Kali Uchis: I Always Die When I Wake Up

Sin Miedo is arguably her best work to date. On it, she experiments with her voice and with genre in a way that can only be described as revelatory. It’s ultra-glam and fully Latina, touching on Latin trap, jazz, even Bolero. The album is a sonic feat, one that was made possible by her decision to sing exclusively in Spanish, which, as she tells us, was extremely discouraged by labels and industry professionals who surrounded her.

But the decision paid off. At the time of writing this, her song “Telepatia” has become a global hit. Each day, the song’s streams nearly double, and it currently sits at #3 on the Spotify Global Chart. It happened organically, on TikTok, with no push from the label, no big-name feature on the track, and no music video. She just won a grammy for her feature on Kaytranada’s song “10%.” It feels as if the underground star has reached a turning point.

To talk about it all, we linked Kali up with her bestie, Omar Apollo, the 23-year-old R&B heartthrob whose dance moves and similar Latino upbringing have made him one of music’s brightest rising stars. Omar and Kali discuss demons, sleep paralysis and Latinx music supremacy.

KALI UCHIS—What's up?

OMAR APOLLO—Nothing, honestly. I just spilt all this rice on the floor.

KU—Good stuff.

OA—Why you being so funny?

KU—What you want me to say? Oh my god, do you want me to come over and clean it?

OA—Are you nervous?

KU—No, I just...

OA—You sound nervous.

KU—No, I'm just ready to take a shower.

OA—Yeah. I just got put together. I'm waiting outside for my car. I ran over a piece of glass and I'm just waiting for them to put the new tire on so I can go get some food.

KU—I hate that.

OA—Let's talk about “Telepatía,” girl. What's going on? What’s happening?

KU—I don't know what's happening, but something's going on out there. Yeah, something's really happening. There's a shift. There's been a shift. It's funny because before I dropped the album, I said, ‘Todo lo que me a quitado la vida me lo va a duplicar.’ And I was thinking this morning, that's what this is. This is karma.

OA—Karma?!

KU—Yeah. It’s good karma.

OA—Obsessed with that.

KU—Yeah, I swear to god. Even in the beginning of the album, that part where I'm like, “¿Y tú, que pensaste? Que yo me iba a echar a morir?” I feel like this is just Sin Miedo’s revenge body. She's just coming for everything that she deserves. Even though I made it, honestly, out of love, more than anything at all, and because I really wanted to, I also think that being more intentional with how I made music also played a big part in it—of actually focusing on what I wanted to put out into the world, energetically.

OA—That's cool. Do you think that whatever you write, it's like you putting out that energy into the world and then receiving it back?

KU—Yes. Like “Telepatia,” it's not just a love song. I wanted it to lift people up, and to see it being able to lift people up, and for them to be spreading my feeling this way is just amazing. I feel like every song has a different...you express yourself in different ways. But that's why that one is special. What's even more special about it is there's no feature. So we're really breaking barriers for how people look at Latin women, what we're able to do with no feature and with no support. This is a song that got no push.

OA—I saw that you're the only Latina woman up there right now, which is crazy.

KU—Yeah. No push.

OA—No features.

KU—A lot of people didn't want me to make this album because they felt like it wasn't going to have commercial success.

OA—I hate that kind of pressure. I feel like a lot of people have told me that, but a lot of my fans are Latino. So it's like, huh? What are you talking about?

KU—I think for a lot of artists, we started out just making stuff that is authentic to us, and then the lines can get very blurry and it can get very confusing when you have a lot of people around you putting pressure on commercial success. Something that I've tried to maintain is that balance of remembering not only where I came from, but why I started in the first place. And I started because it's fun. I love expressing myself. I love creating projects, not just one song. Regardless of if the song blows up or happens to become a hit magically or whatever. A hit would never make me—I’ve made a hit. When you have a career, it’s not just one song.

OA—That's funny, that people would tell you not to make this album because the first song I heard from you was actually “Sabor A Mí.” You've been doing that shit.

