KidSuper, Giggs & Quavo's Big in Da Game

ZACH wears SHIRT, JACKET, PANTS by GUCCI, SHOES by SEBAGO, HAT is TALENT’S OWN

HAYLEY wears DRESS, SHOES by ACNE STUDIOS, RINGS by BURBERRY

On an afternoon in early December, I sat on a lawn chair with my legs crisscrossed, facing a trio of musicians with whom I also felt I’ve had a relationship with. Though for over fifteen years, there were as many degrees of separation between us as there are between a pre-teen and her clock radio. However, over the last year, I have been honored to befriend, to love, and to understand the complex individuals that make up the band Paramore.

Hayley Williams, Zac Farro, and Taylor York of Franklin, Tennessee — the three members who make up the group today, each of whom has been in some facet in the band since its 2004 insemination, though York did not become an official member until 2007 — are no strangers to trials and tribulations. But, today, just days following Christine McVie’s passing, as we sip Rooibos tea on the East Side of Los Angeles, Williams reminds me of Zane Lowe’s remark to the fact that, not unlike Fleetwood Mac, these three have also had to face romantic, familial, and deeply personal obstacles in front of an avid and hungry audience — whom I’d like to add was armed with internet-born information as flimsy and full of holes as cheesecloth. “About 5% of our Wikipedia is accurate,” Williams quips with a subtle southern accent, rolling her eyes.

Of course, the (true) story of the past is important. It provides context, and in this case it’s fraught with not only drama and relationships broken and repaired like Kintsugi, but it’s replete with great hits, and offers an incredible tale of teenagers rising from a small-town church group to take the title of pop-punk royalty. But the past is also simply the past. And unlike many others who found success young, with Paramore, it’s the future — or rather, the present — where their power and purpose lie. This fact is proven beyond a doubt with their latest album – This is Why — the first project as Paramore after a four-year break, during which they experienced the pandemic and the protests from their Nashville homes. It’s funky, it’s politically charged, and it’s different. Each track is drenched with the sound and feel of artists – and humans – who have matured, who have paused to collect their confidence and gain new perspective. And while it’s unlike anything Paramore has presented to us yet, it feels inherently right. Many of us will follow our former selves into the gates of insanity, trying to do the same thing over and over, expecting different results, expecting the validation we’ve received in the past. This worked once, it should work again. But the world continues to spin, we age, and as Eckhart Tolle told Oprah, “We must evolve or die.” This is Why is the culmination of that sentiment, a celebration of who these artists are, and who their audience is today.

TAYLOR wears TOP by MR. SATURDAY, SHIRT by KEISER CLARK, SHOES by DR. MARTENS

HAYLEY wears DRESS, JACKET by DION LEE, SHOES by DR. MARTENS

ZACH  wears SHIRT, JACKET, PANTS by GUCCI, SHOES by SEBAGO, HAT is TALENT’S OWN

I can tell there’s a pretty specific, unique relationship between the three of you. You’ve taken breaks as Paramore the band, but you’ve known each other, and been connected in some form, for your whole lives. And you’re together again. On set, I heard Hayley say, "Taylor and I think about doom a lot, but then Zac makes us laugh." I’m curious about the dynamic that’s seen you through the last twenty years. 

Hayley Williams— I really love our friendships. They’re very rare to me, and I wake up every day very grateful, because there's been times where we didn't have this, and where I thought I was way further away from them than I was. The context of growing up together helps everything so much. There was a time where Taylor and I were the only people in the band, and I feel like we did a pretty good job of keeping the train moving forward. It’s the way we work, but we get really esoteric about shit in a way that can be unnecessary at times. I'm real sensitive to the dark stuff, and there's nothing wrong with that, but it's better when you have a counterweight to that. And Zac has this energy — he’s a connector, and loves pulling people together. He's the reason me and Taylor met, which says it all. So when he came back into the band, we realized how much we had needed and missed it. This [balance] is how we get along, how we communicate, and creates the dynamic that we have now, and had in the earliest days, too. 

