It's Women's History Month, so we're showing some serious love from home to our favorite female artists. Pass the time at your casa, and share it with your cat, your plant and your friends on FaceTime.
Nuna is refreshingly thoughtful and introspective, and more than happy to indulge my philosophical trains of thought; the arrival of our order of mozzarella sticks is enough to trigger an existential train of thought about culinary arts as the most primal form of human creativity. We discussed returning to the root of her love for music, staying true to herself, and riding the wave of the new digital revolution. Read our conversation below.
AUDREY wears JACKET and SKIRT by DION LEE, SHORTS by 7 DAYS ACTIVE, SHOES by ALEXANDER WANG, JEWELRY by CHRIS HABANA
Brook Aster— What was your early childhood like in New Jersey?
Audrey Nuna— It was very peaceful. Definitely a bit confusing, in terms of just not having a community around, but still I think all of it just played into finding myself on the creative side and filling a lot of my time with making things at a young age, and that was great.
What was the early conversation with your parents like, telling them that you wanted to pursue music?
I don't think it was ever even a conversation. I expressed interest in music and singing from a really young age, so it was kind of just known, like, she loves that. They pushed me in the route that they knew, which was a very academic form of music; joining choirs, doing musicals, that sort of thing. They were really supportive from the beginning, and they saw this thing in me that they probably in a way recognized in themselves, but they didn't get the chance to express it that much. They had to learn how to survive in a completely new country, and that takes up a lot of your time, a lot of your energy. They're both creative and they saw that in me, and they really wanted to give me the opportunity to build it more than they got the chance to.
Even if you grew up in this country, having the self-possession to pursue art is already hard. I always wonder what my mom would have been if she was born a generation later, and was born here.
You just gave me chills, because I just met with my friend who's also first generation, she's Filipino. We were just talking about this, about how much our moms have given to us and how much they had to give up in order to allow us to do what we want to do. And I started crying at lunch. I was like, why is this hitting me so hard?
Out of all the people that I've never met, there’s no one who I care about more than the version of my mom before she had me. Like, If you showed up somehow in today’s moment, I would do anything for you.
It's actually wild because I had a show yesterday at Ludlow House, and my mom was there, so I brought her with me to the office [issue 21 release] party after. My mom loves music. My love for music, I think, or at least rhythmic music, 100% comes from my mom's side, and my love for melody comes from my dad. We had this moment when Memphy was playing, where I got to see a version of her that I felt like we were the same age for a second. We were dancing to this trance-like music together and it was just so genuine. I just felt really grateful to be able to share that with her.
Would you expect them to be into the kind of music that you make if you weren’t their kid?
[Laughs] To be honest, probably not. Maybe those certain songs my mom loves the R&B side and the dancier side of things, and then my dad loves just like the more classic melodic side of things. I think there's pockets of my sonic world that they would appreciate. But it all comes from them honestly.
AUDREY wears DRESS by ACNE STUDIOS, BOOTS by SACAI, JEWELRY by MARTINE ALI
On set, we talked about how you took a year off from NYU to focus on your music after freshman year, which turned into dropping out and releasing your first album. What was that first year like?
I was just rolling with the punches. My first year was awesome. I had such a good time moving into the city, moving into a place with so much more energy than I grew up with. For basically the first 18 years of my life, I was in this crucible of pressure, and a lot of creative suppression, and doing things out of boredom, like I wanted to do them but I wasn’t fully expressing myself. I think that when I hit NYU, I had so much potential energy. There was a moment where it shifted to kinetic energy.
What was the specific catalyst for you to take the next step and leave school to focus on music?
It was something I thought about for a long time, for the whole year basically. I was juggling school work and music, and going to the studio every night till 4am and then trying to make it to my 3pm music history class or whatever. It just came to a point of curiosity: what if I just put all my energy towards one or the other?
And also, affording school was really a big factor of why I wanted to stop, because at that point, I had been able to get some academic scholarships and financial aid, but then starting my next year, I would have had to go into student debt and affect my future in order to continue school.
All the signs pointed me to take the leap and just try. So I did. I didn't really have that much of a plan. I moved to a town right outside of New York, called Fort Lee. It's like the K-town of Jersey. I stayed there for a year, wrote my ass off, recorded my ass off, just worked on my craft for a year. And then, I don't know, things kind of just fell into place somehow from there.
