Kali Uchis: I Always Die When I Wake Up

April 22, 2021

Kali Uchis is instantly recognizable. It isn’t just her beauty—those big, striking eyes and her signature pout. It’s also her raspy, primed-for-ASMR singing voice. It’s her aesthetic, which is infused with distinct notes of an upbringing in the barrios of Colombia and a retro babydoll glam. It all pulls from a certain Amy Winehouse-ian school of thought, one that centers around communicating chronic heartbreak through a tortured, winged-liner female avatar.

The 26-year-old first came onto the scene in 2015 with her debut EP Por Vida. It was distinctly its own sound and vibe, a reggaeton-meets-early 2000’s R&B fusion that felt like riding around on a beach cruiser in East LA with your friends at sunset. That project, as well as 2018’s Isolation, alluded to Uchis’s Latin roots mostly in style. But that all changed in late 2020 when she dropped her predominantly Spanish language album Sin Miedo (Del Amor y Otros Demonios).

Text by Ivan Guzman
Interview by Omar Apollo
Photos by Marcus Cooper
Styling by Caitlan Hickey
Produced by Mitchell Connell
Hair by Fitch Lunar
Makeup by Etienne Ortega
Nails by Soji
Video by Mac Shoop

Sin Miedo is arguably her best work to date. On it, she experiments with her voice and with genre in a way that can only be described as revelatory. It’s ultra-glam and fully Latina, touching on Latin trap, jazz, even Bolero. The album is a sonic feat, one that was made possible by her decision to sing exclusively in Spanish, which, as she tells us, was extremely discouraged by labels and industry professionals who surrounded her.

But the decision paid off. At the time of writing this, her song “Telepatia” has become a global hit. Each day, the song’s streams nearly double, and it currently sits at #3 on the Spotify Global Chart. It happened organically, on TikTok, with no push from the label, no big-name feature on the track, and no music video. She just won a grammy for her feature on Kaytranada’s song “10%.” It feels as if the underground star has reached a turning point.

To talk about it all, we linked Kali up with her bestie, Omar Apollo, the 23-year-old R&B heartthrob whose dance moves and similar Latino upbringing have made him one of music’s brightest rising stars. Omar and Kali discuss demons, sleep paralysis and Latinx music supremacy.

KALI UCHIS—What's up?

OMAR APOLLO—Nothing, honestly. I just spilt all this rice on the floor.

KU—Good stuff.

OA—Why you being so funny?

KU—What you want me to say? Oh my god, do you want me to come over and clean it?

OA—Are you nervous?

KU—No, I just...

OA—You sound nervous.

KU—No, I'm just ready to take a shower.

OA—Yeah. I just got put together. I'm waiting outside for my car. I ran over a piece of glass and I'm just waiting for them to put the new tire on so I can go get some food.

KU—I hate that.

OA—Let's talk about “Telepatía,” girl. What's going on? What’s happening?

KU—I don't know what's happening, but something's going on out there. Yeah, something's really happening. There's a shift. There's been a shift. It's funny because before I dropped the album, I said, ‘Todo lo que me a quitado la vida me lo va a duplicar.’ And I was thinking this morning, that's what this is. This is karma.

OA—Karma?!

KU—Yeah. It’s good karma.

OA—Obsessed with that.

KU—Yeah, I swear to god. Even in the beginning of the album, that part where I'm like, “¿Y tú, que pensaste? Que yo me iba a echar a morir?” I feel like this is just Sin Miedo’s revenge body. She's just coming for everything that she deserves. Even though I made it, honestly, out of love, more than anything at all, and because I really wanted to, I also think that being more intentional with how I made music also played a big part in it—of actually focusing on what I wanted to put out into the world, energetically.

OA—That's cool. Do you think that whatever you write, it's like you putting out that energy into the world and then receiving it back?

KU—Yes. Like “Telepatia,” it's not just a love song. I wanted it to lift people up, and to see it being able to lift people up, and for them to be spreading my feeling this way is just amazing. I feel like every song has a different...you express yourself in different ways. But that's why that one is special. What's even more special about it is there's no feature. So we're really breaking barriers for how people look at Latin women, what we're able to do with no feature and with no support. This is a song that got no push.

OA—I saw that you're the only Latina woman up there right now, which is crazy.

KU—Yeah. No push.

OA—No features.

KU—A lot of people didn't want me to make this album because they felt like it wasn't going to have commercial success.

OA—I hate that kind of pressure. I feel like a lot of people have told me that, but a lot of my fans are Latino. So it's like, huh? What are you talking about?

KU—I think for a lot of artists, we started out just making stuff that is authentic to us, and then the lines can get very blurry and it can get very confusing when you have a lot of people around you putting pressure on commercial success. Something that I've tried to maintain is that balance of remembering not only where I came from, but why I started in the first place. And I started because it's fun. I love expressing myself. I love creating projects, not just one song. Regardless of if the song blows up or happens to become a hit magically or whatever. A hit would never make me—I’ve made a hit. When you have a career, it’s not just one song.

OA—That's funny, that people would tell you not to make this album because the first song I heard from you was actually “Sabor A Mí.” You've been doing that shit.

KU—Spanish has always been something that's part of my brand. And this is something that I didn't even realize, but when I got signed, it was actually in my contract that only music in English would count towards an album.

OA—No way.

KU—Yes. And before I put this album out, my lawyer had to fight to change that in order for this to come out as an album. But when I first signed, I signed in the UK, just because I really needed money to make Isolation, and to live in general. I think, over there especially, there's not as big of a Latin community, so it's very hard for them to understand. They're like, ‘That's not lucrative.’ Like, the Latin industry is not lucrative. You're moving backwards. People in the Latin space are trying to learn how to make music in English so they can break out in the Anglo community. They’re like, ‘Shouldn't you just make music in English?’ and I'm like, ‘This is part of who I am. This is part of my culture.’ Something that's also very important is things have to feel authentic or else they just don't translate. Because there's a lot of people who are trying to make Spanish music now, because it's—

OA—It's popping.

KU—Yeah, it's definitely becoming more popular. So people are trying to do that, but it shows. It shows when it's not natural to somebody.

