Goin' Up with Westside Gunn

Their emergence really began in 2017. Due to Gunn’s charismatic presence and uncanny ability to be in the right room with the right people, Griselda signed a deal with Eminem's Shady Records (a subsidiary of Interscope), and the group became the first rappers out of Buffalo to sign with a major label. Thereafter, the group was on the fast track to recognition. Gunn began extending his reach, amassing a long list of impressive collaborators from both the old and new school of hip hop (Busta Rhymes, DJ Premier, Anderson .Paak, The Alchemist), and started performing at bigger and bigger venues, such as Firefly, Govenor’s Ball, and Coachella.

His savvy business skills did a lot to accelerate Griselda and his rise, but their sound helped, too. The quick-cut samples and brazen raps, the heavy boom-bap beats, the rough-around-the-edges vocal inflections—it’s a quintessential hip hop sound that Griselda produces, a definite throwback to the old school. At first, one may think that it's the sound of a bygone era, but Gunn believes his music satisfies a long-standing itch in the hip hop community. And it happens that his belief is co-signed by Kanye, Jay Z, Travis Scott, Nas—and many other titans in the genre.

Considering their sound and how the group operates—as an entity whose artists are free to make their own solo albums—it would be easy to call them the second coming of Wu Tang and Gunn a Ghostface 2.0. But they’re more than just a reiteration. Gunn is going beyond just bringing back the old school; he’s synthesizing it with the new—and that’s really the appeal.

His most recent album, Pray for Paris, as well as being the culmination of his hustle in the industry, is an emblem of all of Gunn’s passions outside of it. He may have amassed his audience through rap, but his interests spread out beyond rhythm and flow; fashion, art, and Gunn’s knack for executive producing are all represented on this LP. It’s certainly his most ambitious project to date.

Following its release, office caught up with the FlyGod in the midst of putting together his next album. From his second home in Atlanta, Gunn talked about how he got his entrepreneurial start, the pressure he feels in the rap game, and why we just might hear him spit over an EDM beat.

Griselda provided the soundtrack to Virgil Abloh's Off-White 2020 premier at Paris Fashion Week, Virgil also did the cover art for your most recent album, Pray for Paris. Though, you guys have been linked since Pyrex. Can you speak a bit about your relationship?

I've been a fan of Virgil for the last seven years. It's been a mutual respect. When Virgil dropped Pyrex, it was a high fashion street brand. People was in the hood, but they were in a three-hundred dollar hoodie. It was high level fashion but was still in the streets. I respected it. And it was like, if Virgil could do it, then I could do it. Because at the same time, I was designing on the street level. He just took it to a whole different level. I was wearing it in the streets, and being from Buffalo, I was probably the only person in Buffalo with it at the time. That was also the time I started rapping as well. I used to rap a long time ago but I had to stop for eight years. So that was the time I actually started my first project. It was just like we grew together—my career in music and his career in fashion. I'm heavy into fashion, you know, fashion-rap. I'm probably the biggest when it comes to fashion-rap. I always named dropped Off-White™, he caught wind of it, started re-tweeting everything, and we just became cool. When I dropped "DR BIRDS" from the Griselda album [WWCD] and I said, "Tell Virgil, write ‘brick’ on my brick," that just spread it like crazy. When we shot the video, the legendary Hype Williams really wrote "Brick” on a brick. After that, he was like, "Hey man, you need to come to Paris. Let's link up, let's start doing what we need to do." And it's been on ever since.

What about Virgil makes you want to work with him?

I just love his drive. Virgil just remind me of myself. Taking it from Pyrex to the head of Louis Vuitton is amazing. Watching him grow from that to where he is now is unbelievable. You know, it's the same way for me. Like I said, we started at the same time, now look at me. He's the head of Louis Vuitton, but he's designing my cover. Going from where I was at to now is amazing. I'm with Jay Z; I'm about to be creating and designing with Kanye. Those are things you dream of. We just both worked hard and it's a mutual respect. When I was doing my first photoshoot, it was wearing Pyrex. It's a connection.

You mentioned that you were designing back in middle school. What were some of the first pieces you designed?

It's crazy, we used to get in trouble in school. My first crew was called PIMP. I always been a leader, I always been a hustler, man. I was doing things way ahead of my time. I used to sell jerseys in sixth grade. You look at kids now in sixth grade, and they probably playing a video game somewhere online. I was the jersey plug. It was always about fashion. And I had a crew. This was when Wu-Tang was big, so we'd have the "W" carved in our heads [laughs], know what I'm saying? And write "pimp" on the other side. It was just culture, bro. I had my friend Victor draw the logo, and even at that age I was calling and screen printing at places, finding out the minimums, and how much per color—all of that. We did the "Pimp Worldwide." It was a world with "pimp" across it. I started selling to family members, then it grew to forerunners. It was crazy.

I literally had a teacher tell me, "I wasn't gonna be shit." You know how you hear stories like that which you think are fake? Like, "Man, no teacher ain't ever gonna tell you nothing like that." This was true. A teacher slammed me up against a locker because I was the leader. It was like, "This guy's bad. He's the one making all the other kids in the school say 'pimp' and put 'pimp' in they head and wear these shirts." It was like that. Then once I got to high school (that's when the Wally Clarks was big), we just elevated, seeing who had the best Wallys, dying them ourselves. I started getting jean suits, and we started going crazy on the jean suits. I was doing letterman jackets, too. You know you had to play for a sports team to get a letterman jacket; I was in high school and was like, "You know, I don't play for no team. I'm gonna make my own letterman jacket." I was just always creating. This is what I want to be. This is what I want to do.