KU—Spanish has always been something that's part of my brand. And this is something that I didn't even realize, but when I got signed, it was actually in my contract that only music in English would count towards an album.

OA—No way.

KU—Yes. And before I put this album out, my lawyer had to fight to change that in order for this to come out as an album. But when I first signed, I signed in the UK, just because I really needed money to make Isolation, and to live in general. I think, over there especially, there's not as big of a Latin community, so it's very hard for them to understand. They're like, ‘That's not lucrative.’ Like, the Latin industry is not lucrative. You're moving backwards. People in the Latin space are trying to learn how to make music in English so they can break out in the Anglo community. They’re like, ‘Shouldn't you just make music in English?’ and I'm like, ‘This is part of who I am. This is part of my culture.’ Something that's also very important is things have to feel authentic or else they just don't translate. Because there's a lot of people who are trying to make Spanish music now, because it's—

OA—It's popping.

KU—Yeah, it's definitely becoming more popular. So people are trying to do that, but it shows. It shows when it's not natural to somebody.

OA—That's something I've noticed in your music, too. We've talked about it before. The skill level that you're writing in Spanish is the same as in English. I've told you many times, I love the way you write in Spanish. I think it's beautiful, all the words you say. That's why the people who are just trying to hop on or whatever, it never really works out. If I write in Spanish, I gotta make sure it's good, you know? I'm from Indiana. There were Latinos, but you know, I don't even live with my mom no more, so I don’t even talk to them in Spanish anymore. But I'm trying to get better. Just practice.

KU—Yeah. I think because I learned to read and write Spanish before English and I went to school when I was really little in Colombia, it’s so deeply rooted in me that even if I'm not speaking Spanish for a long time, when I start again, it kinda just comes back. But if you just start practicing a little more, a lot of things will come back to you that you don't even realize are there already, since you've been speaking it since you were little. I think just the idea in general of artists that were raised bilingual was always something that was very niche—I was always told that I was never going to be a commercially successful artist. I was told that I was always going to be an artist who had a niche fanbase and was like, you know, a cool thing, but that could never be lucrative enough for anyone to want to spend real money on my projects. That can be discouraging for artists of course, because it takes money to make art. It takes money to make music videos. So, I think a lot of people have been discouraged from embracing their heritage or from embracing bilingual music or music in Spanish if they can speak English. That's why it's special for me. Obviously I'm very proud that it's doing what it's doing, but more than anything, I'm proud that it's kind of a testament to other Latinas, in general—that it's something we can do and we don't need to rely on the support of anyone else to be able to do it.

OA—Definitely. I think it's super important that people know that it ain't no features. It is Latina women carrying shit right now. And the music is amazing. Some people are just more of like, a personality. But the fact is that, you know, we got everything here. She's giving everything, she's giving us music. She's giving us looks. It's great.

KU—Like I said, when we start, we're just expressing ourselves. And then when you become more conscious of the fact that you're like, actually representing different communities, whether it be the Black, or LGBTQ community, or whatever community it is that you're representing, it's like, you become a lot more conscious of the fact that you want to be a good representation, you know? So, I think all of that plays a part in just growing up. Sometimes it's so weird to grow up in public. But at the same time, you have a whole generation of people that have basically been on this journey with you, and have seen you grow up, and seen you make mistakes, and seen you go through different eras and go through different phases... I don't know. That, in a way, does make it so much more special. I definitely wouldn't trade the journey for anything else.

OA—I feel like they also really notice the progression of your music and just like, you and your art, and just as a person. Because I mean, shit, when I first started out, I was not dressing. I didn't have any money, so it was just whatever I got at the thrift shop, doing my shows like that, and for 200 people. And then having all these crazy ass fits like, what? Two years later. It’s nice to have that progression, because then you go back and listen to your old shit and you're like, you know, it's still fire, but it's just different.

KU—No, I feel like when I started, I definitely, later on, was embarrassed by all those—

OA—You were embarrassed?