Zac Farro— And it’s not just about how we’ve structured the three of us, it’s also about how Hayley has structured the business side of it. Taylor and I come in and help at her side, but we really learn. I think I speak for both of us when I say there aren’t many people we look up to more than Hayley — well,  physically look down [ Laughs]. And it’s not a top-to-bottom structure, it goes across. The three of us are like the tree, but the branches stem outwards along the same principle, including our crew, our tour manager Andrew, Brian, the whole band.

You’ve called the band your “home base” before, which seems fitting to that concept.

HW— For sure. I was thinking about it the other day, on the Fall tour we played this older, slow song in the set from Brand New Eyes called “Misguided Ghosts.” Something happens when you sing a song so many times, you forget what the words even are. But I was able to zoom out one night, and had a moment where I actually listened to what I was singing. In the song it says, "I'm going away for a while, I'll be back. Don't try and follow me… I need to go find something that may not necessarily feel safe, but I just need to find something new." I heard in the song this familiar sense of running away from the band, something Zac experienced when he made that decision to physically remove himself from Paramore to deal with things in his own life and family, aside from the band. For me, at that time in my life, I was in a relationship that wasn't smart for me. I was swept up in that world for ten years, and I very much moved away emotionally from Taylor and Zac as friends. For a lot of reasons, we all just were at each other's throats, and we weren't being good friends to each other. But as that relationship I was in was falling apart, I found myself inching back towards the band, around the same time Zac was rejoining Paramore. I still feel so thankful that’s the kind of friends that they are — people that give second chances. There's space for grace in the relationships we have. We all have had moments where we really weren't ourselves. We really weren't making healthy decisions, and it was affecting our friendships, but it's so great when you have a legitimate chosen family.

ZF— We didn't know how to give each other space to grow when we were kids. And we’re absolute family — you know, this is our fucking garage band! And we grew up in it, together, in front of people. 

TAYLOR wears TOP by BODE, JACKET by HELMUT LANG, PANTS by DOLCE & GABBANA, SHOES by GUCCI

HAYLEY wears TOP, JUMPSUIT TIGHTS, BOOTS by RAF SIMONS, SUNGLASSES by GUCCI

ZACH wears SHIRT, JACKET, PANTS by GUCCI, SHOES by SEBAGO, SUNGLASSES by MR. SATURDAY, HAT is TALENT’S OWN

Chosen family or blood, home or “home base,” it’s all going to be inherently tumultuous and emotional. It’s just how you handle the hurdles that defines the environment. But over the years, it seems like you guys have done the work, coming back together as a trio. You can actually hear it in the music over the last two albums. There’s more vulnerability and more honesty. Maybe that has to do with the balance you mention between you three as well?

HW— I've definitely felt as the only woman in the band, growing up it just felt like things that I did, or any missteps, stood out a lot. And when we were younger, the road was crazy and we didn't really have a foundation of trust — so becoming a successful band felt like just too much at times. Now that there's a foundation that's there, and we're adults, we're choosing to invest in these relationships over and over again, and create space to make a misstep or say the wrong thing and be like, "Oh no, that's not what I mean. I'm just figuring this out." That space wasn't there before. And when somebody sees who you really are and doesn't turn away from that, it liberates you to new things.

It seems like a lot of groups or artists who got famous young, who didn't get to a place where they could be honest and vulnerable in their art, are now just publicly talking about how painful it all is.

HW— Honestly. I was telling Zane Lowe shit that we've gone through, and things that maybe we were going through in the moment — and he just goes, "Oh my God, y'all are worse than Fleetwood Mac." That group, literally, was a group of friends that were consistently trying to figure it out and failing in front of the world. Both the romantic and the platonic relationships, and it's all hard. Band aside, it's just tough to be close with people.

But that's where the honesty in the actual music comes in, it flips the script. That narrative people might spin that’s all fantasy and drama gets shut down.

HW— Totally. That's a great point. It’s about having a vulnerable moment, grounding yourself, and knowing why you do something. What's your reason for doing it? What's your “why”? And nothing will mess up your perspective of “why” more than success. Success can be such a poisonous additive to this amazing thing that you're creating, and it also can be the kind of opportunity that allows you to keep doing it, so the balance of that is really tricky.