You have some pretty identifiable chains. You mind speaking about them and what they mean to you?

Yeah, my FlyGod piece—anyone who knows Westside Gunn knows the FlyGod; that's who I am—so that piece right there, that means a lot to me. It's like if somebody wore a Jesus piece. To people who think I'm egotistical, wearing myself—cuz all my chains are of myself [laughs]—I just love what I represent to the game and to the culture. I bring that second coming of real hip hop. FlyGod has the resemblance of a Jesus piece, but the meaning of it is me being doubted but working hard to bring back a sound that was missing from the game for a long time. When I first started, everybody was listening to Southern music, then Chicago drill music started getting big. Nobody wasn't checking for my sound. So that gave me more drive. Like, "I'm gonna show y'all better than I'm gonna tell y'all." Fast forward a few years later, I'm talking to you [laughs].

What did it mean to you to bring the FlyGod image abroad?

Yo, man. It was crazy. I was the only guy out there that looked like me. If you didn't know me, you'd be like, "Who is this dude?" Because there's a difference between when you see my jewelry in pictures and when you see it in person. That shit gone light up a whole room. The pictures don't do it no justice. I literally look like a walking lightbulb. Wearing all that on my neck, and my style—I was out there wearing one-of-one pieces. People was seeing clothes on me that they never seen before. They might have seen me in Off-White™, but this was a one-of-one Off-White™ piece. Or they might seen me in some Casablanca, but this is a one-of-one Casablanca. I was going everywhere with the newest drip on, all this jewelry on, and the paparazzi was eating that shit alive. Even when I went to New York Fashion Week after Paris, a lot of the paparazzi who were at Paris was in New York, and they was like, "Yo, you killed Paris, man. I was hoping you was coming here." And they start taking pictures of me there. I'm being accepted now in the fashion world, which is beautiful, because I've always wanted to be accepted in the fashion world more than the musical world, honestly. But both those things go hand-in-hand with Westside Gunn. With me, when you think of hip hop you think of fashion; when you think of fashion, you also incorporate hip hop.

To touch on your comment about wanting to be accepted in the fashion world more than the music world, you've mentioned that you don't want to be considered a rapper. What do you want to be considered?

I'm just an artist in general. When I approach every project, it's like I start off with a blank canvas. And however I end up, that's the album. You know, I ain't never want to be put into a box. There are things I still wanna do, and it may catch people off guard. They may be like, "Oh, what is he doing? This is wack!" Because so many people put me in a box of being an MC and a rapper that they're like, "He can't do this. This isn't him. He fell off. He's changed. He's Hollywood now." I'm already expecting that. That's why I can even speak on it now; I know how they think. You know, pretty soon I'm going to strike on a lot of things I want to do.

What are some of those other things?

Different sounds. I was freestyling on a damn EDM beat the other day. This is the one thing I learned from Kanye—I mean I always felt like this—but just me talking with him, he think like how I think: Always just be yourself. Whatever you want to do, and it makes you happy, do it. You're gonna have people who hate on everything you do. Even if you do the impossible, someone is still gonna hate. So just do whatever makes you happy. If I want to rap over EDM beats, people gonna say I changed, I'm Hollywood, I'm fake, yada yada yada. But if I still happy doing it, and I wanna do it, why can't I do it? Like I wanna start writing R&B records—I do that in my spare time. But you don't know that.

You obviously have a love for fashion, but you've said before that in addition to that, you also love art, design, and executive producing more than actually rapping. What do you get out of these mediums that you can't get out of rapping?

It's less pressure. When I'm doing all those other things, I'm just doing things I love to do. And it's just fun. It's fun executive producing, picking beats for other people—that's dope. Putting the songs in order, getting skits, naming tracks, doing artwork for it—those are things I love to do. Rap is pressure.

How so?

Rap is always competitive. It's not even that Griselda is competing; we're not. It's just the simple fact that we're a group, and Dreamville is a group, and TDE is a group. The moment you start making trash, your career could be over. Right then and there. That's why I continue to get better and put the pressure on myself every time I release a project because people are listening to me to see if I'm gonna fall off, not even to celebrate. It's like Floyd [Mayweather]. People watch Floyd to lose, not to win. You're not even excited for him winning; you done watched him win fifty times. You trying to see Floyd get knocked out. It's the same thing with me. We have a rap on a song with Conway [the Machine], with Benny [the Butcher], with Tyler [the Creator], with Joey [Bada$$], with Freddie [Gibbs], with Roc Marcy—these are all elite MCs. You have to come, or it gonna sound horrible. Tyler just won the Grammy for best rap album, and I have to go on the song with him! And he's just fresh off the Grammy! That's the pressure of being a rapper. Everything else for me is just fun.

With all that said, what do you see as the benefits of rapping? What does rapping do for you?

I touch the world when I rap. There's a kid probably in the middle of Indonesia playing Pray for Paris right now [laughs], you know what I'm saying? That's my communication to the world. You never know who's listening. I get people in my DMs from every walk of life, every nationality, every age group. It's like, a kid, three-years old, in the car seat going, "Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom!" That's love. That's culture. That's what keeps me going. That kid might not understand this two-hundred dollar sweatshirt, but that kid gets the music. The rap actually helps everything. I owe it all to the rap. If it wasn't for rapping, none of this would've happened. Westside Gunn, the rapper, is me connecting with the world. This is what I have to do for you to understand the fashion, for you to understand the art, for you to understand the wrestling side. You have to hear it through the music first.