OA—That's something I've noticed in your music, too. We've talked about it before. The skill level that you're writing in Spanish is the same as in English. I've told you many times, I love the way you write in Spanish. I think it's beautiful, all the words you say. That's why the people who are just trying to hop on or whatever, it never really works out. If I write in Spanish, I gotta make sure it's good, you know? I'm from Indiana. There were Latinos, but you know, I don't even live with my mom no more, so I don’t even talk to them in Spanish anymore. But I'm trying to get better. Just practice.

KU—Yeah. I think because I learned to read and write Spanish before English and I went to school when I was really little in Colombia, it’s so deeply rooted in me that even if I'm not speaking Spanish for a long time, when I start again, it kinda just comes back. But if you just start practicing a little more, a lot of things will come back to you that you don't even realize are there already, since you've been speaking it since you were little. I think just the idea in general of artists that were raised bilingual was always something that was very niche—I was always told that I was never going to be a commercially successful artist. I was told that I was always going to be an artist who had a niche fanbase and was like, you know, a cool thing, but that could never be lucrative enough for anyone to want to spend real money on my projects. That can be discouraging for artists of course, because it takes money to make art. It takes money to make music videos. So, I think a lot of people have been discouraged from embracing their heritage or from embracing bilingual music or music in Spanish if they can speak English. That's why it's special for me. Obviously I'm very proud that it's doing what it's doing, but more than anything, I'm proud that it's kind of a testament to other Latinas, in general—that it's something we can do and we don't need to rely on the support of anyone else to be able to do it.

OA—Definitely. I think it's super important that people know that it ain't no features. It is Latina women carrying shit right now. And the music is amazing. Some people are just more of like, a personality. But the fact is that, you know, we got everything here. She's giving everything, she's giving us music. She's giving us looks. It's great.

KU—Like I said, when we start, we're just expressing ourselves. And then when you become more conscious of the fact that you're like, actually representing different communities, whether it be the Black, or LGBTQ community, or whatever community it is that you're representing, it's like, you become a lot more conscious of the fact that you want to be a good representation, you know? So, I think all of that plays a part in just growing up. Sometimes it's so weird to grow up in public. But at the same time, you have a whole generation of people that have basically been on this journey with you, and have seen you grow up, and seen you make mistakes, and seen you go through different eras and go through different phases... I don't know. That, in a way, does make it so much more special. I definitely wouldn't trade the journey for anything else.

OA—I feel like they also really notice the progression of your music and just like, you and your art, and just as a person. Because I mean, shit, when I first started out, I was not dressing. I didn't have any money, so it was just whatever I got at the thrift shop, doing my shows like that, and for 200 people. And then having all these crazy ass fits like, what? Two years later. It’s nice to have that progression, because then you go back and listen to your old shit and you're like, you know, it's still fire, but it's just different.

KU—No, I feel like when I started, I definitely, later on, was embarrassed by all those—

OA—You were embarrassed?

KU—Yeah, by certain things, because you're like, ‘Oh wow, this sounds horrible.’ I didn't know how to sing when I was first starting to make music at all. You know, I was doing DIY guerrilla style videos in the streets of Colombia, just with my brother and my cousins. Sometimes you see other artists that, as soon as they come out, they have dancers and they have a budget for their shows, and they have these huge music video productions for their first music videos ever. And it's a little bit like, damn. It kind of makes you wonder how things would have been if you were able to have that same support from the beginning. What you don't realize is that the journey is literally the most important part of all of it. It's not important to have overnight success. It's not important to just all of a sudden go from here to here.

OA—Well, it's harder to get longevity like that. When people grow with you, they just understand you more. I feel like those are the people you want listening to your music. You don't want people to just like, listen to your music in passing. You want them to feel what you're saying. That's super important.

KU—Yes. Also, it's like, when you start up there, how do you follow up? Like, you can keep growing and keep doing the same things, but it's like, I don't know... It's not as exciting to me. It does come off a little bit inauthentic because it kind of just seems like, okay, a whole team of people put you together. I actually love looking back on my journey. That's what makes me the most proud.

OA—I had some pretty embarrassing videos. Standing on a tire, I had my little Buick in the back. Oh man, we were going crazy though. Just like, all of of my friends in the background doing nothing. Being awkward.

IVAN GUZMAN—So how did you two become besties? And why do you think you guys get along so well?

OA—Shit, how did she become my twin? Shit.

KU—Twin.

OA—It's just easy. I’m telling you, she felt like my prima. Just easy, felt like family right away.

IG—What's your favorite song of Kali's? And Kali, what’s your favorite song of his?

OA—I really like “Fue Mejor.” That’s the one I've been playing the most right now.

KU—I like his unreleased music more than anything. I love it. It's so good.

OA—Yeah, I got a lot of unreleased stuff.

KU—So, what else?

OA—Shit. Nothing, I'm about to go to the studio in a little bit. I'm probably going to go get some more food. I literally just ate and I'm still hungry. Something's wrong with me.

KU—No, it's fine. Maybe you're pregnant.

OA—You think so? I think it's because I hit legs. I was working out, I hit legs and that shit just makes you hungry and angry. Walking around angry. I'm trying to get thick.

KU—You gotta take that Maca powder.

OA—That's what's going to get me thick?

KU—That Maca powder will do it for you. That's what athletes use, for real. The Incans used it. That's like the ancient root.

OA—Shit, say less. I'm about to go to the smoothie place right now and tell them to put some Maca in my shit.

KU—That’s Mother Nature. You should just go buy it. Put it in all your drinks every morning.

OA—Damn, I should've put it in my smoothie. Is that what you use?

KU—I used to, when I was trying to gain weight. Like 2018-ish. I was trying to gain weight because I never really liked being skinny. So, I did that and then I also just started overeating, which I know you're not supposed to do, but I was eating like double my portions and I gained like 25 pounds over the course of some years.

OA—Yeah, that's what I'm doing right now, eating like, pasta and shit. Just trying to get it thick because we can't tour. I guess they're talking about next year or something.

KU—You need like, salmon, avocado and chicken.

OA—Okay. Damn. So, you're going to tour Sin Miedo next year or what?

KU—I hope so. We filmed that virtual performance the other day. I think it came out good.

OA—What song?

KU—I have this partnership with a tequila brand. Basically they sponsored this live performance that was five different songs from the album.