TAYLOR wears TOP by MR. SATURDAY, SHIRT by KEISER CLARK, SHOES by DR. MARTENS

HAYLEY wears DRESS, JACKET by DION LEE, SHOES by DR. MARTENS

ZACH  wears SHIRT, JACKET, PANTS by GUCCI, SHOES by SEBAGO, HAT is TALENT’S OWN

When did you realize that it had a downside?

HW— Literally, maybe right before Riot even came out, we had done so much press that in 2007, leading up to that summer, we were on work to work, Zac's family were having struggles, and we were all just tired. We were flying, we were leaving Warped Tour to fly to New York to play promo shows and do release things, and then come back. It was weird because it was all these things that we never would've imagined would happen to us, and we couldn't really enjoy it. It felt phony. It's like you want to be so excited about this thing that everyone who's in a band has dreamt of at some point, and you see it right in front of you, and you don't even know how to accept it because you're just like, "Well, I don't know if it feels right to celebrate 'cause we're not actually doing well."

Speaking of success, to get to a point where you’re successful and change direction. Follow your gut, rather than the fine lines of your genre, is the real challenge. For the new album, while you still are very much Paramore, there’s felt like a real shift — across the aesthetics, the sound, the lyrics, and the subject matter. It’s a risk.

Taylor York— It's so crazy 'cause I have so many feelings about this. I know exactly in my body what I want to say, but it's so hard to put it into words, because I think for us, we hardly ever finish a song that we don't really believe in. It's been very rare that we even have B sides. And while it's not a necessity, it's like we also don't know another way to operate. If it's not organic or a new feeling, it's like we can't just fuck with it. I think sometimes, fans or people think that we're doing something on purpose to take a turn and be different. We're never trying to rebrand ourselves. It's literally just what comes out. That's just what it is. And then, we just hope people are down to go on the ride. For After Laughter, we weren't like, "Hey, let's make something that's less aggressive and more poppy and cleaner." That was never the intention. It just happened, and we're really fortunate that so many people have gone on that ride with us.

HW— We're so thankful, 'cause we don't have the benefit of being outside of the bubble enough to get the perspective of what it feels like to experience the band pivoting. We're in the bubble of it all, and it's moving, and we're moving with it. I'm glad that this album has the rougher, funkier shit, and that there's also some teeth to it. We're still learning how to add all the colors that we've acquired to our palette, and trying to figure out how to use all of it at one time. I don't think you can do it on purpose, which is frustrating. It has to happen.

TAYLOR wears TOP by BODE, JACKET by HELMUT LANG, PANTS by DOLCE & GABBANA, SHOES by GUCCI

HAYLEY wears TOP, JUMPSUIT TIGHTS, BOOTS by RAF SIMONS, SUNGLASSES by GUCCI

Well, a lot of people try, and it can be to their detriment. It sounds like you created something you all care about that represents who you’ve become over the years, rather than who you were, and you’ve let that unfold naturally. I say that’s rare. It also seems like you’re digging deeper into where the world’s gone, as well. I don’t think we’ve ever heard politics so heavily referenced in your work before. 

HW— Right. We all went through the pandemic together as a people, as a world. It's a horrible thing to happen, but I think it was a great equalizer, something that finally put everyone on the same playing field. My experience was very much realizing "we're home." We're not on tour being treated with a very specific type of respect and adoration. We're just being family, being people and citizens, and I think we, as adults, really needed that. Not only just to have a break from the machine, but to have a sobering moment about the world that we live in and the place that we're from, and our part in making it worth staying alive for. It's a shitty world, man. But I think that while people are the thing that makes it hell, we're also the only hope of it turning around at any point — so that to me is what the break was about, and how the break influenced what we've made. There's just no escaping having to think about things from multiple vantage points now. You’ve got to think about why you're doing shit, and who you're doing it for — and that, to me, gives us a lot more purpose than we had before.