I touch the world when I rap.

Like you've been saying, you have an all-star line up of features on this album. What is it about you that attracts these talented musicians from both the old and new school?

Of course, I'm always myself. When you're yourself, people respect that. A lot of people are characters in this shit, bro. The people you see on TV or hear on the radio, are not who they are in person. I'm probably the biggest wrestling fan there is, and people be like, "Why do you watch it? You know it's fake." And I be like, "You listen to hip hop, and shit, ninety-percent of that is fake!" What's the difference? Hip hop is full of wrestling type characters, too. These artists, they build a character and stick to it, but if you really do your research on them, you'd be like, "Ah, this is not who he says he is." So the good thing about me is you do your research on me and everything checks out. I haven’t told a lie yet. It's pointless. And I think people respect that about me. Just being myself.

I took a chance on bringing a style to the game that was basically thrown away. It wasn't even respected anymore. I brought it back to the point where you have LeBron co-signing, drake co-signing, Hov and Ye and Nas and Travis Scott. I brought a style back, and I think people just missed it. They want that old-school back.

How'd you go about curating the list of collaborators for the album?

It always just starts with the beat. I never know who's gonna be on the whole project, I just go from song to song, track to track, and it starts off with the production. Once I hear the beat, I already can hear who would sound good on it. I know I would kill it, but I'd be like, "Damn, Freddie Gibbs would sound crazy on this beat." The good thing about me is that I already have relationships with the majority of everyone I work with. It's just good relationships, bro. We're all here for the culture and pushing it. When we come together, it's not about charts, it's not about money, it's not about nothing. It's about MCs coming together and doing something dope for the culture.

Do you still get shit for coming from Buffalo, a part of New York that's not known for its hip hop?

Of course, of course, of course. Being from Buffalo, we'd always gotten the shitty end of the stick. Nobody came to ever check for us. New York City always thought we was cows and chickens and whatever, until you really go into prison. The prison system is what opens your eyes to Buffalo. When you in the state prison, whether you from the boroughs, whether you from Rochester, Albany, Buffalo—you all locked up in the same place. People from all over try to test you. Buffalo had to work extra hard in prison; we gonna have to fight for our respect. It's the same way with the music. I had to fight for our respect because people would try to play us too: "Nothing come from Buffalo. Nobody hot from Buffalo." Still to this day. That's why I had that big ass billboard in the middle of Times Square. It been up there since October, and it's about to be May. Now people respect it, but at first, it was definitely hard.

This era of hip hop we're in is unprecedented. In a GQ interview with you and Virgil, he called it "a renaissance of black creatives." Hip hop isn't just music now; it's everything. Where can hip hop go next?

Right now, I'm spearheading it. Our movement, what we're doing right now, hasn't been done since maybe Ye. I see so much, bro. We're in a good time. There's gonna be a shift in sound, which has been needed for over a decade. I feel like now, there's gonna be a lot more people not scared to sound like themselves. New York people was trying to sound like they was from Atlanta.

So you think hip hop is shifting back to region specific sounds?

Of course. Everything comes back around. Full circle. It's always about timing. Griselda is showing you it's coming back around. We're opening up that door. Six years ago you wouldn't have had LeBron playing Benny. Now he is.

You're a guy with a big vision. What do you see yourself doing next? What's coming after this album?

Another album [laughs]. I'm about to already start working on two projects at the same time. I fly to LA this weekend to work on an album with Alchemist and Derringer. [Pray for Paris] haven't even been out two weeks and I'm already starting on my next album.

I read that there's a Madlib album in the works?

Of course, of course, of course. That's what I'm saying. You will get at least three to four more projects this year. I still got Gunnlib, I still got my Shady album, and I'm still gonna do something for the street. Already, it's back to the music.

Music

CHASING ROY BLAIR

November 18, 2024

For those of us a little too deep in our feels in 2017, Roy Blair was an oasis in an age of uncertainty. It was the era of interpersonal lyricism: vulnerable storytelling set against synth-heavy backdrops tied together with grounding hooks. Lost in the ruins of Spotify, stumbling across artists who brought raw emotion to life, we found ourselves captivated by Blair’s debut album, Cat Heaven. A mind-altering introduction to his genius, the album became the soundtrack to our year—from the joyous highs to the moments where only his words could describe the anxieties we couldn’t articulate. Roy did for us what other artists tried to do.

But then, when we needed him most, he vanished. Fans turned to Reddit deep dives marked with threads like “r/WHERE_IS_ROY_BLAIR?” as rumors swirled about an imminent second album. Years passed. The wait grew longer. But, half a decade later, the rumors proved true.

Intro + Interview by: Cassie Jekanoski
Photography by: Jeret Cheatham

Suddenly, notifications were lighting up phones everywhere: Roy Blair was back with a new project, Chasing Moving Trains. First came “Panavision” — a sweeping accumulation of his past, present, and future. Then, “Strawberry,” an upbeat, serotonin-laced track destined for replays. When the full album finally dropped, it was unmistakable—this was the purest embodiment of Roy Blair yet.

In an exclusive interview with the artist, office sat down with Blair to discuss the long-awaited release of Chasing Moving Trains, the headspace that defined his hiatus, and what lies ahead.