Was it scary during that first period of time?
It's so funny, because people always ask me that, and my genuine answer is no.
I don't know why, but I think I'm more scared now than I was then. I think as you get older, your whole goal is to be your younger self. There was this fearlessness and it came from not being so scarred. Then you get hurt, and then you start to lose that fearlessness and you're always trying to replicate it. I realize that that's what getting older is: how close can you stay to that 19 year old self, who genuinely just wasn't scared?
Totally. It’s easy to think that what you're accumulating is wisdom, but sometimes what you're actually accumulating is sensitivity, or pain.
Maybe even a little bit of bitterness, at least speaking from my experience. How could you not get a little jaded out here? It's pretty wild out in the world.
I really idolize my younger self, I think for good reason. I think we all should. Even with the creative process of making this project, I considered it as a pilgrimage to try to do what I did in that gap year. Not necessarily in the same place, or with the same people or the same conditions, but the energy of it; I was like, what the fuck was I on? and just constantly trying to get to that place.
AUDREY wears JACKET and HOODIE by BALENCIAGA, SHORTS by 7 DAYS ACTIVE, BOOTS by R13
I was watching the videos for “Cellulite” and “Joke’s On Me,” and there's so much floating, flying, and images of you being untethered. How does that factor into where you've been emotionally and artistically? Do you feel like you’re being set free?
I appreciate that question. The huge theme of the project is this idea that you cannot separate the good and bad. The more you go into this journey of living as a human being, the good and the bad become so intertwined. I really wanted to express that ambiguity.
I don't want to lie and say that I'm fully there, but I think I'm the closest that I've been in a while to returning to that place of kinetic energy. This whole project was basically just a diary and a journal of the struggle to get there. It’s a very ironic, counterintuitive thing; how do I return to a state that seemed so easy at some point? It was a mind fuck. I think that kind of came across through a lot of the visuals because I myself was a little confused about where I was going. Where am I headed? So there was a lot of unfocused kinetic energy.
As you can tell, I'm a sucker for a simile, I'm a sucker for a metaphor, and especially in a visual. I'm curious about the crash at the end of the video. Do you feel like you've had a crash in the last couple of years, or a moment where you realize you've reached the end of the road and need to rethink things?
I definitely think so. For the first project, there was this feeling of newness and unfamiliarity in a very romantic way. I think the second project had a lot of harsh realizations, a lot of the darker side of adolescence and the things that you are rudely awakened to as you enter your mid-20’s. A lot of things came to an end. A lot of working relationships, a lot of friendships. My trust in human connection was definitely challenged.
Moving to LA was very much the end of the romantic era and it was like the start of something different. It felt like I was navigating through a darker side of town or something. Right now specifically, I feel a lot of new beginnings in the air, but this project was me processing a lot of pain. I would say hopefully the next one is starting the cycle over again. I think that both parts are important.
What is your relationship to LA like?
I would say my beef with LA in the first place was that I moved to a place where the results are so important. People tend to do things there.with just one motive, and I get it, because you're in a center of commerce. People tend to do things to get results.
I came up making music at my friend's house for fun with his wife cooking us tacos, and it somehow turned into my career. And then all of a sudden, I'm in this place where the career is everything. For a moment, I think that I forgot that for me, it's not just a job. It really is a passion and almost a hobby in a way. Trying to find balance in a place like LA was a really big challenge for me. I found that keeping it about the creativity was the one size fits all solution.
For example, the shoot that we did a few days ago [for office]. That was just a fun time. That was me making some things with really cool people for a day, and calling it press. I wanted to try something new, to explore a different side of this visual art form, so I did that. I have no idea what these photos are going to look like. And that's so exciting for me. That's what makes it.
I think in LA I tried to chase certain things for a bit and then it was not leading me anywhere. For a moment, I was like, why do I even do this shit? As soon as I found the fun in it again, and then started setting the boundary of, if it’s not fun I won’t do it, everything just started to click way more.
It's so different when you work with a group of people that are on that frequency. It makes a huge difference. I think that that exists a lot more in New York than in LA. I will say it's rare. You can find pockets of it in LA, but it's almost like a way of life in New York. It’s embedded into the culture.