OA—I guess they're talking about 2022, people are going to start touring again. The vacuna just came out.

KU—Let's hope so.

OA—Swear, I'm tired of being inside. That's why I got to work out. I'm like just doing nothing at the crib, just working.

KU—Get your tour body ready.

OA—Yeah, tour body's in progress.

I feel that the best thing you can do when it comes to portals — supernatural portals and stuff — is keep them closed.

IG—Besides touring, what's the one thing that you guys are looking forward to doing post-COVID?

OA—Shit, I'm trying to go to Japan or something. I was having so much fun out there, but then COVID hit. I was like, damn. I had to come home. Probably see my family a little more. Go to Mexico, see my family down there. I haven't seen them in a while.

KU—I would say touring is definitely on the top of my priority list because everything else I can still kind of do. I'm going to Columbia next week and everything's opening back up over there. I guess more than anything, I'm just excited for physical contact to be more okay. Like, being able to hug my friends and for that not to be so taboo anymore. Hugging.

IG—If y'all could describe each other in three words, what would they be?

KU—Omar, what three words do you want me to use? Kindhearted. Kindhearted, humble and beautiful. Gorgeous. Gorgeous inside and out.

OA—Aww, thank you. I would say fearless, very loving -- extremely loving to everyone in her life -- and talented.

KU—Thank you, friend.

OA—And beautiful, if there's a fourth one. But I always tell her that. I'm like, ‘Girl, you so pretty.’

KU—He does. We'll just be driving and I'll have no makeup on, looking like shit. He'll be like, ‘You're so gorgeous.’

IG—Can you guys drop any beauty tips? I feel like both of y'alls skin is glowing consistently.

OA—Oh wow, thank you. I have a vitamin C serum. I like a retinol night cream. And then yeah, I mean, I just wash my face every day, honestly. And just drink water.

KU—Yeah, I would say wash your face every night.

OA—You got a whole skin routine video out.

KU—It's a makeup routine video, but anyway, like I was saying, wash your skin every night, but don't wash it in the morning because your skin needs its natural oils.

OA—Oh, I didn't know that.

KU—Yes. Every night you have the whole day on your skin, so obviously you wash it, but I don't wash my skin in the morning.

OA—So you just moisturize in the morning or no?

KU—Yes. I wake up, I might wipe with oil -- I have some facial oils and different serums -- so I might just wipe with some serums, put on a primer before I put makeup on, or put on a sunscreen if I'm not going to wear makeup. Just make sure that you clean your face very well, and frequently, because your pores are open when you sleep.

OA—Period. There you have it.

IG—Do y'all believe in ghosts?

OA—Yes.

KU—Absolutely.

OA—100%.

IG—Can you share if you've had any experiences? Paranormal, spiritual...

OA—I haven't, but my family in Mexico has. They have the craziest stories of shit happening to them. Shit happened to my mom, to my dad, to my cousins, to my uncles. Everyone's got a story, but it's just pretty much the same thing.

KU—But it's not your story. My experience—

OA—Ah! Okay. Go ahead.

KU—No, go ahead. Finish what you were saying.

OA—Girl, she's about to scare us. Just look.

KU—I'm like, should I tell anybody? Because you know the more you talk about that stuff, that's when it comes out.

OA—You know fucking Latinos always got ghost stories.

KU—Okay, let me start with the house I grew up in in Colombia. It’s absolutely haunted. Still haunted to this day. I think it's even more haunted than before, because now my grandma died in there. So, we're trying to figure out how to get her soul out of there because her soul's trapped in there.

OA—Yeah, period.

KU—God bless her soul. But yeah, I don't know. There's something going on over there.

OA—What was happening? Doors shutting? What's going on?

KU—Well, there was one particular time where it was the middle of the night. Well, first of all, my dad just set up security cameras all over the house, and we caught a spirit on the camera.

OA—You could see it?

KU—Yes. Absolutely.

OA—Oh, my God. No, I would have been out.

KU—And that was just recently. But there was an experience there, when I was younger -- well, there were a few experiences, but the one that was most horrifying was when, in the middle of the night, you could hear that someone was coming up the steps, because it was on top of a bakery. We owned a bakery, so we lived on top of it. And you could hear it, somebody coming up the steps, and literally feel it. The air all got cold. And then, whatever it was, came over, opened the door, and sat on the bed.

OA—Ah! Girl. No. My mom told me that she would be washing dishes, and then, she'd feel people tugging on her dress, on her nightgown, just tugging on it. And she would just be like, ‘No.’ And then she'd look, and no one was there. But then she kept feeling it every time she turned around. Crazy.

KU—I feel that the best thing you can do when it comes to portals -- supernatural portals and stuff -- is keep them closed. Because my grandma, she was a shaman, and I think that's why sometimes, in those houses and stuff, there was a lot of different spirits. And I don't have that at my house.

OA—Exactly. My mom, last time she was here, she brought a Windex spray bottle and just put holy water [in it] and then started spraying the house.

KU—And sage. I sage and incense the house every Sunday when I can. You just open all the doors, open all the windows, all the cabinets, and just let the energy out. Because you don’t know what kinds of energies can get trapped in your house from people coming in and out.

OA—Yeah, from where you're going in the day. Also, before I go to sleep, I've been doing this oración since I was a little kid, since I could talk, but it's basically banishing all the evil spirits before you go to sleep so you could sleep well. But sleep paralysis be scaring me. I be thinking there's something in my house.

KU—Did I tell you what happened to me the other week?

OA—No. Tell me. What happened?

KU—Okay. I've never experienced sleep paralysis before in my life.

OA—How long ago did you get it?

KU—Oh, this was last week.

OA—Oh, shit.

KU—I had never experienced it before, and I have very vivid dreams. I was having, actually, a nightmare. I’ve had a recurring nightmare since I was little, that someone is just chasing me and chasing me and wants to kill me, this man. And I always wake up when I die. But this particular nightmare, it was like I was in my house, but it wasn't my house. And there were people walking all around my -- you know how I have my balcony right outside of my room? There's people walking back and forth around the house, on the balcony, and they wanted to get into the house. But they couldn't get into the house. And I'm laying in bed, and all of a sudden I felt that someone got into the house. They came into my bedroom, but I couldn't move.