Read on as we delve into the truths behind those restless Reddit threads and answer the questions we’ve all been dying to know the answers to.

CASSIE– It's been a year for me since I've done an interview with somebody, so thank you for taking the time to do this. So first off, hi. How are you doing?

ROY BLAIR– I'm good. Sick. Yeah, just taking it day by day right now, honestly.

Cool. And where are you now?

New York.

Well, first off, I just wanted to say that I've been a fan of your music since literally 2017, 2018, and some of your songs have really just been the soundtrack to some of my happiest/most sentimental memories that I have had over the years. So thank you for sharing your art with us.

That means a lot. Thank you. I mean, it's so nice. I did another interview with someone and it's been half a decade or more, so the people who would be interviewing me are like, "Oh, I listened to your music." And that's so cool. Whereas when I was first doing interviews around Cat Heaven, it was like, "Who are you?" That was more of the vibe.

Damn. I mean, well, yeah, I'm coming out of interview retirement to do this. So let's get into it. So Chasing Moving Trains, what is the significance of this album title for you?

It's a few things. So I would say the main point of it is just always wanting some sort of perfection or the thing that you dream in your head to fully come to life. It’s always chasing this non-existent utopia of achieving what you want to achieve in life. It's sort of, the grass is greener on the other side always, and so you’re never really settling and appreciating what you have in front of you. The steps along the way I think are beautiful and worth just as much of your time, or maybe more of your time, than getting to the final thing. The point of the title is always chasing this ideal that you have in your head. And then the other thing is this is a record about finding yourself and going out into the world and learning more about yourself by meeting more people, by experiencing more things. The title is also literally this- I'm taking so many trains that I'm almost missing the train, if you will.

The train itself.

Yeah, or I'm traveling so much, whether it be on tour or just working on the record. I recorded the record in a few places. It's just this nonstop travel and exploration of the world and in turn yourself as well.

Sick. I feel like as an artist, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's in searching for that end goal, that maybe sometimes you stop to kind of realize where you've been, the different things that you've learned, and the different people that you've met along the way.

Totally.

I got a chance to listen to the album and I've literally been listening nonstop.

That's amazing. Thank you.

It's so good. In the title song itself, you repeat the phrase, "sometimes I can't recognize myself." Is that something that you would want to dive deeper into?

I don't know if anyone else has this experience, but sometimes I think I have a depersonalization, or I think there's an actual phrase for it, where you almost don't feel like you're in your own body. I think the thing I'm talking about is where sometimes you literally feel outside of your body. You're watching a person live your life, and sometimes I think I have that. I think sometimes I can feel so empty or in such a strange place in my life that I almost feel like I'm not recognizing the person I am. I'm not living in the moment or being present that I don't even know sometimes who I am, which is, I think that goes back to that album title and why that's the title track. There's this recurring kind of narrative thread in the record about shadows and reflections. I was trying to connect this surrealism thing where basically- I don't know. I don't want to maybe ruin it or maybe over explain it, but that does tie into this thing I was trying to tell with basically a shadow of me following me, being paranoid about my career, and my life. The main concept is really just that sometimes I literally look in the mirror and be like, I don't know who I'm looking at sometimes because maybe I'm just so out of it, or not in the moment.

Well, would you say that, especially with this new album, would you say that this a cathartic release for you and by putting this album out you're able to recognize yourself and know who you are?

Yeah, I think so for sure. I think in a funny way, spending as much time as I did with this record and falling in and out of love with making it. There was a time where I was kind of just like, “I don't really like making music anymore.” I think I was so stressed about the concept of, "Oh, I have to finish this. People are waiting for this." At this point, I'm off social media and I have to come back at some point. Then it started to pile onto me, and then I was like, "Okay, I'm going to take a step away from this." And then I started DJing in New York. This was summer 2022, and that kind of got me excited again about making music. I started locking back in on the record and I think in a funny way, even the process of making this record was cathartic because I sat with it for so long and I sat away from the audience for so long. This record is so me. You know what I mean? There's no, "Oh, I'm trying to keep up with a system." It's really just me being indulgent in a good way and being confident about it. I think it's definitely cathartic for me.

No, that's sick to hear. I'm glad that all of those different experiences brought you back into making music. But a big question that I feel like many fans are curious about was what you kind of brought up a little bit, but just taking some time in between Cat Heaven and Chasing Moving Trains. Was there anything else that you kind of wanted to bring up that was going through your mind during those years?

Yeah, I mean, the main idea is I started working on this record in January 2019. Well, honestly, I was trying to start the day after I finished Cat Heaven and I think all of 2018 was me trying to figure out what the record was going to be tonally. And then the first song that is on the album that we made was "Garden" and that was December 2018. And then the newest song in the record is 2021.

Which one?

It's "Belmont."

Okay, cool.

Well, that song is actually from 2019, but we flipped it completely. I would say that when I was working on that song, it was much different, and I was working on it a lot in 2021. But technically the newest song is "Strawberry" from Summer 2020 in terms of fresh idea. But I would argue that "Belmont" changed so much that it's almost a different song entirely. We were in London when COVID happened, working on this album, I had just made "Plum," and then the lockdown stuff was really getting serious, and we got back from London the week before everything actually closed. We were going to go to Tokyo, but that got canceled. We were going to go in April, and then it was kind of just like, "So what are we going to do now that there's this big space in between?" But now with as much time that has passed, people haven't fully thought about that being a part of this story.