AUDREY wears DRESS by ISSEY MIYAKE, EARRINGS by MARTINE ALI
Would you move back to NYC?
I would definitely move back. For the rest of the year, I'm going to be coming back and forth a lot, throughout the summer. I'm putting out a project this year.
I always used to say, “I never want to see a single palm tree in a music video!” which I still stand by. There's just something about the energy of New York, and my early days of shooting basically illegal music videos, without permits, that has informed so much of how I see creativity.
Another thing that really helps me — this is crazy, I didn't ever think I would say this — is the dwindling of resources in the music industry. All the budgets are getting smaller, everything is getting just more tough, everything's so saturated. There was a point of frustration, but then I started making shit with my friends who were just down because they love to make things even though it wasn't going to pay their normal rate. Everything just started to shift, the energy was just different. Regardless of the financial resources I may have going into the future, I just want to preserve that, whatever that is. You can't mimic it. You just have to feel it and that's what's so difficult about it somehow.
I’m curious about how you navigate the emphasis that can be placed on your racial identity in the conversation about your music. Is that something you think about, or that bothers you?
I think a lot of times I’ve found myself struggling to answer the question, because it's a very double edged sword. Sometimes people ask certain questions, like, how can we see your Asian American heritage in your music? And I’m like, I don't know. I just make music, and I'm Korean, and I grew up eating kimchi and I grew up hearing classic Korean vocalists, and all those things fed into who I am and in some way or another probably make their way into my work.
I understand the desire to empower, but I think for me it's all about agency. Who's curating it? Is it an Asian American person? Is it coming from a real place, not a quota? That’s what I pay attention to when it comes to how I view certain articles or certain initiatives. I appreciate the platform at the same time.
My biggest commitment is to being honest, to being myself. I genuinely think that my culture and everything about my heritage and how I came up will make their way to the surface. It doesn't have to be forced, it can be completely organic the same way that it's organic for any other artist. I understand that, because it's new, we're going to live through that time frame where the headline is always going to read “Korean American” or “Asian American.” But that’s just a transitory period. I think it's unavoidable in a way. I would love to just do my best work, you know, and be my true self.
That makes a lot of sense. How does that factor into the way you navigate your position as an non-Black artist who is making music that can be categorized as hip hop and R&B?
One thing that is for sure important to me is knowing and understanding the influence, and being a student of the craft and of the game. I have to be very aware where the music comes from, and that there is credit and respect due always.
Obviously, it really is just about being my truest itself, doing what I love but also giving credit and respect. Being a part of the community, not just like taking from it. Being myself, making sure I’m never putting on a costume.
Curiosity is important, wondering about your influences and digging into them. We need as a culture to head in that direction. I feel like the blending of culture is actually really essential to our human race not only surviving but also becoming better.
I think that gets at a bigger issue of globalization, and the way that cultural borders don’t really exist anymore because of the internet.
Obviously, it's a romantic thought, because so much of the world is still really, really, really fucked up. But I do think that we are moving towards a freer world. People have more access to information, and that's where it always starts. This is the confusing stage, but I think it is ultimately a good thing.
I don't want to be a dinosaur and I don't want to be resistant. And not only that, but I have no fucking say in this. This is evolution. We're just riding the wave of evolution. It's pretty cool that we are both alive in this time experiencing this. I think it’s going to be crazier than when the internet started, with the AI shit. Our world just went from black and white to technicolor all over again, and I don't think we're ready.
Things are going to look a lot different in a few years. It’s crazy to have had our brains develop amidst all of this.
I mean, talk about us — I don't even know about this generation below us. What the fuck are they about to be? They're about to be some bionic humans. My producer's kids, they're eight and ten years old. They know how to make beats, they know how to animate things, they know how to do every skill possible because they just look it up on YouTube. So much of our shit is going to become obsolete. It's crazy to think about. It's insane.
AUDREY wears FULL LOOK by SACAI, SHOES by DION LEE, EARRINGS by ALEXIS BITTAR, RINGS by CHRIS HABANA, GLASSES by GENTLE MONSTER
GIRL IN RED wears TOP by PAUL SMITH, SHOES by P448, and her own jeans
Did you finish Baby Reindeer?
