On SS24 w/ Anna Bolina
Lindsey Okubo– How are you feeling after the show?
Anna Bolina– I’m kind of feeling the come down effect that happens once you finish a creative project where it's like you're so focused and have such a sense of purpose in the months leading up to it but afterward, it’s like what do I do now? Even though I should probably rest, sometimes just jumping into new projects just makes me feel better.
Yeah totally because on the flip side of that, I feel like when you take too much time off, it’s hard to come out of it. It can feel quite existential.
I feel like I don’t have a clear path or goal of what I’m working on, it really stresses me out.
I feel that and kind of on that note, the Anna Bolina girl does have such a clear visual identity. I know you made an homage to that of sorts at the opening of the show with the girls in the tube dresses walking out and essentially standing guard around the runway. Then on another note, it’s interesting to think about it from a beauty perspective with hair and make-up and your longtime collaborators, hair stylist, Sonny Molina and MUA, Nat Carlson.
This season the collection felt very sculptural, you really pushed the look and that kind of represents the ways in which the Anna Bolina girl is growing up and she’s frustrated. Can you expand on that a bit? I feel like it’s a common motif across brands and wondering if that’s just because we’re at this transitional period in our lives or what.
When someone asks me what the Anna Bolina girl is like, I tend to think about what I’m experiencing in the world. I’m growing up and now I’m at this level of doing this business where it's no longer just fun and games with friends, it's become high stakes. There's a lot of frustration in me about the fashion industry in general and in the world in general. You open TikTok and you’re berated with bad news all the time. It's becoming harder and harder for me to enjoy the things that I used to enjoy like getting dressed up, doing my hair and makeup, putting on my nails and going out. That's something that I really miss but now I have to get up everyday and be at my studio at nine o’clock and life feels a lot harder. It feels like there's a lot of attention on things that we should not be focusing on right now.
What are some of those things?
I think people are attacking each other within our own communities instead of looking at the big picture of things. I also feel like life has become really sterile because everyone is concerned with the wrong things and going after the wrong people who are creating these larger issues in the world that are more corporate or tethered to capitalism, especially in the fashion industry. There’s a lot of frustration that is tethered to the constant push and pull of how to make money and still fulfill the creative energy inside. This is something we were trying to highlight with the concept of the girls coming out in the tube dresses because ultimately yes, there are all these clothes on the runway but to me, they’re more like art pieces transformed into wearable things. This business is dependent on these printed dresses and that’s what makes all this possible. Figuring out the next steps is something that I need to do because I have to figure out how to make money because it's ultimately a business.
Yeah and the push and pull moment is interesting because it does come to a head. You realize that maybe there’s less of a choice than you thought there was and it's interesting that you used the word sterile because it is this fine balance of maintaining purity, dressing up, clothing, it’s supposed to be fun but even the ways in which going out has become this battle of self esteem, it’s seeped into everything.
There’s a lot of negativity, we are always going to the same places and there's a lot of repetition creating boredom and beyond that people are frustrated with the world and its seeping out everywhere. All of that has made me feel like not wanting to participate in things that I used to a lot and it definitely kind of sucks.
Yeah and even the frustration linked to the notions of going to the same places, I feel like that’s about an expectation for “fetch” to happen instead of just the simple joys of going out and knowing your friends will be there. In thinking about how that translates then into the clothes, the fact that the things that came down the runway were art pieces versus you going into a more commercial direction seemingly is you filling the void perhaps and having the fun that you missed having from the changes that ensued.
Yeah and it was so fun and I don't work from home anymore and you met Ashley, my assistant designer, and just having her here with me really in the studio opened up the time to really dive into the detail work that has always been missing. Previously, we were using wire to shape things instead of boning and we weren’t able to do things like second fittings to make sure everything was tailored to really fit and of course, everything got crazy and some things didn't exactly go on exactly how we wanted it to but that's how it seems to always go. I always think we have enough help and then we somehow never do.
Yeah and I mean not to be totally cheesy but somehow the details seem to translate into having those moments of small joy that we’re unable to find nowadays.
Totally and it just feels a little bit darker in the New York scene. I don't know if it's just my own perspective or what's happening but for me, I've just had to really focus on work more so and looking at it from an outside perspective, it’s like wait, am I really interested in going out? I love to dance. I used to go to a big concert every weekend but a lot of times now these parties are more about people wanting to network, meet people and have all these little conversations that are really like not anything. I ask myself if this is what we all want to be doing? I'm not sure.
Yeah and it's weird because people want to go to these things but while they're there, they're completely self-censoring themselves, it feels calculated. You’ve described your clothes as nighttime wear and really you’d only be able to wear these things if you’re confident. With clothing there is this aspect of self-awareness that comes along with it.
Totally and in what I was saying before, maybe it’s because I've lived in New York for a while and I'm getting older and seeing all these new kids that are really excited, I’m like my energy is so different from that now. Because that part of my life has kind of slowed down, I'm getting what I used to get by dressing myself up and going out, by making clothes and putting all of the energy into that. Now I’m making videos and doing shows in order to fulfill that need for what I was experiencing that was almost like a performance. I’m realizing I’m able to make those experiences in my life happen but with and through the brand.
Yeah and when you think of the word “evolution” or what it means to grow, this notion of finding new streams of fulfillment feels like your definition of that now. When we think about creativity too, we also need to find ways to make our practices sustainable because you’re not going to feel the same way about something forever. Then linking things to the beauty perspective we’re integrating, it’s also about all the ways in which your look changes too and even the ways in which “beauty” itself has evolved. We’re now looking at ourselves and other people more than ever but how many of us actually feel good. The Anna Bolina girl has an undeniable sense of confidence and when you’re working with Sonny and Nat for the show, what are your starting points for the direction of things?
We have a great relationship where we've worked together for so long that they really know my taste and I really trust them. Usually I give them a couple ideas and then they come back to me with multiple options and concepts of how to actually execute them along with their own original ideas and we build off of that. This time I told Nat that I wanted it to focus on the eyes and sort of have this extremely diffused smoky eye, almost like a big smudge and she rolled with that completely and came up with the concepts herself. With Sonny, I wanted to add asymmetry within the hair to match the asymmetrical lengths in the pieces along with adding color to the collection. Sonny came up with these amazing roots for the hair and when we did the hair test, I was blown away. I was like, “Oh my god, can you do this to me everyday?” They can take an unarticulated idea that’s just a general vibe in a mind and not only articulate it through hair but expand on it in ways that I would never have thought of.
Yeah and to have these kinds of relationships, I’m like that’s ultimately what success is because you’ve created a world that other people can live in and understand.
Yeah and that's why I really love working with the same team and I’m really loyal to them because we all feel like we really get each other.
Conversely in what we were talking about before, people are going out to try to meet people in hopes of making these connections so why would you shake that up?