I mean, it definitely is.

Yeah. And then we started basically picking work back up at the end of 2020. It was a lot of figuring out what I wanted to say that honestly took the most amount of time, just lyrics and also me growing up in real time. Maybe there were songs, ideas, or verses where I felt that was an older version of me, and that didn't really feel like the future of who I am and what I really want to be. The album took this long, might as well make it count, you know? I don't want to put out something just to put out something. At this point it's gotta matter.

Definitely.

The lockdown and everything in 2020 really kind of made me take a step back and just start existing more in real life. And then I started just growing up and the record took a long time because of that.

Yeah, I mean, that totally makes sense. I feel like especially in these past few years, there has been so much change happening that no one really had control over. So I totally get that break and need to figure out who you are, not even just as an artist, but just as a person in general, especially at such a pivotal turning point. How would you say you've grown as an artist since Cat Heaven to where you're at now? And has that growth been reflected in this new album?

First thing is just taste wise. My taste has expanded a lot just in terms of what I'm listening to. There was a lot of electronic music I got into in 2018 that just shaped a whole section of who Roy Blair is going forward that you hear on Graffiti and you hear a little bit more on this. I think that's a big component. I think Cat Heaven, Chasing Moving Trains, and even Graffiti, are pretty similar, and I think if you're a fan of me, you can clock that. I think obviously there's a lot of production differences, but I think at the core, you could listen to Cat Heaven, Chasing Moving Trains, and go, "Okay, he's kind of doing similar things with structure here, or narrative. This feels like the climax of both records." I still love Cat Heaven, still go back to that record, and go, "Hey, I didn't really know what I was doing other than that I think I have good sensibilities for how an album should feel front to back." I figured it out, and that resonated with people, and I knew that, so I wanted to do a better version of that basically. So I think the only things that have really changed is just that I got a bigger budget to do this, and I'm working with maybe more people, but honestly, I've kind of kept some of the things very similar because I think the things that mean a lot to the fans also mean a lot to me.

I can definitely see from 2017 to now, and even your project in between, you have influences from both of those, and it's kind of the perfect culmination in Chasing Moving Trains where you get that synth, you get that techno. But then it also breaks down to where it's just you being raw and singing the lyrics that are still really impactful and meaningful, but it's kind of a whole big present all wrapped into one.

I really connect "Rain" on this album to "Grand Theft Auto." Originally it was supposed to be the same amount of tracks, but I cut it down because it's about the album being better, not always about narrative. But there are a lot of counterparts in terms of you could look at this song and it's this song, or you can look at that song and it's kind of similar to what he was doing with that song. But yeah, I think there's a lot of similarities. There's a lot of threads between both records, or all three records for that matter.

Yeah, definitely. I think I'm kind of deciding what my favorite track from this album is. I think as of right now it's Amberwood.

Oh, sick.

The first time listening to it, I literally got the craziest chills and had to text all my friends. I was like, "Oh my God, just wait until this song comes out. You guys are going to freak out." I feel like it's raw. The lyrics are really beautiful and also a bit haunting. At least what I took away from it was what you were going through and talking about those first feelings you had when first starting to make music and the aftermath of that. So can you get into what you were feeling when you were writing this song?

I think the idea started in Iceland. Originally it was basically up until when the drums drop was the original version, and then there was kind of a different hook, and I was like, "Nah, this hook, it's not very good. Let's just take it off. And I don't like where the song goes." In London in February of 2020, we got to the part where the drums drop and then we were trying to figure it out, but I didn't write that second verse until summer 2020. So if you think about it, it's kind of funny because those verses feel different in energy, or just maybe where my head's at in terms of where I'm at in my career, you know what I mean? When I first started that, just to be honest, I didn't have an idea. We were making music day in and day out in Iceland, and it kind of just came to me and I was like, "Oh, this is a cool concept." As I was sitting on that, my energy towards being in the music industry started to shift slightly, and just the tone of my career or certain things that were frustrating me a lot, being independent at the time started changing. Then you got the third verse where it almost feels like the tone of where it's getting to where I'm at, and the feeling of where I'm at shifting. You can kind of feel it shift in real time over the song.

You definitely see it. It's really interesting to hear your insight on it and where you were spatially location-wise and everything when you were writing that song and finishing all of that up. Do you have a personal favorite from the album?

Yeah, I think so. I think that it changes a lot for me, which is always a good sign where I'm like, "Oh, this one's actually clicking." I think it used to be "Panavision" for a while, and then now I think a lot this year it's been "Garden." For a long time it was also "Plum." And then I think the title track to me these days, I like listening to it a lot. I think that run from basically Chasing Moving Trains to the end of the album is pretty fucking great. Maybe I'll start with "Panavision" and then I'll just let the album run and I'll be like, alright, I'm just going to listen to the rest of the record, which is a good sign.

Sick, "Garden's" really, really great. So I feel like throughout this, you've been talking about different locations and whether in Iceland, London, or Japan not happening at that moment. So you were kind of traveling in all these different places. Are there any other places that you were at when you were making the album?

Just New York a lot. So I was in LA and it was feeling pretty stagnant. This was like 2018, and I was doing sessions and nothing was feeling great. I would go to New York for a show or something and I'd do a session with these guys I ended up working with. And then me and my friend Edgar, went to New York at the beginning of 2019 to work with these guys. It was icy and cold, and we were listening to Radiohead and a bunch of stuff, and it was just very different. It was a tone shift the minute we landed, and then it kind of reflected immediately in the music we were making. So I would argue it's kind of like New York, Iceland, London, and then maybe in sort of a fake way Japan as well. I think it's still narratively a part of the record, even if we didn't go, I think the record theoretically ends there or something, or maybe ends with me coming back home to LA or New York. I think that the concept at the end of the record is me stepping off the train and into a new place or into a new part of my life, if you will.