OA—Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I hate it.

KU—That’s when I woke up. I don't know if it was sleep paralysis or if somehow... I mean, my friend who has sleep paralysis told me she feels that, but I guess, when you wake up, that your body doesn't fully wake up or whatever. But I had woken up, and I was lying on my side facing the wall, which is weird because my friends told me sleep paralysis usually happens lying on your back. So, I was laying on my side, and I could feel that someone came up behind me. Right next to me, right here. They had a blade, and they put a blade by my ankle, like, ‘Don't move’ type, just stuck it. I could feel that it was stabbing me, and I was so terrified. And I was awake when it was happening. So, I was terrified.

OA—Yeah. Your brain is insane. That's been happening to me since I was a little kid. I've had a million sleep paralysis stories, where I was sleeping with a friend in his bed. I was really young when this happened -- it was my first one -- and I remember he just put his arm up, and then there's a knife. And he just stabs me. And then I see all these crows flying around in the room, and I'm awake. Then this [crow] goes down, and it flies into my stomach, and it's just going around in a circle. And these crows are just inside of my stomach, moving. And then I snap out of it.

KU—That's exactly how my dreams are. They will be the most random, most vivid things sometimes, because they're just very vivid in general. So it will really feel like it's happening. That's the most scary part about having them. But I stopped having nightmares. I used to have nightmares a lot when I was little, but I stopped having them until recently -- during the pandemic -- I started having nightmares again.

OA—I've been having a lot of elevator dreams, where I get inside of an elevator and then it shoots up extremely high, super fast. And then it starts swinging and shit, and it just keeps going up, up, up, up, up, up. I keep having that dream. It's so weird.

KU—I forget what that means, but I used to have a friend who was having that dream, too. I never had an elevator dream before. But, yeah, there's a meaning for that. Did you look it up?

OA—Yeah, it was something about how there's a lot of changes happening in your life very fast, or success, or whatever. Just shit like that.

KU—Dreams are mysterious.

IG—Do you guys have anything more to say, maybe to your fans, respectively, but also to the fans who love you guys together and maybe want a full album from you two?

OA—We got music coming for sure.

KU—Definitely.

OA—A lot of music.

KU—Definitely a lot of music on the way. And so, to all the fans out there, I would just say to do what you want to do, keep being yourself, and that we love you guys.

OA—Bye, girl. Love you. Text me.

Lighting tech: Hector Clark
Set design: Isaac Aaron
Fashion assistants: Elsa Herri and Shay Galla
Production assistant: Jason Housman

Music

CHASING ROY BLAIR

November 18, 2024

For those of us a little too deep in our feels in 2017, Roy Blair was an oasis in an age of uncertainty. It was the era of interpersonal lyricism: vulnerable storytelling set against synth-heavy backdrops tied together with grounding hooks. Lost in the ruins of Spotify, stumbling across artists who brought raw emotion to life, we found ourselves captivated by Blair’s debut album, Cat Heaven. A mind-altering introduction to his genius, the album became the soundtrack to our year—from the joyous highs to the moments where only his words could describe the anxieties we couldn’t articulate. Roy did for us what other artists tried to do.

But then, when we needed him most, he vanished. Fans turned to Reddit deep dives marked with threads like “r/WHERE_IS_ROY_BLAIR?” as rumors swirled about an imminent second album. Years passed. The wait grew longer. But, half a decade later, the rumors proved true.

Intro + Interview by: Cassie Jekanoski
Photography by: Jeret Cheatham

Suddenly, notifications were lighting up phones everywhere: Roy Blair was back with a new project, Chasing Moving Trains. First came “Panavision” — a sweeping accumulation of his past, present, and future. Then, “Strawberry,” an upbeat, serotonin-laced track destined for replays. When the full album finally dropped, it was unmistakable—this was the purest embodiment of Roy Blair yet.

In an exclusive interview with the artist, office sat down with Blair to discuss the long-awaited release of Chasing Moving Trains, the headspace that defined his hiatus, and what lies ahead.

Read on as we delve into the truths behind those restless Reddit threads and answer the questions we’ve all been dying to know the answers to.

CASSIE– It's been a year for me since I've done an interview with somebody, so thank you for taking the time to do this. So first off, hi. How are you doing?

ROY BLAIR– I'm good. Sick. Yeah, just taking it day by day right now, honestly.

Cool. And where are you now?

New York.

Well, first off, I just wanted to say that I've been a fan of your music since literally 2017, 2018, and some of your songs have really just been the soundtrack to some of my happiest/most sentimental memories that I have had over the years. So thank you for sharing your art with us.

That means a lot. Thank you. I mean, it's so nice. I did another interview with someone and it's been half a decade or more, so the people who would be interviewing me are like, "Oh, I listened to your music." And that's so cool. Whereas when I was first doing interviews around Cat Heaven, it was like, "Who are you?" That was more of the vibe.

Damn. I mean, well, yeah, I'm coming out of interview retirement to do this. So let's get into it. So Chasing Moving Trains, what is the significance of this album title for you?

It's a few things. So I would say the main point of it is just always wanting some sort of perfection or the thing that you dream in your head to fully come to life. It’s always chasing this non-existent utopia of achieving what you want to achieve in life. It's sort of, the grass is greener on the other side always, and so you’re never really settling and appreciating what you have in front of you. The steps along the way I think are beautiful and worth just as much of your time, or maybe more of your time, than getting to the final thing. The point of the title is always chasing this ideal that you have in your head. And then the other thing is this is a record about finding yourself and going out into the world and learning more about yourself by meeting more people, by experiencing more things. The title is also literally this- I'm taking so many trains that I'm almost missing the train, if you will.

The train itself.

Yeah, or I'm traveling so much, whether it be on tour or just working on the record. I recorded the record in a few places. It's just this nonstop travel and exploration of the world and in turn yourself as well.

Sick. I feel like as an artist, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's in searching for that end goal, that maybe sometimes you stop to kind of realize where you've been, the different things that you've learned, and the different people that you've met along the way.

Totally.

I got a chance to listen to the album and I've literally been listening nonstop.

That's amazing. Thank you.