KU—Yeah, by certain things, because you're like, ‘Oh wow, this sounds horrible.’ I didn't know how to sing when I was first starting to make music at all. You know, I was doing DIY guerrilla style videos in the streets of Colombia, just with my brother and my cousins. Sometimes you see other artists that, as soon as they come out, they have dancers and they have a budget for their shows, and they have these huge music video productions for their first music videos ever. And it's a little bit like, damn. It kind of makes you wonder how things would have been if you were able to have that same support from the beginning. What you don't realize is that the journey is literally the most important part of all of it. It's not important to have overnight success. It's not important to just all of a sudden go from here to here.

OA—Well, it's harder to get longevity like that. When people grow with you, they just understand you more. I feel like those are the people you want listening to your music. You don't want people to just like, listen to your music in passing. You want them to feel what you're saying. That's super important.

KU—Yes. Also, it's like, when you start up there, how do you follow up? Like, you can keep growing and keep doing the same things, but it's like, I don't know... It's not as exciting to me. It does come off a little bit inauthentic because it kind of just seems like, okay, a whole team of people put you together. I actually love looking back on my journey. That's what makes me the most proud.

OA—I had some pretty embarrassing videos. Standing on a tire, I had my little Buick in the back. Oh man, we were going crazy though. Just like, all of of my friends in the background doing nothing. Being awkward.

IVAN GUZMAN—So how did you two become besties? And why do you think you guys get along so well?

OA—Shit, how did she become my twin? Shit.

KU—Twin.

OA—It's just easy. I’m telling you, she felt like my prima. Just easy, felt like family right away.

IG—What's your favorite song of Kali's? And Kali, what’s your favorite song of his? 

OA—I really like “Fue Mejor.” That’s the one I've been playing the most right now.

KU—I like his unreleased music more than anything. I love it. It's so good.

OA—Yeah, I got a lot of unreleased stuff.

KU—So, what else?

OA—Shit. Nothing, I'm about to go to the studio in a little bit. I'm probably going to go get some more food. I literally just ate and I'm still hungry. Something's wrong with me.

KU—No, it's fine. Maybe you're pregnant.

OA—You think so? I think it's because I hit legs. I was working out, I hit legs and that shit just makes you hungry and angry. Walking around angry. I'm trying to get thick.

KU—You gotta take that Maca powder.

OA—That's what's going to get me thick?

KU—That Maca powder will do it for you. That's what athletes use, for real. The Incans used it. That's like the ancient root.

OA—Shit, say less. I'm about to go to the smoothie place right now and tell them to put some Maca in my shit.

KU—That’s Mother Nature. You should just go buy it. Put it in all your drinks every morning.

OA—Damn, I should've put it in my smoothie. Is that what you use?

KU—I used to, when I was trying to gain weight. Like 2018-ish. I was trying to gain weight because I never really liked being skinny. So, I did that and then I also just started overeating, which I know you're not supposed to do, but I was eating like double my portions and I gained like 25 pounds over the course of some years.

OA—Yeah, that's what I'm doing right now, eating like, pasta and shit. Just trying to get it thick because we can't tour. I guess they're talking about next year or something.

KU—You need like, salmon, avocado and chicken.

OA—Okay. Damn. So, you're going to tour Sin Miedo next year or what?

KU—I hope so. We filmed that virtual performance the other day. I think it came out good.

OA—What song?

KU—I have this partnership with a tequila brand. Basically they sponsored this live performance that was five different songs from the album.

OA—I guess they're talking about 2022, people are going to start touring again. The vacuna just came out.

KU—Let's hope so.

OA—Swear, I'm tired of being inside. That's why I got to work out. I'm like just doing nothing at the crib, just working.

KU—Get your tour body ready.

OA—Yeah, tour body's in progress.

IG—Besides touring, what's the one thing that you guys are looking forward to doing post-COVID?

OA—Shit, I'm trying to go to Japan or something. I was having so much fun out there, but then COVID hit. I was like, damn. I had to come home. Probably see my family a little more. Go to Mexico, see my family down there. I haven't seen them in a while.