Sick. So would you say that, so now you're living in New York, what is it about the city that continues to inspire you?

All of my friends here are just amazing artists. Everyone I know here doesn't feel like they always have to be online or share everything they're doing all the time. It's not very performative. So it's just me and my friends and we make music at each other's places and we're just hanging out. And sometimes we go to stuff, but not really. I'm able to find more of the stuff that I resonate with hobby-wise. I go to the movies all the time here, I see old movies at Metrograph, I go buy used CDs, or go bike at the park near me. There's just a lot more of a sense that I can go outside and find something that's going to fulfill the non-music aspect of me that for some reason I just struggled to find in LA.

That's cool. I love to hear that. I totally understand where it's so easy to get caught up and wrapped up in a scene. You mentioned it earlier too, about DJing these past couple of years, so now that this new project is out, do you think that DJing is something that you'll continue to do?

Yeah, definitely. I'm specific in what I like. I'm probably not a good DJ definition wise just because I think it's valid that a part of DJing is making the crowd entertained, so I don't know if it's that I'm DJing for the wrong crowd. I don't really like a lot of new stuff, the stuff I play I feel like is not super loud either. It's kind of just quieter music. So I don't know. I love doing it. I don't get offered a lot of gigs, honestly, but I'm not really looking. I don't go out and go like, "Hey, book me, book me." This is kind of like a hobby for me. I'm so down to do it more, it's just a matter of when, or if it gets brought up to me really.

How similar or different your mixes are compared to the music that you make? And what kind of artists inspired Chasing Moving Trains?

One of the big influences that I would recommend anyone to check out is the Trainspotting soundtrack. I was scared by it. The music itself freaked me out when I was younger. But as I got older and rewatched the movie, I'm doing this electronic album studying and I'm like, "Oh, yeah, I love this song." Underworld is a nineties, early two thousands electronic group from the UK and they're amazing. It was really random because specifically "Garden" is pretty inspired by them. We were in London working at the studio that's like three hours outside of London, and they were randomly there at the studio. I was like, "What the fuck? This is crazy." And then I got to meet them, talked to them for a second, and that was really cool. I would say they're a big influence on this. I mean, other electronic acts, Ken Ishii. I like a lot of hard techno stuff. I mean, Daft Punk's first album Homework, I literally have studied the fuck out of that record. I'm obsessed with it, and I play remixes of that record every time. I always find a new remix that someone did in the nineties, and I'll play it every time I'm DJing. DJ Shadow was in a group for one album called Unkle, which is a trip hop kind of duo thing where they brought on a lot of artists like Thom Yorke from Radiohead to sing. That record Psyence Fiction really inspired me, honestly.

Sick. How important is it for you to continue creating all these compelling sounds and visuals as the album continues to roll out?

So I think it's going to be next year. I'm basically going to be working on the world of this all of next year. Even with Cat Heaven, I spent two years on that, and I basically worked on the world of that for the entire, maybe a year and a half after that record. I mean, in reality, all of 2018, I basically just promoted that record or did videos just kept working on it. And I think I'm going to do the same with this.

When I found out that you were putting out something new, I went on to Spotify and I got a notification that you had an album coming out. And literally, I think I scared my friends. I started freaking out, and they were like, "What?" And I was like, "You guys don't understand. Something crazy is happening right now." How has people's reaction been as you've been teasing the album and coming out with singles, and how has all of that been making you feel?

It's just like wow, because anyone who works with me will be the first one to tell you that the business side of this or the "We're trying to make a career," I am so not focused on that at all. I have an idea and I'm going to waste three years of my life on it. All I can do is make the best art I possibly can, or be like, "Hey, would 15-year-old me get inspired or be excited about this?" I've built my entire career off of that concept. If the money comes, or if the success comes based off of that, that's all. That doesn't even need to happen. As long as I can survive and try to execute ideas that I have, I think that's all that matters to me. So I guess with saying that, I think the thing that is the most beautiful about this whole thing is just I don't think this album has crazy buzz at all right now. I put out a song and a video and I'm like, "Oh, sick, a hundred thousand streams in the first week.” To me, that's good. Maybe the full record needs to come out for people to fully get it. I think the amazing thing is that I didn't really know if the fans from Cat Heaven would stay? Would they still check in? And to be honest with you, I think those are the main people. I even checked the backend of Spotify recently, and it was like, my fan base is 90%, 22, 23 years old. And I'm like, that's crazy.

Then that adds up!

Those kids from five years ago grew up, and those are the main, and almost only people listening to me, which is beautiful. I think that's amazing. That whole concept of some kids starting high school and now maybe are either graduating college or something like that where it's this huge life change. I do think this record will impact people in the ways that I was feeling when I started it, honestly. I really think it's going to hit in that way for people where they're going to be like, "Oh, Cat Heaven meant something to me at this time. I was going through this. I was becoming an adult," and then this record will be like, "Oh, I'm out of college. I had my first love maybe, and I lost that." I think the music's going to resonate in a big way with the people who stayed on board.

