As a gift for Leila Spilman's birthday, Torbjørn Rødland photographed her and her friends wearing clothing Spilman made under her own unestablished label LSCO. Also included are a Thom Browne jacket and Saint Laurent dress.
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For more of Marie Tomanova, see her past office feature, On Loss and Location.
Your own work tends be very disciplined and structured, especially your latest project with Utility Pro. This is very different, what drew you to working with Mint&Serf?
AS I’ve known these two since my early days in NYC. At that time I was still an active graffiti writer myself. When I first came to NYC 12 years ago, I naturally merged towards a specific scene of downtown and between others Mint & Serf were hanging around. There’s definitely an affinity and common background with them and this shoot felt more like a bunch of bright minded artists converged in a photo studio. Jules Kim, my partner, was also adding her touch. Photography is a disciplined medium, you’re right. In much of my production there is a formal approach that has a saddle extreme vein. My shoots don’t fall on established stereotypes.
How are your photos a reflection of how you see the world?
AS My photography has a strong link with reality. Foremost it is a non-stage form of documentation, and so a fair, yet filtered, view or reality.
If you weren’t a photographer what would you be doing?
AS [I would be a] painter, perhaps. I used to draw like a mad dog till I shifted on photography cause I was shocked by the immediate result.
Do you prefer New York or Italy?
AS It’s nice to have both. One is the antithesis of the other one. In Italy you can’t get access to food 24/7 like here in NY, but you can definitely have better food.
What are you listening to right now?
AS Antonello Venditti. Reminds me my youth in Rome.
What is next for Alessandro Simonetti?
AS Naples in South Italy. I’m going to shoot gypsies and local folks down there. It will be HOT!
Your work is very raw and disobedient. Do you actually care about how people perceive your work?
Mint Some of our previous work is reactionary to common misperceptions and realities about graffiti and painting. With Support, Therapy and Instability we tried to infuse and charge the work as much as we could, in hopes that it [the charge] penetrates the viewer. I think the work is unresolved, if the intent and the charge is not transferred to the audience. With silk as a medium, we would like to transcend and reframe some of our previous work around new ideas and dialogues.
Serf I tend to care about perception of others in regard to my work because there is always something to be learned. If it's positive or negative, if I'm able to take something from it and improve upon what I'm working on, whether that's physically or conceptually, I think it's a positive and can only enhance my work.
Have either of you ever participated in KINBAKU?
Mint Metaphorically yes, plenty of times. In actuality no, not yet.
Serf If you consider silver handcuffs from police officers [as] taking part, then yes. But no I haven't taken part, although I'm definitely interested in it. The embrace of the rope intrigues me. It seems very… I want to say, familiar... hugging, embracing, warm. I see it happening in the near future.
Korupted is a nod to Araki’s KINBAKU series which office covered as well in our last issue. What do you think draws people to punishment vs. gratification?
Mint I think Korupted is a nod to Araki, as well as John Willie and Kinbaku art form in general. Much of sex can be viewed in terms of domination and ultimate gratification that it is easy for people to relate to it. Many things in our lives are set in opposition, while some of the most dangerous things in life are also the most gratifying. The forbidden fruit per se. Korupted is also a celebration of sexuality and freedom of expression.
Serf I don't know… why one without the other? I mean, why can't punishment be gratifying? There is something to be said for mistakes, and learning from them as well as overcoming obstacles that could be interpreted as punishing, in order to reach the next level in certain projects or endeavors.
Do you think using multiple colors as opposed to just one (like the blue theme used by ARAKI) conveys the message of hectic or frowned upon behavior?
Serf The initial goal of those paintings was to convey disgust for the status quo of what qualified paintings as ‘hot’ in the market at the time. We were attempting to drive as far away as possible while still retaining a semblance of a true to life/form action painting since we were living that action in the streets. As some would say, we were keeping it official in the studio. We did not want to pay homage by reproducing redundant looking works. Our paintings are based on real life mark making.