It's so good. In the title song itself, you repeat the phrase, "sometimes I can't recognize myself." Is that something that you would want to dive deeper into?

I don't know if anyone else has this experience, but sometimes I think I have a depersonalization, or I think there's an actual phrase for it, where you almost don't feel like you're in your own body. I think the thing I'm talking about is where sometimes you literally feel outside of your body. You're watching a person live your life, and sometimes I think I have that. I think sometimes I can feel so empty or in such a strange place in my life that I almost feel like I'm not recognizing the person I am. I'm not living in the moment or being present that I don't even know sometimes who I am, which is, I think that goes back to that album title and why that's the title track. There's this recurring kind of narrative thread in the record about shadows and reflections. I was trying to connect this surrealism thing where basically- I don't know. I don't want to maybe ruin it or maybe over explain it, but that does tie into this thing I was trying to tell with basically a shadow of me following me, being paranoid about my career, and my life. The main concept is really just that sometimes I literally look in the mirror and be like, I don't know who I'm looking at sometimes because maybe I'm just so out of it, or not in the moment.

Well, would you say that, especially with this new album, would you say that this a cathartic release for you and by putting this album out you're able to recognize yourself and know who you are?

Yeah, I think so for sure. I think in a funny way, spending as much time as I did with this record and falling in and out of love with making it. There was a time where I was kind of just like, “I don't really like making music anymore.” I think I was so stressed about the concept of, "Oh, I have to finish this. People are waiting for this." At this point, I'm off social media and I have to come back at some point. Then it started to pile onto me, and then I was like, "Okay, I'm going to take a step away from this." And then I started DJing in New York. This was summer 2022, and that kind of got me excited again about making music. I started locking back in on the record and I think in a funny way, even the process of making this record was cathartic because I sat with it for so long and I sat away from the audience for so long. This record is so me. You know what I mean? There's no, "Oh, I'm trying to keep up with a system." It's really just me being indulgent in a good way and being confident about it. I think it's definitely cathartic for me.

No, that's sick to hear. I'm glad that all of those different experiences brought you back into making music. But a big question that I feel like many fans are curious about was what you kind of brought up a little bit, but just taking some time in between Cat Heaven and Chasing Moving Trains. Was there anything else that you kind of wanted to bring up that was going through your mind during those years?

Yeah, I mean, the main idea is I started working on this record in January 2019. Well, honestly, I was trying to start the day after I finished Cat Heaven and I think all of 2018 was me trying to figure out what the record was going to be tonally. And then the first song that is on the album that we made was "Garden" and that was December 2018. And then the newest song in the record is 2021.

Which one?

It's "Belmont."

Okay, cool.

Well, that song is actually from 2019, but we flipped it completely. I would say that when I was working on that song, it was much different, and I was working on it a lot in 2021. But technically the newest song is "Strawberry" from Summer 2020 in terms of fresh idea. But I would argue that "Belmont" changed so much that it's almost a different song entirely. We were in London when COVID happened, working on this album, I had just made "Plum," and then the lockdown stuff was really getting serious, and we got back from London the week before everything actually closed. We were going to go to Tokyo, but that got canceled. We were going to go in April, and then it was kind of just like, "So what are we going to do now that there's this big space in between?" But now with as much time that has passed, people haven't fully thought about that being a part of this story.

I mean, it definitely is.

Yeah. And then we started basically picking work back up at the end of 2020. It was a lot of figuring out what I wanted to say that honestly took the most amount of time, just lyrics and also me growing up in real time. Maybe there were songs, ideas, or verses where I felt that was an older version of me, and that didn't really feel like the future of who I am and what I really want to be. The album took this long, might as well make it count, you know? I don't want to put out something just to put out something. At this point it's gotta matter.

Definitely.

The lockdown and everything in 2020 really kind of made me take a step back and just start existing more in real life. And then I started just growing up and the record took a long time because of that.

Yeah, I mean, that totally makes sense. I feel like especially in these past few years, there has been so much change happening that no one really had control over. So I totally get that break and need to figure out who you are, not even just as an artist, but just as a person in general, especially at such a pivotal turning point. How would you say you've grown as an artist since Cat Heaven to where you're at now? And has that growth been reflected in this new album?

First thing is just taste wise. My taste has expanded a lot just in terms of what I'm listening to. There was a lot of electronic music I got into in 2018 that just shaped a whole section of who Roy Blair is going forward that you hear on Graffiti and you hear a little bit more on this. I think that's a big component. I think Cat Heaven, Chasing Moving Trains, and even Graffiti, are pretty similar, and I think if you're a fan of me, you can clock that. I think obviously there's a lot of production differences, but I think at the core, you could listen to Cat Heaven, Chasing Moving Trains, and go, "Okay, he's kind of doing similar things with structure here, or narrative. This feels like the climax of both records." I still love Cat Heaven, still go back to that record, and go, "Hey, I didn't really know what I was doing other than that I think I have good sensibilities for how an album should feel front to back." I figured it out, and that resonated with people, and I knew that, so I wanted to do a better version of that basically. So I think the only things that have really changed is just that I got a bigger budget to do this, and I'm working with maybe more people, but honestly, I've kind of kept some of the things very similar because I think the things that mean a lot to the fans also mean a lot to me.

I can definitely see from 2017 to now, and even your project in between, you have influences from both of those, and it's kind of the perfect culmination in Chasing Moving Trains where you get that synth, you get that techno. But then it also breaks down to where it's just you being raw and singing the lyrics that are still really impactful and meaningful, but it's kind of a whole big present all wrapped into one.

I really connect "Rain" on this album to "Grand Theft Auto." Originally it was supposed to be the same amount of tracks, but I cut it down because it's about the album being better, not always about narrative. But there are a lot of counterparts in terms of you could look at this song and it's this song, or you can look at that song and it's kind of similar to what he was doing with that song. But yeah, I think there's a lot of similarities. There's a lot of threads between both records, or all three records for that matter.

Yeah, definitely. I think I'm kind of deciding what my favorite track from this album is. I think as of right now it's Amberwood.

Oh, sick.

The first time listening to it, I literally got the craziest chills and had to text all my friends. I was like, "Oh my God, just wait until this song comes out. You guys are going to freak out." I feel like it's raw. The lyrics are really beautiful and also a bit haunting. At least what I took away from it was what you were going through and talking about those first feelings you had when first starting to make music and the aftermath of that. So can you get into what you were feeling when you were writing this song?