KU—I would say touring is definitely on the top of my priority list because everything else I can still kind of do. I'm going to Columbia next week and everything's opening back up over there. I guess more than anything, I'm just excited for physical contact to be more okay. Like, being able to hug my friends and for that not to be so taboo anymore. Hugging.

IG—If y'all could describe each other in three words, what would they be?

KU—Omar, what three words do you want me to use? Kindhearted. Kindhearted, humble and beautiful. Gorgeous. Gorgeous inside and out.

OA—Aww, thank you. I would say fearless, very loving -- extremely loving to everyone in her life -- and talented.

KU—Thank you, friend.

OA—And beautiful, if there's a fourth one. But I always tell her that. I'm like, ‘Girl, you so pretty.’

KU—He does. We'll just be driving and I'll have no makeup on, looking like shit. He'll be like, ‘You're so gorgeous.’

IG—Can you guys drop any beauty tips? I feel like both of y'alls skin is glowing consistently.

OA—Oh wow, thank you. I have a vitamin C serum. I like a retinol night cream. And then yeah, I mean, I just wash my face every day, honestly. And just drink water.

KU—Yeah, I would say wash your face every night.

OA—You got a whole skin routine video out.

KU—It's a makeup routine video, but anyway, like I was saying, wash your skin every night, but don't wash it in the morning because your skin needs its natural oils.

OA—Oh, I didn't know that.

KU—Yes. Every night you have the whole day on your skin, so obviously you wash it, but I don't wash my skin in the morning.

OA—So you just moisturize in the morning or no?

KU—Yes. I wake up, I might wipe with oil -- I have some facial oils and different serums -- so I might just wipe with some serums, put on a primer before I put makeup on, or put on a sunscreen if I'm not going to wear makeup. Just make sure that you clean your face very well, and frequently, because your pores are open when you sleep.

OA—Period. There you have it.

IG—Do y'all believe in ghosts?

OA—Yes.

KU—Absolutely.

OA—100%.

IG—Can you share if you've had any experiences? Paranormal, spiritual...

OA—I haven't, but my family in Mexico has. They have the craziest stories of shit happening to them. Shit happened to my mom, to my dad, to my cousins, to my uncles. Everyone's got a story, but it's just pretty much the same thing.

KU—But it's not your story. My experience—

OA—Ah! Okay. Go ahead.

KU—No, go ahead. Finish what you were saying.

OA—Girl, she's about to scare us. Just look.

KU—I'm like, should I tell anybody? Because you know the more you talk about that stuff, that's when it comes out.

OA—You know fucking Latinos always got ghost stories.

KU—Okay, let me start with the house I grew up in in Colombia. It’s absolutely haunted. Still haunted to this day. I think it's even more haunted than before, because now my grandma died in there. So, we're trying to figure out how to get her soul out of there because her soul's trapped in there.

OA—Yeah, period.

KU—God bless her soul. But yeah, I don't know. There's something going on over there.

OA—What was happening? Doors shutting? What's going on?

KU—Well, there was one particular time where it was the middle of the night. Well, first of all, my dad just set up security cameras all over the house, and we caught a spirit on the camera.

OA—You could see it?

KU—Yes. Absolutely.

OA—Oh, my God. No, I would have been out.

KU—And that was just recently. But there was an experience there, when I was younger -- well, there were a few experiences, but the one that was most horrifying was when, in the middle of the night, you could hear that someone was coming up the steps, because it was on top of a bakery. We owned a bakery, so we lived on top of it. And you could hear it, somebody coming up the steps, and literally feel it. The air all got cold. And then, whatever it was, came over, opened the door, and sat on the bed.

OA—Ah! Girl. No. My mom told me that she would be washing dishes, and then, she'd feel people tugging on her dress, on her nightgown, just tugging on it. And she would just be like, ‘No.’ And then she'd look, and no one was there. But then she kept feeling it every time she turned around. Crazy.

KU—I feel that the best thing you can do when it comes to portals -- supernatural portals and stuff -- is keep them closed. Because my grandma, she was a shaman, and I think that's why sometimes, in those houses and stuff, there was a lot of different spirits. And I don't have that at my house.