I did, it’s so good — wooof.
I mean, you were really committing to those accents when you were playing [at Radio City]...
I know; I’ve been committing ever since [Ulven talking in a scarily accurate Scottish accent]. I saw some people in the front row, and they were like, what the fuck is she doing?
Kudos to you for having a viral infection and playing that show. It was incredible to watch. You were running in the crowd….
I feel that any day, no matter how shitty, or tired, or sick I feel. I’m like, these people fucking came here from somewhere, and they deserve the absolute best. You gotta give everything.
How does it feel to have this album out for almost a month? And then this tour? In your day-to-day life, how does that feel to you?
I’ve been on tour, so every day that passes, more people learn the [new] lyrics. The coolest part has been touring and leveling up my game with touring and having the best nights. Honestly, it’s been a dream.
I even saw your show in Boston…..you’re not an ordained minister, right?
No, but it’s a joke since a lot of people have been getting engaged at my shows, and now it’s a joke that I’m like a part-time priest now. But maybe one day that’ll be my side hustle, we’ll see.
What was the writing process for this album?
It was a long one. I was in the studio with Matias Téllez. He is my best friend and co-producer — we made the record together. So, I guess the process was just going in and out every day; how can I push myself? And how can I push the music further and make something that really excites me? We did that mostly in Bergen but also a little bit in New York, Paris, and London.
This album is a bit happier than your last album. It’s interesting since there’s moments of such swagger, and almost ego, and confidence. But then there’s moments like [in songs] "Pick Me", "Phantom Pain", and "Ugly Side" that really deal with self-doubt. In this process, did you need one to balance out the other?
That’s kinda where I was mentally. While making this whole album, mentally I was feeling myself on top of the world, but then I was doubting myself so much the whole process. It kinda shines through in the music. I realized I’m just all over the place when it comes to self-esteem. I wanted to play around with that contrast.
What makes you doubt yourself?
I think any artist, anyone who makes things, doubts themselves. I don’t think it’s like a rare thing. Even if you’re not an artist and not making things, everyone doubts themselves. It’s the fear of making something bad, the fear of failure.
Well, even in your song ******, you talk about critics and reviews, and that’s obviously a part of this process once you release it out into the world. How do you make sure that the music business and the politics don’t affect your writing process? How do you let that not dilute your art?
In the studio, you don’t give a shit about those things. You do what interests you and what you think is fun. At the end of the day, if you’re not making things for yourself — why are you doing it?
I remember with my first album, a lot of people were like, Aw, she’s not making this sort of music anymore, like awww, and now with this album, people will be like, it’s not like that album. You just need to value your intuition more than anyone else’s.
When you opened for Taylor Swift, how did that change how you go about headlining your own tour?
On this tour, I’ve been leveling up like crazy. With my energy and taking the tour very seriously, the set design is a lot more fun and playful. What I took away from her tour is that she works so hard. She is such a worker bee. I saw eight shows, eight Taylor Swift shows, and they’re so consistent. Everything is perfect all the time. I saw this show eight times, and I never got bored.
Watching you live was like a religious or spiritual experience. Do you feel like you’re tapping into something deeper than yourself when you’re in those adrenaline moments?
Hmmm. I definitely tap into something, and I don’t know what it is. I could have a really bad day, and once I go on stage everything takes a turn for the better. There’s something magical that happens. I feel like I’m a version of myself on stage that’s Marie — it’s who I really am.
Because there’s a lot of people, and a lot going on all the time. Do you ever want to just dissociate and look at a wall? How do you unwind?
I literally am in a bunk right now, in a dark room, plus I can’t see anything since I’m literally staring into the darkness of this bus.
I brought a bunch of books with me on this tour. So my new thing is drawing, writing in my journal, and trying to scroll through books and not my phone.
Who have you been reading lately?
This is going to sound super dorky. I’ve been reading about Swiss typography, so it’s not a fiction book, but it’s about the history of Swiss design and how it has changed the world. I’m in a weird Swiss design era now. I have a bunch of books on grid design systems and typography, World War II and reading about other people’s lives as creators and designers.
