and that leads me down a whole other path. I become obsessive with things.
Are you curious about anything interesting right now?
I am about to start teaching production and DJ lessons now. There's a lot of people who are interested in how my mind works and what my process is and being someone that is self taught in so many ways, I have a passion for education. So I was like, ‘Okay, why not do lessons?’ We're going to make a school now. I'm also working on an app and a documentary. At this point, my artistry is not just making songs but an archival and radical approach to what it means to be a creative.
You do a good job of not pigeonholing yourself.
You can never, I think that’s the New York effect. You are exposed to everything a little bit.
Your most recent album DOWN 2 EARTH has a really unique sound. Did you have any specific inspirations on this album?
This album was definitely an upgrade in terms of my technical capacities and trying different genres. Oftentimes, especially with Black female artists it’s so focused on R&B and rap. Don't get me wrong, I love that stuff, but let's push it. Let's make it a little fusion. I was pulling influences from Solange, Skillibeng, and Vybz Kartel.
How is it different from Poster Girl?
Poster Girl was my first project but I was already an image. I had already been in Vogue and done campaigns so it was putting a sound to that image. Poster Girl was this statement of ‘this is what I represent in the fashion and music landscape.’
Whereas I feel like DOWN 2 EARTH was more introspective. Like literally, let's get down to Earth and tap into Talia Goddess. I was trying to get deeper into my sound and discover what it is I want to represent. That's R&B, that’s indie alternative, that's dancehall, a bit of club. I was trying to spoon-feed people a little bit more and more and keep pushing the envelope of what to expect.
Is there anything coming up that you're really excited about?
I'm so excited to release new music. I've been refining this Caribbean influenced R&B retro sound and getting into more up-tempo dance music while still feeling soulful. I'm really excited about the new music and making a statement that I am alternative and I am queer and being at odds with everything, that I'm constantly pushing the envelope.
I feel like the alternative space right now is so alien-coded. It’s very futuristic and I want to bring a diasporic edge to that and bridge those two worlds together because we've always been futuristic and we've always been alternative.
Jack— I know you mostly from Instagram, all those little stories…
Cancel— Are we recording? Is this on?
I'm recording now. Yeah.
Alright, let's do it.
So I know of you from instagram where you would post these little snippets from your life. I had no idea you made music until you dropped “Gun” . I feel like your writing style is like understating the extraordinary and every sentence is just the truth, the truth, the truth…
The truth is really all I’ve got but I think it’s helpful squeezing it into tiny posts.
True, I feel like your songs kind of play well on a loop.
Yeah I wouldn’t know…
And you're from NYC right?
Yeah from the Upper East Side and lived all over until I moved to LA in 2019.
Do you ever plan on coming back?
I’m literally sitting with a bunch of boxes of my shit all packed up as we speak, moving back to NYC in about 10 minutes.
You’re gonna get a van and drive over?
That would be romantic but i’m just zapping it there with some movers.
Why are you leaving LA?
I just have a hard time sitting still, feeling static and it’s just been insane here and I knew I needed to go and I miss playing live music and I feel like live music lives in New York City. I need to have a band and make my apartment my studio.
On this album you play every instrument.
Yeah it’s just me, I made in about a week it was pretty weird and fast and intense
The Dollhouse, inspired by Pariah the doll?
Haha yeah, no. The Dollhouse was the nickname of the house I lived in LA. Where I spent a lot of time with a really special girl. The album kind of centers around her and the past year
That’s funny I just finished my poetry book this year and I was re-reading it and realized that like every poem is about my Ex.
I mean we all need our muses, and she and I muse each still probably always will. She’s a great artist.
Yeah I feel like all relationships with artists work like that. And are often harder because of it.
I don’t think it’s harder, I just think there’s more meat on the bones and the stakes mean more and at the end of the day there’s a whole body of work around you both that you can always visit and touch, you know.
I Think about that song, true love leaves no traces.
Yeah, Leonard is usually right, but I don’t know about that line...
I was gonna say, your music does kind of remind me of Leonard Cohen. And he's pretty female foucused.
I mean, what else is there to write about?
Literally.
That was the whole album for me, you know, it was just her. You think you're the good guy, and then you wake up one day and realize you're not the good guy. You realize there's no such thing as the good guy or bad girl, and it’s all fine. There’s no wrong, there’s no right—you're both just doing your best and kind of making a mess, but also sucking it up and enjoying the intensity of it. It’s all kind of just sexy and beautiful to me; it’s not that serious even when it is.
Well, it's funny, because I feel like a lot of dating advice is about power. But when I'm in love, I am powerless.
It’s a fucking surrender for sure. That’s kind of relaxing for me; it’s just good in that way.
What's the origin story for the name Cancel?
The Cancel thing was an accident. The account started as a shitposting account. I was trying to make the anti-cellectual account because it was 2021 and everybody was making these accounts. I thought it was funny to say "fuck cellectuals," so why not just "cancelcellectuals"? I was just making shitty memes, and then somehow it evolved into an entire persona, which became my real life...
And you're unsigned, right?
Yeah, I'm doing everything by myself right now...
I feel like I didn’t know what you looked like for five years, until you posted a picture of your face covered in worms or something. And I was like, who the fuck is this guy?