I feel like you touched on that more specifically in "Amberwood" where you are speaking about growing up. I'm excited for the whole thing to release and to see new people getting to experience your music.

Well, first off, I think this record has more for everyone, honestly, even than Cat Heaven, which is crazy. I think so many people are going to be like, this one's my favorite. Or this one's my favorite. Because it kind of goes over a lot of different sub genres or just tones through the record. I think that it's really a grower thing where people have to sit with the record for a second and the dust kind of has to clear a little bit.

Well, take it from me as somebody that was like, "oh my God, Cat Heaven's the best thing ever." And now also listening to this one, it's all that I've been talking about. I'm really excited for just the mass audience to be able to hear the album from beginning to end, because I really do think that it takes you on a journey and a deeper insight into your mindset. If they were fans of Cat Heaven, they're going to be fans of this one as well.

Yeah. Thank you.

Is there a message that you want your audience to take away from this album?

I think the main thing is just enjoy the moment and enjoy the smaller things in life. We're all in the big race or whatever to do something with our lives and make some sort of impact. But I think more now than ever, the moments spent with people you love or the things you care about matter so much because of how fast everything is. I think the other thing is don't give up hope. I think it's an optimistic record.

I feel like people will definitely take all of that, and you can hear it through your sound and the songs on this album. But, I guess I have one more question left. So I want to talk about plans for touring and performing, and if you have anything in the works.

I don't want to say it too much, but the first half of next year.

Sick so soon. And are you excited about it?

I mean, I've been dreaming about it. The last show I ever did was a fucking nightmare.

Really?

It was a festival show and nothing worked. The line on "Amberwood" where I say "I had dreams of playing Coachella" or whatever. I don't think Coachella's the end all be all for me, but obviously when I was a kid, I was like, "Oh, I want to play shows and everything." I actually had a dream of me playing Coachella, and it actually went terribly wrong. This was three years ago or something, and it was just like, oh, the mic doesn't work and you're trying to plug in your phone. I don't know if I'm crazy, but I feel like other artists have this dream where they're trying to perform, but the mic won't turn on.

It's like Grimes' set.

I literally had that where I had this festival gig at the end of 2019. It was my last show and nothing was working. We literally got the mic working in the last five minutes. I performed two songs, with no in-ears. I couldn't hear the track. I just performed, went to the crowd, sang it, and then left. And that was literally the last show I played. So I have that dangling over me, and I'm like, fuck that. I've always loved live shows for what I think I can do with it. I actually don't love going to see live music that much. I don't go to shows very often other than DJ stuff, because I just have to be a really big fan to be fully in it, or it has to be a really energetic show. Either going to go see ASAP Rocky where everyone's jumping— that's obviously really fun for me. Or I have to go see My Bloody Valentine, where I'm just kind of obsessed and mesmerized. I have so many ideas for what I think the live show could be. I've been thinking about it for five years, so it's going to be easy for me. I think as soon as this album's out, I'm going to start working on it.

I feel like everyone will be really, really excited. Especially people in New York. I feel like so many people will come out for that.

Music

You’ll Never Guess DJ_Dave’s Next Move

Angelina Hazzouri — Before we get into this new remix, how did you get started making music with code?

DJ_Dave — I got started when I was in college, actually. I was taking random classes, trying to figure out what I wanted to do after I had switched my major from fashion. I was doing a bit of basic web development coding, and I discovered that I really enjoyed it. So I ended up taking a class in live coding, and we learned Sonic Pi, which is a live coding environment that I've been using ever since. I knew right away that it was something I was really obsessed with.

I graduated into COVID, so I had a year to just hang around and figure it out, honestly. I had a job—I was fully going in another direction. I didn't fully accept this as my career fate until a year after that. And then I realized this is something I really love and something that other people seem to enjoy discovering with me. So I thought, let me just take a leap of faith and just do this going forward.

That's so cool. Did you play instruments before, or did you kind of just discover [making] music through coding?

I did, I grew up playing instruments. I would jump around—I would take lessons in one instrument for about a year and then would be like, “I want to play something else!”

I never really produced anything though—I just enjoyed music and then discovering live coding and was like, “Oh, this is a kind of production structure that I actually really like. Wow.” I feel like what's cool about this is it's obviously your art, but it's heavily centered around technology.

What is your relationship to technology and how has that played a part in everything?

My relationship to technology is honestly, like, so weird. [laughs]

Obviously, I love certain areas of technology, and I'm very much at this intersection of art and technology, but I just think that it can be such a daunting genre of things. New technologies are really intimidating. It's like a whole new entity to learn how to communicate with.

I think a lot of times, it can steer people in the wrong direction or make them excited about something. I've just always tried to take the functionality of certain technologies and tools at face value and be like, at its core, what can this do? And how does it fit into my life and my work? And I've just kind of gone from there. It's really hard for me to back a new technology, honestly. Really? Yeah. My relationship to technology is interesting. It literally feels like a relationship. [laughs] There are certain things that I like to compromise on and certain things that I win on. So it's, you know, figuring out where we fit together.

Yeah, that sounds like a relationship. It's interesting because so much of what you do is dependent on technology. For everyone else, I feel like there's this whole conversation about whether AI will take over our jobs—but you kind of embrace that.