I went to this really cute book store in New York and I bought a book about chairs. I’m trying to take a step away from my phone and the endless scrolling that has made my brain so bad. That’s why I’m trying to take it back with my typography era, apparently.
The scrolling brain rot pipeline is a real thing.
I feel that so heavily that my brain is rotting. All my friends feel the same too.
Are you one of those people with an internal monologue in your head when you think? Or are you more visual? Because some people don’t have internal monologues, but I’m assuming you do because you write songs…
I definitely have an internal monologue and it keeps chatting and yapping all the fucking time. I saw a video of some person and they can’t hear their thoughts in their head, and I was like they are probably living their best life.
How does it feel to be gay code for something that’s all encapsulating?
It’s insane. It’s a once-in-a-lifetime rarity and super special. Especially on this tour, I’ve been getting so many letters. People will hand letters to security and I’ve been reading them backstage and then I send them a message like Hey! I got your letter. You’re amazing.
It’s so rare. I’m so grateful that my coming-out experience and coming to terms with my sexuality, which was really hard for me, has impacted so many people’s lives. It’s beyond. To say that’s nothing, that would be brain rot completely.
Talking about this idea of gay music or gay pop….
You’re talking about JoJo Siwa [laughs]. Personally, I don’t know shit about genres like that, but I do know some of the best music I’ve ever heard is made by queer artists.
On this album, what was the easiest song to write? And what was the hardest?
They all were really hard to write, but "I’m back" is probably the easiest one.
You have that great line about taking a shower in that song.
It’s a funny line, tongue and cheek. I was so depressed I didn’t shower for two weeks in my bed. Not now, obviously, but then sort of being out of depression and see showering as a win. Like cleaning your room and a shower, that’s a win when you’re depressed.
Back to this idea of really pursuing music…. Have you already started new songs?
I was backstage the other day and I had a musical epiphany. I believe a lot of music and art happens in your subconsciousness and I had this really beautiful idea backstage the other day, I think it was last night. I don’t even fucking know anymore. I don’t even know what day it is.
It’s the rot.
Actually, that's tour life. Being on tour is not like the real world. It’s a fantasy life.
We have to talk about having Sabrina [Carpenter] on one of your songs..
I’m such a Sabrina girl…. I’m a siiiinnnngeerrr [singing that iconic line from Sabrina’s recent hit, Espresso]. I’m such a big fan of her and she was my first ever feature on anything.
When you write lyrics, do you have a notebook or do you use Notes App?
I’m a religious Moleskin user. I’m obsessed with stationary and Moleskin, and it’s all in my Moleskin and I have a whole archival system from 2019 until now with the exact same notebook from Moleskin. And I am not sponsored.
Where did you grow up?
I moved back to New York when I was 17. Feel like the bulk of my growing up was done here for sure.
I'm assuming that a lot of the music you listened to growing up is aligned with the music you make now. Who were some of those people?
It's funny cause I actually used to be a scene kid back in the day, I listened to a lot of alternative music: punk, post punk, hardcore etc...bands like Rancid, A Day To Remember, The Distillers. In highschool I loved hip hop coming out of the west coast – Odd Future, Lil B... Going to shows was my shit, and in many ways reminds me of the rave scene. I discovered mad music through the Tony Hawk video games too. But my interest in electronic music definitely came later.
What drew you to releasing this EP now — is it meant to be a summer listen like The Exhilaration?
I actually made Clean Cut at the end of last summer. Lowkey It's a luxury to be able to make a track and then release it immediately, especially as a smaller artist. You wanna maximize the attention your work gets. But at the same time, it always feels like you are releasing past versions of yourself to the world. "Clean Cut" is old to me, but new to you all.
Anyway it's both more and less summery than The Exhilaration, half of the songs were actually produced in the winter. My track with Rubby, "Selfish" definitely gives deep NYC winter moodiness but ironically will drop in August.
Where were you when working on the songs for this project?
Basically I've been in NYC for this whole project. But last summer I spent a lot of time in Berlin and Paris, losing myself, finding myself again type shit. I came back from that trip with all this existential angst... was both super inspired sonically, but like mad uninspired with my vision of myself as an artist. "Clean Cut" kind of emerged from that frustration.
What about “Clean Cut” made it feel right as the first single released from the project?