I think the idea started in Iceland. Originally it was basically up until when the drums drop was the original version, and then there was kind of a different hook, and I was like, "Nah, this hook, it's not very good. Let's just take it off. And I don't like where the song goes." In London in February of 2020, we got to the part where the drums drop and then we were trying to figure it out, but I didn't write that second verse until summer 2020. So if you think about it, it's kind of funny because those verses feel different in energy, or just maybe where my head's at in terms of where I'm at in my career, you know what I mean? When I first started that, just to be honest, I didn't have an idea. We were making music day in and day out in Iceland, and it kind of just came to me and I was like, "Oh, this is a cool concept." As I was sitting on that, my energy towards being in the music industry started to shift slightly, and just the tone of my career or certain things that were frustrating me a lot, being independent at the time started changing. Then you got the third verse where it almost feels like the tone of where it's getting to where I'm at, and the feeling of where I'm at shifting. You can kind of feel it shift in real time over the song.

You definitely see it. It's really interesting to hear your insight on it and where you were spatially location-wise and everything when you were writing that song and finishing all of that up. Do you have a personal favorite from the album?

Yeah, I think so. I think that it changes a lot for me, which is always a good sign where I'm like, "Oh, this one's actually clicking." I think it used to be "Panavision" for a while, and then now I think a lot this year it's been "Garden." For a long time it was also "Plum." And then I think the title track to me these days, I like listening to it a lot. I think that run from basically Chasing Moving Trains to the end of the album is pretty fucking great. Maybe I'll start with "Panavision" and then I'll just let the album run and I'll be like, alright, I'm just going to listen to the rest of the record, which is a good sign.

Sick, "Garden's" really, really great. So I feel like throughout this, you've been talking about different locations and whether in Iceland, London, or Japan not happening at that moment. So you were kind of traveling in all these different places. Are there any other places that you were at when you were making the album?

Just New York a lot. So I was in LA and it was feeling pretty stagnant. This was like 2018, and I was doing sessions and nothing was feeling great. I would go to New York for a show or something and I'd do a session with these guys I ended up working with. And then me and my friend Edgar, went to New York at the beginning of 2019 to work with these guys. It was icy and cold, and we were listening to Radiohead and a bunch of stuff, and it was just very different. It was a tone shift the minute we landed, and then it kind of reflected immediately in the music we were making. So I would argue it's kind of like New York, Iceland, London, and then maybe in sort of a fake way Japan as well. I think it's still narratively a part of the record, even if we didn't go, I think the record theoretically ends there or something, or maybe ends with me coming back home to LA or New York. I think that the concept at the end of the record is me stepping off the train and into a new place or into a new part of my life, if you will.

Sick. So would you say that, so now you're living in New York, what is it about the city that continues to inspire you?

All of my friends here are just amazing artists. Everyone I know here doesn't feel like they always have to be online or share everything they're doing all the time. It's not very performative. So it's just me and my friends and we make music at each other's places and we're just hanging out. And sometimes we go to stuff, but not really. I'm able to find more of the stuff that I resonate with hobby-wise. I go to the movies all the time here, I see old movies at Metrograph, I go buy used CDs, or go bike at the park near me. There's just a lot more of a sense that I can go outside and find something that's going to fulfill the non-music aspect of me that for some reason I just struggled to find in LA.

That's cool. I love to hear that. I totally understand where it's so easy to get caught up and wrapped up in a scene. You mentioned it earlier too, about DJing these past couple of years, so now that this new project is out, do you think that DJing is something that you'll continue to do?

Yeah, definitely. I'm specific in what I like. I'm probably not a good DJ definition wise just because I think it's valid that a part of DJing is making the crowd entertained, so I don't know if it's that I'm DJing for the wrong crowd. I don't really like a lot of new stuff, the stuff I play I feel like is not super loud either. It's kind of just quieter music. So I don't know. I love doing it. I don't get offered a lot of gigs, honestly, but I'm not really looking. I don't go out and go like, "Hey, book me, book me." This is kind of like a hobby for me. I'm so down to do it more, it's just a matter of when, or if it gets brought up to me really.

How similar or different your mixes are compared to the music that you make? And what kind of artists inspired Chasing Moving Trains?

One of the big influences that I would recommend anyone to check out is the Trainspotting soundtrack. I was scared by it. The music itself freaked me out when I was younger. But as I got older and rewatched the movie, I'm doing this electronic album studying and I'm like, "Oh, yeah, I love this song." Underworld is a nineties, early two thousands electronic group from the UK and they're amazing. It was really random because specifically "Garden" is pretty inspired by them. We were in London working at the studio that's like three hours outside of London, and they were randomly there at the studio. I was like, "What the fuck? This is crazy." And then I got to meet them, talked to them for a second, and that was really cool. I would say they're a big influence on this. I mean, other electronic acts, Ken Ishii. I like a lot of hard techno stuff. I mean, Daft Punk's first album Homework, I literally have studied the fuck out of that record. I'm obsessed with it, and I play remixes of that record every time. I always find a new remix that someone did in the nineties, and I'll play it every time I'm DJing. DJ Shadow was in a group for one album called Unkle, which is a trip hop kind of duo thing where they brought on a lot of artists like Thom Yorke from Radiohead to sing. That record Psyence Fiction really inspired me, honestly.

Sick. How important is it for you to continue creating all these compelling sounds and visuals as the album continues to roll out?

So I think it's going to be next year. I'm basically going to be working on the world of this all of next year. Even with Cat Heaven, I spent two years on that, and I basically worked on the world of that for the entire, maybe a year and a half after that record. I mean, in reality, all of 2018, I basically just promoted that record or did videos just kept working on it. And I think I'm going to do the same with this.

When I found out that you were putting out something new, I went on to Spotify and I got a notification that you had an album coming out. And literally, I think I scared my friends. I started freaking out, and they were like, "What?" And I was like, "You guys don't understand. Something crazy is happening right now." How has people's reaction been as you've been teasing the album and coming out with singles, and how has all of that been making you feel?