Yeah. I mean, AI is [pauses]... there are a lot of really obvious dangers of it. Those are what I think of first when I think of AI. Like there are a lot of really bad use cases of AI that we're already seeing, but they’re at face value. It's a really useful tool when used in good ways—like when it's used for making art in a way that's not taking other people's. Using it for unique output. AI is also helpful when it’s used to better our practices in certain areas. For example, I'm collaborating with an AI artist for this “infinite remix” release, but that's really the only time I've dabbled in AI so far. So, it’s like, you know, I'm treading lightly.

I'm super interested to hear more about the infinite remix with Dadabots—I don't even know what to ask because I don't fully understand it. So what can you tell me about it?

That's like the most valid question ever. [laughs] I fully sat in a workshop with my two friends who made this and they explained everything about their process,and I’m still not totally sure how it works. But basically they are fine artists / musicians, and they’ve been developing their AI tools for years. They’re known for a live stream they’ve had running since 2018, which is possibly the longest running YouTube live stream ever and it’s constantly producing unique content.

Oh my God?

High level overview — their AI model is trained on what certain genres sound like, for example, the drum patterns or vocal melodies a genre would use. And so their live stream that’s been running for 6 years has been constantly spitting out a long, long version of a death metal song

Oh my God.

Yeah. I always thought they were super cool ever since we met on my university tour, and I knew I wanted to collaborate when we met. When it came time for Naive to come out, it seemed really right to collaborate with them, and I asked them, “What if you just use the same model that you have? What if you just give it the stems of my song “Naive” and we just start a live stream that remixes it for however long?”

That’s insane, I can’t wait to stream the remix. When “Naive" originally came out, you did the whole thing on Instagram making it look like your account got hacked, which was so sick.

Thank you.

I also feel like it's low-key a risk to make it look like your Instagram got hacked. What was the thinking behind that? Were you nervous at all that people were going to report your Instagram for being hacked?

Yes! Actually, I got my Instagram taken down for a little—it's so funny, dude—because yeah, I knew that there were risks associated. I was like, a lot of people are going to think this is real. I lost a few hundred followers, but I also gained a few hundred new ones. I just know that honestly, there's that element of shock value.

The whole concept was that I want people to genuinely question the origins of everything that I was about to put out for the next couple of weeks and question if it's safe, if it's me. I wanted to instill doubt in people about my motives or whose motives are behind all of it.

Never let them know your next move.

Never let them know my next move. I made sure I was really careful to drop hints as much as I could, because I knew it was going to be a puzzle—something that people could solve. It was actually so crazy because after I posted my first Instagram—the one that really got people—a couple of people in my Discord immediately solved the whole thing.

From one post? They know you too well.

I know, they immediately got it. They were like, “She's releasing a song called ‘Naive’ on August 29th.” It was crazy.

What do you think you'll do after this project with Dadabots? Do you think this will be a series?

After this phase, I'm going to be going into this phase of transparency and cybersecurity. I want to have cybersecurity, with a much more trustworthy vibe.

Because if my last release was all about being sketchy and mysterious and almost malicious, I want the next phase to be all about being transparent.Using technology only for good, having accessible products that people can interact with—that sort of thing.

There's obviously going to be music and then outside of that, there will be projects that have more of an honest identity, which I'm excited about.

That sounds so cool. It sounds like you're building a world, if that makes sense. I feel like what you do obviously transcends just music because it's not just music.

Yeah, it was with Josh [Kohno] and Sophia [Castillo] that we came up with this world-building idea. I've always been almost overwhelmed with the amount of things that I want to fit into my project because if I kept it to just music, I would literally be missing parts. I wouldn't be able to work with certain people that I want to, or I wouldn't be able to have this global perspective on things if I didn't expand it outside of music. So this just ended up being the perfect framework for me to include everyone that I wanted to.

This ended up being the solution, and it's been so perfect and fun.

Infinite Remix of ‘Naive’ by DJ_Dave and Sipper can be streamed here.

Music

Jacob Mühlrad: Where Classical Music Meets the Unexpected

November 15, 2024

Contemporary classical music often struggles to stay relevant, particularly in the U.S., where it's mostly confined to academic spaces. But Swedish composer Jacob Mühlrad is reshaping the genre and he sells out concert halls on his own in Stockholm.

Jacob Mühlrad’s versatility shines through his projects. In November, he premieres a symphony about the biosphere that will even travel to Tasmania. He’s also co-produced two tracks for rapper 070 Shake's new album and is set to release a joint single with her next year.

His work has been performed in prestigious venues like Carnegie Hall in New York and Suntory Hall in Tokyo, but his journey is anything but traditional. Jacob moves between two contrasting worlds: studio sessions with artists like 070 Shake and formal meetings with orchestras.

By Enzo Holdt
Photography by Mikael Jansson and Pierre Björk

Jacob’s drive stems from his family history. As the grandson of Holocaust survivors, he grew up with a deep awareness of life’s fragility. “I’ve always felt my life has to mean something,” he reflects.

His collaboration with 070 Shake highlights his ability to connect across genres. The two first met late at night in artist Alexander Wessely’s studio. Over Hennessy and music talk, they bonded instantly. Their creative process, whether at former ABBA artist Benny Andersson’s studio or in Stockholm, is marked by an unspoken understanding.

Songs like Sin and Blood On My Hands grew from this connection. “She started singing, and we just knew where the other was going,” says Mühlrad. Moments like Shake’s impromptu lyrics became defining features of their work together.

For Jacob Mühlrad, crossing boundaries isn’t just a creative choice—it’s a necessity. Balancing classical and contemporary, he proves it’s possible to bridge musical worlds without losing oneself.