"Clean Cut" is special because it's like a personal mantra. I wanted to make a break up song but for breaking up with parts of the self that no longer serve you. A sonic reminder to the self. Dance music is so powerful for messages: the repetition and drums kind of take you to a spiritual place. So "Clean Cut" felt like a perfect vehicle to kind of show the world about my evolution as an artist and introduce them to my evolving sound.
What are you most excited about the music you’re making now?
I'm always working toward this personal goal of making fast music chill. "Clean Cut" is def meant to be loud and epic, but at the end of the song it switches to these lush sounding chords — a vision of a brighter future after this epic journey into the self. Dunno... I'm always trying to figure out how to make music that's 150+ bpm be relaxing and vibey – the other songs on this EP were made with that intention in mind and came out really sick. All that to say I'm excited about further honing that intention and sharing it with the world.
Where do you think techno is headed and what do you wish to contribute to that?
I think we're gonna see a return to Producer/MC/artist focused work, DJ's who are producing their own music, live acts being integrated into the rave etc. Feels like we are just on the cusp of this electronic music moment, especially in America. I wanna take that shit all the way to the top. Put people on to a genre of music they don't know about, or didn't know they would be into.
Who listens to Jonah Almost?
Gay guys and baddies for sure. My super fans are all these young gays in Europe/South America haha. But I wanna make music that speaks to everyone! I was speaking with a friend recently who called me a bi-con – I usually try to make my subject matter gender neutral because I want anyone to relate to it. Can be frustrating releasing music as a queer artist or whatever cause you get lumped into that box, but I'm rocking with whoevers fucking with me.
What are some of the backbones of your creative / music-making process?
Spliffs. My Universal Audio interface. The Korg legacy collection. Keyscape. Fabfilter. Oh and insomnia, I don't sleep much, most of my shit is made at like 5am while everyone sleeps.
What are you most obsessed with musically right now, and why?
I'm super inspired by Lone, right now and always. He's my dream collab and one of my biggest sonic inspirations. I just love how dreamy and aquatic his production is. If I could make something half as dreamy as him I'd be happy haha.
Where do you dance?
In my living room mostly. But I'm around the scene. Basement is always fun. My favorite party recently though is that one from Kay Gabriel and Seva Granik, Faggots are Women. Most fun I've had at a rave in so long.
What’s the worst tattoo you’ve seen in Brooklyn?
Haha off the top of my head I dunno... Think I saw a dude with a dick tattoo once. It was like an Elephant's face where his dick was the trunk. That was crazy.
Is there a song you have on repeat?
Where is the sun? By Blue Hawaii.
The video touches on the importance of collaboration in your personal journey as an artist. What was the process of creating this video with a team?
It was super seamless. Leaf and his team were a dream to work with, and everyone on set was so chill and supportive toward the vision. I feel like it's getting harder and harder to find people who are just down to collab and make something cool for the sake of making something cool. It was a group of people who came together to showcase their talents, be it me the artist or the film team. Even the Tarantula handlers Ryan and Juje were so down to just come in and help us make this. I'm super grateful.
How did the video come to fruition? What was it like working with Leaf?
Leaf is so major. He called me up and was like "Yo... would you be down to make an editorial with me?" He's a super talented director so when he started explaining his vision, and I shared my story about "Clean Cut", it was clear that he was tapped in and singular in his approach. The vibe on set was so wholesome and chill, everyone including me was just happy to be there. It's def the most produced video I've done which is really cool. Anyway I was mad grateful he reached out to me, so I came in hot that day to the studio ready to serve.
You mention “earnestness” in the video, which I feel people often associate with corniness. Are you afraid of being perceived a certain way?
Nah I dont give a fuuuuuuuck. Can't let that shit get in the way of putting yourself out there. Some people are gonna rock with you and others won't. It's impossible to be liked by everyone. I spent a lot of time in NYC trying to be liked and at a certain point it just holds you back. For me Jonah Almost has always had an element of performance art, creating a fantasy, a version of myself turned up to 10. What I said in the video about earnestness was in relation to this character building. Clean Cut is about severing ties to this persona that felt outdated, unaligned with who I have evolved into. Earnestness in that context meant being confident in just being myself. I'm just trying to keep this shit fun for me. It's my outlet.