TY— We've never been entirely political, but I think over the last… I don't know, since Trump got elected, and especially into the pandemic, most of our country became invested in politics. We’d always had this "No, we don't want to be a political band" stance, but that started to shift. At first, when we heard some of Hayley’s political lyrics for This is Why, we were a little like,"Oh whoa, so we're doing this now?" It was a bit uncomfortable, because it was new. We were talking about politics all the time with friends, so it's not like we weren't passionate about that, but it was a new thing for that to be outward facing. Overall, it’s been a really great, beautiful thing, and a growing process for us to experience it all. And anytime we get to experience new things together, especially as a band, it's really special. Not only are we passionate about this album as a piece of art, but whether people agree with it or not, we hope that it sparks thought and people are challenged, whether they feel seen or it makes them angry. Whatever it is, it's here to elicit emotion, and that's such a cool thing to be a part of.

ZF— Because of how we were brought up, our whole lives we were taught to fake that you're a perfect person. If you had any views, you’d rather fake it to avoid being shamed. For myself, I learned from family and growing up in church that even if you're feeling like shit, you're supposed to be like, "I'm good. How are you?" It's not okay to just say, "I'm kind of fucked up right now, having a bad month." Being a regular human wasn't accepted. We are taught that. So, I think that's a huge thing that we're unlearning, and we’ve found the best vehicle to do that through music.

TY— We always want to be an inclusive place. We want to create an inclusive environment, and I think that going along with that, there's this fear that if you say anything that's not completely universal – and I don't know if that even exists anymore – all of a sudden, you're alienating people, you're offending people, and then to Zac's point, you feel like you're doing something wrong as a person. It shouldn't be like that, and I think to know that not only is that okay, but it's an indication that you're actually saying something here.

ZF— It’s about living an authentic life. Even if people don't verbally, outwardly express their opinions, we all have them. But I think to do that on this platform, it definitely, I think, felt riskier to us at first. But now, it feels really freeing.

HW— Everyone has what they really feel, and it's important to speak on those things. But at the same time, you just don't know what you're going to get back after you do that. I got the most vocal during the pandemic, especially after George Floyd got murdered, and the way a majority of the country responded in such an almost apathetic way. I just got so angry about that, and I kind of stopped giving a shit if people didn't like what I felt about certain things, and that's on a good day. 

TAYLOR wears TOP by MR. SATURDAY, SHIRT by KEISER CLARK, SHOES by DR. MARTENS

HAYLEY wears DRESS, JACKET by DION LEE, SHOES by DR. MARTENS

ZACH  wears SHIRT, JACKET, PANTS by GUCCI, SHOES by SEBAGO, HAT is TALENT’S OWN

So, you guys doing an album like this is controlling your narrative. You're saying what you want to say, and people are going to have opinions. Whether they're angry or supportive, you have said your piece. Whatever gossip bullshit gets leaked out there about Paramore, hopefully this will bring some more important things up on the internet. That feels important.

HW— You can't make them feel it the way that you've put the feeling and the intention into it. And what I’ve realized more and more as we do this, is that we're lucky that anyone understands it at all.

If you guys had a mission statement as a band, what would it be?

HW— Oh, geez. Remember when we talked about that when we were kids? We talked about it too long ago… But I’ll try to sum it up, for today: We're trying to take better care of ourselves and each other, and we're also trying to figure out how to use the energy and momentum that we have to make it all mean something more than just a paycheck or an award. We love bringing people in and creating a safe, joyful environment, like a shelter, almost. That's what Paramore has been for us throughout a lot of our lives, even though it's caused pain for us, too. And I think now that we are getting a better handle on it, our goal is to make it more than just about us, because that's going to leave us feeling super empty the day anyways.

TY— Our fans are the ones that have really created this unbelievable community, this inclusive and beautiful place. For us, it’s about how do we keep fostering that, letting people have a moment where they can be present and let go. Where they feel unified, without having any sort of tie to a religion or anything, just for it to be whatever people need it to be right now. It's never been about us personally giving people what they need. It's that somehow our art finds its way to people, and it happens without us even being there. Such a beautiful thing.