TAO LIN—Yeah. Yeah.
BRAD PHILLIPS—It’s shocking to me.
TAO LIN—Yeah, he has so many people from the military and so many politicians and some astronauts who support him. And then there is some stuff like this that people can talk about. Like, I feel like MKUltra—everyone accepts that.
BRAD PHILLIPS—Yeah.
TAO LIN—And I remember I recommended that book Surviving Evil to you, and you read it, which I was grateful for.
BRAD PHILLIPS—I was grateful you recommended it. It was so disheartening. Yeah, I mean, if everything ends up being revealed in time, it’s unfortunate that we look like nut jobs believing it, maybe a decade earlier than it becomes acceptably believable.
TAO LIN—Hmm, yeah.
BRAD PHILLIPS—The MKUltra program is pretty well known, and then in Surviving Evil, I was horrified by how horrible, how horrifying some of the things were. I was shocked.
TAO LIN—Yeah, it was disturbing. And didn’t you—you gave me Karen Wetmore’s contact info or something.
BRAD PHILLIPS—Yeah, and there was two little clips on YouTube of her that vanished, and one of them was two guys had found her—and I’ll try to say it right—they took her outside and she found that she could shoot a rifle with like marksman ability, but to her mind had, she had never held a rifle before in her life. And in the video description, they said that they had been talking to her and they had posted these two videos, and that she had suddenly just kind of gone silent and not replied to them, and then a couple months later, the videos were just gone off of YouTube.
TAO LIN—Yeah, she’s pretty old. I wonder...
BRAD PHILLIPS—Yeah, she’s in her seventies. It’s sort of hard to understand since there are like astronauts and generals and people in the military, why this stuff isn’t more well-known.
TAO LIN—Yeah.
BRAD PHILLIPS—Do you think that most people wouldn’t want to know that this was real? Or potentially real?
TAO LIN—Yeah, I feel like... Yeah, because I feel like if you just think all this stuff is a ridiculous conspiracy theory, your view of the world might be like, the same as like, Joe Biden or something, where you just think like, the world, as long as Trump is gone, that things are pretty good. This disturbs that big time, like, things are so dysfunctional potentially. So, I feel like a lot of people would be reluctant to start thinking things like Nazis are still around.
BRAD PHILLIPS—I’d rather know what’s really going on I think.
TAO LIN—Yeah, I would.
BRAD PHILLIPS—It reminds me when the first Gulf War happened. I was, you know, an obnoxious, young person. And I would tell my mother, ‘George Bush was bad,’ you know? Or after 9/11, I would say, ‘George Bush is bad.’ And then years later, when things came out about Abu Ghraib prison, my mom would say, ‘George Bush is bad.’ It’s kind of like that, you know, like I believe this stuff is possible now, but I look like a lunatic for believing it. But maybe later everyone will think, ‘Yeah, it’s possible. There are aliens.’
TAO LIN—Yeah.
BRAD PHILLIPS—Why do you think you’re interested? I’m more interested in why we’re interested, and what is it you think makes you want to believe this stuff or think about it?
TAO LIN—Part of it is just wanting to get people to think that the mainstream media and news isn’t accurate.
BRAD PHILLIPS—Yeah. There’s nothing bigger, there’s nothing larger? Like, do you feel life on earth is dissatisfying and you want there to be a broader place?
TAO LIN—Yeah, yeah. It’s that, too. It just seems learning about remote viewing and all this, life just seems more magical.