It's just like wow, because anyone who works with me will be the first one to tell you that the business side of this or the "We're trying to make a career," I am so not focused on that at all. I have an idea and I'm going to waste three years of my life on it. All I can do is make the best art I possibly can, or be like, "Hey, would 15-year-old me get inspired or be excited about this?" I've built my entire career off of that concept. If the money comes, or if the success comes based off of that, that's all. That doesn't even need to happen. As long as I can survive and try to execute ideas that I have, I think that's all that matters to me. So I guess with saying that, I think the thing that is the most beautiful about this whole thing is just I don't think this album has crazy buzz at all right now. I put out a song and a video and I'm like, "Oh, sick, a hundred thousand streams in the first week.” To me, that's good. Maybe the full record needs to come out for people to fully get it. I think the amazing thing is that I didn't really know if the fans from Cat Heaven would stay? Would they still check in? And to be honest with you, I think those are the main people. I even checked the backend of Spotify recently, and it was like, my fan base is 90%, 22, 23 years old. And I'm like, that's crazy.

Then that adds up!

Those kids from five years ago grew up, and those are the main, and almost only people listening to me, which is beautiful. I think that's amazing. That whole concept of some kids starting high school and now maybe are either graduating college or something like that where it's this huge life change. I do think this record will impact people in the ways that I was feeling when I started it, honestly. I really think it's going to hit in that way for people where they're going to be like, "Oh, Cat Heaven meant something to me at this time. I was going through this. I was becoming an adult," and then this record will be like, "Oh, I'm out of college. I had my first love maybe, and I lost that." I think the music's going to resonate in a big way with the people who stayed on board.

I feel like you touched on that more specifically in "Amberwood" where you are speaking about growing up. I'm excited for the whole thing to release and to see new people getting to experience your music.

Well, first off, I think this record has more for everyone, honestly, even than Cat Heaven, which is crazy. I think so many people are going to be like, this one's my favorite. Or this one's my favorite. Because it kind of goes over a lot of different sub genres or just tones through the record. I think that it's really a grower thing where people have to sit with the record for a second and the dust kind of has to clear a little bit.

Well, take it from me as somebody that was like, "oh my God, Cat Heaven's the best thing ever." And now also listening to this one, it's all that I've been talking about. I'm really excited for just the mass audience to be able to hear the album from beginning to end, because I really do think that it takes you on a journey and a deeper insight into your mindset. If they were fans of Cat Heaven, they're going to be fans of this one as well.

Yeah. Thank you.

Is there a message that you want your audience to take away from this album?

I think the main thing is just enjoy the moment and enjoy the smaller things in life. We're all in the big race or whatever to do something with our lives and make some sort of impact. But I think more now than ever, the moments spent with people you love or the things you care about matter so much because of how fast everything is. I think the other thing is don't give up hope. I think it's an optimistic record.

I feel like people will definitely take all of that, and you can hear it through your sound and the songs on this album. But, I guess I have one more question left. So I want to talk about plans for touring and performing, and if you have anything in the works.

I don't want to say it too much, but the first half of next year.

Sick so soon. And are you excited about it?

I mean, I've been dreaming about it. The last show I ever did was a fucking nightmare.

Really?

It was a festival show and nothing worked. The line on "Amberwood" where I say "I had dreams of playing Coachella" or whatever. I don't think Coachella's the end all be all for me, but obviously when I was a kid, I was like, "Oh, I want to play shows and everything." I actually had a dream of me playing Coachella, and it actually went terribly wrong. This was three years ago or something, and it was just like, oh, the mic doesn't work and you're trying to plug in your phone. I don't know if I'm crazy, but I feel like other artists have this dream where they're trying to perform, but the mic won't turn on.

It's like Grimes' set.

I literally had that where I had this festival gig at the end of 2019. It was my last show and nothing was working. We literally got the mic working in the last five minutes. I performed two songs, with no in-ears. I couldn't hear the track. I just performed, went to the crowd, sang it, and then left. And that was literally the last show I played. So I have that dangling over me, and I'm like, fuck that. I've always loved live shows for what I think I can do with it. I actually don't love going to see live music that much. I don't go to shows very often other than DJ stuff, because I just have to be a really big fan to be fully in it, or it has to be a really energetic show. Either going to go see ASAP Rocky where everyone's jumping— that's obviously really fun for me. Or I have to go see My Bloody Valentine, where I'm just kind of obsessed and mesmerized. I have so many ideas for what I think the live show could be. I've been thinking about it for five years, so it's going to be easy for me. I think as soon as this album's out, I'm going to start working on it.

I feel like everyone will be really, really excited. Especially people in New York. I feel like so many people will come out for that.

Music

You’ll Never Guess DJ_Dave’s Next Move

Angelina Hazzouri — Before we get into this new remix, how did you get started making music with code?

DJ_Dave — I got started when I was in college, actually. I was taking random classes, trying to figure out what I wanted to do after I had switched my major from fashion. I was doing a bit of basic web development coding, and I discovered that I really enjoyed it. So I ended up taking a class in live coding, and we learned Sonic Pi, which is a live coding environment that I've been using ever since. I knew right away that it was something I was really obsessed with.

I graduated into COVID, so I had a year to just hang around and figure it out, honestly. I had a job—I was fully going in another direction. I didn't fully accept this as my career fate until a year after that. And then I realized this is something I really love and something that other people seem to enjoy discovering with me. So I thought, let me just take a leap of faith and just do this going forward.

That's so cool. Did you play instruments before, or did you kind of just discover [making] music through coding?

I did, I grew up playing instruments. I would jump around—I would take lessons in one instrument for about a year and then would be like, “I want to play something else!”

I never really produced anything though—I just enjoyed music and then discovering live coding and was like, “Oh, this is a kind of production structure that I actually really like. Wow.” I feel like what's cool about this is it's obviously your art, but it's heavily centered around technology.

What is your relationship to technology and how has that played a part in everything?

My relationship to technology is honestly, like, so weird. [laughs]

Obviously, I love certain areas of technology, and I'm very much at this intersection of art and technology, but I just think that it can be such a daunting genre of things. New technologies are really intimidating. It's like a whole new entity to learn how to communicate with.