OA—Exactly. My mom, last time she was here, she brought a Windex spray bottle and just put holy water [in it] and then started spraying the house.

KU—And sage. I sage and incense the house every Sunday when I can. You just open all the doors, open all the windows, all the cabinets, and just let the energy out. Because you don’t know what kinds of energies can get trapped in your house from people coming in and out.

OA—Yeah, from where you're going in the day. Also, before I go to sleep, I've been doing this oración since I was a little kid, since I could talk, but it's basically banishing all the evil spirits before you go to sleep so you could sleep well. But sleep paralysis be scaring me. I be thinking there's something in my house.

KU—Did I tell you what happened to me the other week?

OA—No. Tell me. What happened?

KU—Okay. I've never experienced sleep paralysis before in my life.

OA—How long ago did you get it?

KU—Oh, this was last week.

OA—Oh, shit.

KU—I had never experienced it before, and I have very vivid dreams. I was having, actually, a nightmare. I’ve had a recurring nightmare since I was little, that someone is just chasing me and chasing me and wants to kill me, this man. And I always wake up when I die. But this particular nightmare, it was like I was in my house, but it wasn't my house. And there were people walking all around my -- you know how I have my balcony right outside of my room? There's people walking back and forth around the house, on the balcony, and they wanted to get into the house. But they couldn't get into the house. And I'm laying in bed, and all of a sudden I felt that someone got into the house. They came into my bedroom, but I couldn't move.

OA—Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I hate it.

KU—That’s when I woke up. I don't know if it was sleep paralysis or if somehow... I mean, my friend who has sleep paralysis told me she feels that, but I guess, when you wake up, that your body doesn't fully wake up or whatever. But I had woken up, and I was lying on my side facing the wall, which is weird because my friends told me sleep paralysis usually happens lying on your back. So, I was laying on my side, and I could feel that someone came up behind me. Right next to me, right here. They had a blade, and they put a blade by my ankle, like, ‘Don't move’ type, just stuck it. I could feel that it was stabbing me, and I was so terrified. And I was awake when it was happening. So, I was terrified.

OA—Yeah. Your brain is insane. That's been happening to me since I was a little kid. I've had a million sleep paralysis stories, where I was sleeping with a friend in his bed. I was really young when this happened -- it was my first one -- and I remember he just put his arm up, and then there's a knife. And he just stabs me. And then I see all these crows flying around in the room, and I'm awake. Then this [crow] goes down, and it flies into my stomach, and it's just going around in a circle. And these crows are just inside of my stomach, moving. And then I snap out of it.

KU—That's exactly how my dreams are. They will be the most random, most vivid things sometimes, because they're just very vivid in general. So it will really feel like it's happening. That's the most scary part about having them. But I stopped having nightmares. I used to have nightmares a lot when I was little, but I stopped having them until recently -- during the pandemic -- I started having nightmares again.

OA—I've been having a lot of elevator dreams, where I get inside of an elevator and then it shoots up extremely high, super fast. And then it starts swinging and shit, and it just keeps going up, up, up, up, up, up. I keep having that dream. It's so weird.

KU—I forget what that means, but I used to have a friend who was having that dream, too. I never had an elevator dream before. But, yeah, there's a meaning for that. Did you look it up?

OA—Yeah, it was something about how there's a lot of changes happening in your life very fast, or success, or whatever. Just shit like that.

KU—Dreams are mysterious.

IG—Do you guys have anything more to say, maybe to your fans, respectively, but also to the fans who love you guys together and maybe want a full album from you two?

OA—We got music coming for sure.

KU—Definitely.

OA—A lot of music.

KU—Definitely a lot of music on the way. And so, to all the fans out there, I would just say to do what you want to do, keep being yourself, and that we love you guys.

OA—Bye, girl. Love you. Text me.

• Lighting tech: Hector Clark
• Set design: Isaac Aaron
• Fashion assistants: Elsa Herri and Shay Galla
• Production assistant: Jason Housman