I don’t know where the worms came from—they weren’t real, it was AI. But I don’t know, I started doing it and then I stopped. I don’t know what to say about the worms...
And you toured in Europe for a while too, years ago, right?
I had a project called Gambles, which I started in like 2013 or '14. It also kind of happened by accident—it somehow took off, and it kept me traveling for a long time around Europe. It’s still online and out there, and some freaks still listen to it...
And then you basically just stopped making music?
Yeah, it was a while. Maybe like ten years of quiet? I just stopped doing it; things shut off. I think I was just burnt out. And then I basically made Gun in 15 minutes last year. I had just started dating an amazing girl who is also a songwriter, and I think she kind of pulled it out of me.
Yeah, I really like that. That song really gives like male bedroom pop.
Not sure if that’s an insult, but thanks. I don’t know—it’s weird, I didn’t plan any of this. The way the account has evolved and the writing and my personal life, it’s all just a big fun mess that’s been posted online.
And people can scroll down through your account and piece together a narrative of your life. And you’re now the cover model for John Doe’s book.
John Doe is a close friend. But yeah, people scroll, they read, they paint a picture in their head, and they listen to the songs. I have no idea, really—I’m just posting.
Shout out John Doe.
He’s a good one. He introduced me to Delicious Tacos, and it’s this stupid kind of cliché layer of boys sitting around talking about their writing projects.
And exchange war stories?
Pretty much.
He’s completely anon, right?
Yeah. My thing was anonymous for a while too because it was the easiest way to write as myself without feeling fear or anything. And then I realized at some point that I was kind of hiding from myself. And I was like, well, I gotta own this, right? Especially with music. It just felt like the right thing to do.
So you’re moving to NYC? A lot of people critique the literary scene in New York, but it is very much alive—troubled, but there’s a beating heart.
The NYC vs. LA thing is pretty tired, but Peter Vack took me to Confessions reading, and I really liked it. And I generally hate reading.
People in New York really need each other.
Yeah, I think that’s what it is. Maybe it’s a proximity thing—you know, bodies on bodies. Everyone is just mashed up together differently compared to LA.
I feel like a lot of people get successful in New York, and then they move to LA and fall off immediately, like it makes them stupid or...?
LA is a beautiful fantasy, and for a while, I needed that. Not saying my relationships were, but it’s more like you’re in this beautiful bubble, and it’s so easy to float. I miss my city, I miss my family—I wanna be cold again; I don’t even remember what that’s like.
It’ll be good to have you back in the city.
I feel like it’s a healthy place for Cancel to play around. I think it’s like it’s where I’m supposed to be. It just feels right. I can always fly my muse across the country.
Julia Silverberg— What caused you to reunite after more than a decade-long hiatus?
Rat Section— Out of necessity, we arranged to meet in a New York Jazz Lounge a few years back to talk business. We actually bumped into each other by chance in Bucharest and kept in contact from there.
Why did you choose Rat Section as a name for the duo?
RS— It’s funny, it actually came from lengthy discussions about our dream house; we would have a sauna, heavy bag, dishwasher and a whole section dedicated for rats. Maybe another one for raccoons too.
Another dream-like story, I heard you two met at a karaoke bar in Warsaw during the 80s?
RS— Yes.
Tell me the backstory about those first years working together. And the decision to split up?
RS— It was a wild time, a different era. We are more controlled and precise with how we move about nowadays. Back then it was loose. We’re not saying we would do any performance, but at the same time we wouldn’t turn much down either. It took a toll, and maybe became a bit too much for us. Johnny disappeared and no one heard from them until the Bucharest chance meeting.
Is there any way for fans to access the original albums from that period?
RS— Unfortunately our whole back catalogue, archived by a dedicated portion of our fanbase, Club Rodentia, was burned in a boat fire in Venice some time ago. If anyone has access to it we’d appreciate it if they let us know!
What are the differences between that project and what you’re making now?
RS— Nothing has changed, we’re still on the same path.
Your sound has been experimental from the start. How would you describe it?
RS— We don’t feel good about genres although we are happy to join one if there is a good compilation CD that wants to include us.
If you ever do, let me know, I’d like a copy. What influences do you hope fans pick up on when they hear your music?
RS— Timbaland, Tricky, M.I.A, O Yuki Conjugate, and Muslimgauze, because we listen to them a lot. Films, choreographic ideas, or specific places in time also help to inform what we write.
I know you often play with other groups, I recently saw you play in London with New York. Is there a group you would love to perform with?
RS— Outkast, Gangsta Boo, Tupac, The Bee Gees, 50 Cent.
You tailor each performance to the venue you are playing. How do you begin in that process?
RS— We like to think about where we will be positioned and what set design to use depending on what we can make of the space from pictures and technical capacity.
Do you have a favourite show you’ve played?
RS— Mostly everyone that has invited us to perform has really looked after us; we have felt very welcome and made some nice friends along the way which we are grateful for. For me (Soopy) Museion in Bolzano was a lot of fun. (Slay John) Sparring at Loki was great - the line up was a family affair and people danced a lot.
It was so much fun to be a part of the audience at Loki, I hope you come back to London. Is there anything else for listeners to look forward to in the upcoming year?
RS— We hope to be able to travel and scale up the performances and set design. A new single is also coming out at the beginning of the year, with a music video.