I think a lot of times, it can steer people in the wrong direction or make them excited about something. I've just always tried to take the functionality of certain technologies and tools at face value and be like, at its core, what can this do? And how does it fit into my life and my work? And I've just kind of gone from there. It's really hard for me to back a new technology, honestly. Really? Yeah. My relationship to technology is interesting. It literally feels like a relationship. [laughs] There are certain things that I like to compromise on and certain things that I win on. So it's, you know, figuring out where we fit together.

Yeah, that sounds like a relationship. It's interesting because so much of what you do is dependent on technology. For everyone else, I feel like there's this whole conversation about whether AI will take over our jobs—but you kind of embrace that.

Yeah. I mean, AI is [pauses]... there are a lot of really obvious dangers of it. Those are what I think of first when I think of AI. Like there are a lot of really bad use cases of AI that we're already seeing, but they’re at face value. It's a really useful tool when used in good ways—like when it's used for making art in a way that's not taking other people's. Using it for unique output. AI is also helpful when it’s used to better our practices in certain areas. For example, I'm collaborating with an AI artist for this “infinite remix” release, but that's really the only time I've dabbled in AI so far. So, it’s like, you know, I'm treading lightly.

I'm super interested to hear more about the infinite remix with Dadabots—I don't even know what to ask because I don't fully understand it. So what can you tell me about it?

That's like the most valid question ever. [laughs] I fully sat in a workshop with my two friends who made this and they explained everything about their process,and I’m still not totally sure how it works. But basically they are fine artists / musicians, and they’ve been developing their AI tools for years. They’re known for a live stream they’ve had running since 2018, which is possibly the longest running YouTube live stream ever and it’s constantly producing unique content.

Oh my God?

High level overview — their AI model is trained on what certain genres sound like, for example, the drum patterns or vocal melodies a genre would use. And so their live stream that’s been running for 6 years has been constantly spitting out a long, long version of a death metal song

Oh my God.

Yeah. I always thought they were super cool ever since we met on my university tour, and I knew I wanted to collaborate when we met. When it came time for Naive to come out, it seemed really right to collaborate with them, and I asked them, “What if you just use the same model that you have? What if you just give it the stems of my song “Naive” and we just start a live stream that remixes it for however long?”

That’s insane, I can’t wait to stream the remix. When “Naive" originally came out, you did the whole thing on Instagram making it look like your account got hacked, which was so sick.

Thank you.

I also feel like it's low-key a risk to make it look like your Instagram got hacked. What was the thinking behind that? Were you nervous at all that people were going to report your Instagram for being hacked?

Yes! Actually, I got my Instagram taken down for a little—it's so funny, dude—because yeah, I knew that there were risks associated. I was like, a lot of people are going to think this is real. I lost a few hundred followers, but I also gained a few hundred new ones. I just know that honestly, there's that element of shock value.

The whole concept was that I want people to genuinely question the origins of everything that I was about to put out for the next couple of weeks and question if it's safe, if it's me. I wanted to instill doubt in people about my motives or whose motives are behind all of it.

Never let them know your next move.

Never let them know my next move. I made sure I was really careful to drop hints as much as I could, because I knew it was going to be a puzzle—something that people could solve. It was actually so crazy because after I posted my first Instagram—the one that really got people—a couple of people in my Discord immediately solved the whole thing.

From one post? They know you too well.

I know, they immediately got it. They were like, “She's releasing a song called ‘Naive’ on August 29th.” It was crazy.

What do you think you'll do after this project with Dadabots? Do you think this will be a series?

After this phase, I'm going to be going into this phase of transparency and cybersecurity. I want to have cybersecurity, with a much more trustworthy vibe.

Because if my last release was all about being sketchy and mysterious and almost malicious, I want the next phase to be all about being transparent.Using technology only for good, having accessible products that people can interact with—that sort of thing.

There's obviously going to be music and then outside of that, there will be projects that have more of an honest identity, which I'm excited about.

That sounds so cool. It sounds like you're building a world, if that makes sense. I feel like what you do obviously transcends just music because it's not just music.

Yeah, it was with Josh [Kohno] and Sophia [Castillo] that we came up with this world-building idea. I've always been almost overwhelmed with the amount of things that I want to fit into my project because if I kept it to just music, I would literally be missing parts. I wouldn't be able to work with certain people that I want to, or I wouldn't be able to have this global perspective on things if I didn't expand it outside of music. So this just ended up being the perfect framework for me to include everyone that I wanted to.

This ended up being the solution, and it's been so perfect and fun.

Infinite Remix of ‘Naive’ by DJ_Dave and Sipper can be streamed here.

Music

Jacob Mühlrad: Where Classical Music Meets the Unexpected

November 15, 2024

Contemporary classical music often struggles to stay relevant, particularly in the U.S., where it's mostly confined to academic spaces. But Swedish composer Jacob Mühlrad is reshaping the genre and he sells out concert halls on his own in Stockholm.

Jacob Mühlrad’s versatility shines through his projects. In November, he premieres a symphony about the biosphere that will even travel to Tasmania. He’s also co-produced two tracks for rapper 070 Shake's new album and is set to release a joint single with her next year.

His work has been performed in prestigious venues like Carnegie Hall in New York and Suntory Hall in Tokyo, but his journey is anything but traditional. Jacob moves between two contrasting worlds: studio sessions with artists like 070 Shake and formal meetings with orchestras.

By Enzo Holdt
Photography by Mikael Jansson and Pierre Björk

Jacob’s drive stems from his family history. As the grandson of Holocaust survivors, he grew up with a deep awareness of life’s fragility. “I’ve always felt my life has to mean something,” he reflects.

His collaboration with 070 Shake highlights his ability to connect across genres. The two first met late at night in artist Alexander Wessely’s studio. Over Hennessy and music talk, they bonded instantly. Their creative process, whether at former ABBA artist Benny Andersson’s studio or in Stockholm, is marked by an unspoken understanding.

Songs like Sin and Blood On My Hands grew from this connection. “She started singing, and we just knew where the other was going,” says Mühlrad. Moments like Shake’s impromptu lyrics became defining features of their work together.

For Jacob Mühlrad, crossing boundaries isn’t just a creative choice—it’s a necessity. Balancing classical and contemporary, he proves it’s possible to bridge musical worlds without losing oneself.