Mint Chaos is the composition.
Will you be wearing your silks this winter?
Serf I'm wearing silk every day.
Mint I only sleep in silk.
Why did you tap Alessandro Simonetti for Korupted?
Mint We have a common language and understanding, because of our similar backgrounds as vandals. I think Alessandro's utilitarian approach shifts the conversation away from the past and toward a new and more contemporary framework. His ability to juxtapose aesthetics is seamless and brilliant. I have been a big fan of his work for a while now. There is an identifiable style to his work that I admire.
Serf He comes from a graffiti background. Growing up in Italy, he was a highly regarded graffiti painter, did lots of trains. We were introduced through a great mutual friend of ours, Jules Kim (BiJules), an amazing jewelry designer.
Is New York the graffiti capital of the world?
Serf I heard Berlin is the graffiti capital of the world, but New York is probably the mecca.
Mint I don’t know if there is another city that produces as much of illegal graffiti as New York City does, although there has been a concentrated effort to eradicate it, it has been faced with reactionary force of writers, who keep producing and covering the city with graffiti year after year. The city should be asking, ‘why do teenagers get into vandalism in the first place?’ If you break it down, we all share this intrinsic quality that is connected to our subconscious eagerness to understand the meaning of our existence. It of course manifests itself in a very conscious and impulsive activity.
Graffiti is considered illicit in most parts of the world. Do you consider yourselves vandals?
Mint Well, we are most definitely not muralists. Defacing private property is an aesthetic choice, as much as it is an impulsive action with elements of a performative dance. If that constitutes that I am a vandal, then be it.
Serf No, not really. I don't really believe in ownership, property, in that manner. I don't consider it vandalism. Graffiti is embedded in hip-hop and rock.
What are you both currently listening to right now?
Mint I’ve been tuning into The Lot Radio to listen to Dog Bites Girl. Also Show Me The Body and Yung Thug been in heavy rotation.
Serf Right now I'm listening to a lot of Arthur Russell. OG downtown New York composer.
You’ve both been working together for a long time. Do you ever need breaks away from each other?
Mint Taking breaks are key to a long lasting partnership.
What is next for Mint & Serf?
Mint We have a new mix tape and a line of luxury soaps in the works...
"What we do on stage with each other is an expression of a sexual power exchange," explains the band's lead singer, Gnarly. Their latest video, premiering exclusively on office, does however contend with a suicide fetish.
When model, fashion designer, and now filmmaker Bradley Soileau approached the band about his idea for the upcoming "Balaclava" video, they unsurprisingly agreed to the challenge. "When I heard the concept I was hyped," recalls Gnarly. "That song is really intense for me. I was in a fucked up place mentally and on a hot one when I wrote and recorded it so it was heavy to step back into that mind state and recreate that feeling. After seeing the final product I feel we really accomplished that and show you the darker of side of devastation."
Watch the video below, and read on as Brad and Gnarly talk about their collaboration.
How'd you two meet?
BRADLEY SOILEAU—I honestly don’t fully remember. I had befriended Jean and Eaddy of Ho99o9 and I went to a house show they had and I think that’s how I met Gnarly. We would see each other out at parties and afters and became friends.
Gnarly, how long have you been making music like this?
GNARLY—I started making music six years ago. From drunk screaming freestyles in friends’ kitchens at 3am to a thrash band with my brother called The Plastic Faced Mannequins. It's always been all over the place. I've never limited anything we've done to one genre or style. When we started Kate Mo$$ we had no plan for the direction of the project. We just cranked shit out. The songs of mine that are described as rap were made in the same time period as “Balaclava.” A lot of our new music is more noisey and faster but those elements of hip-hop are still there. Just because we're screaming doesn't mean there aren’t bars in these tracks. You may not be able to make it out as easily but a lot of the songs are still very lyrical. At the same time, it’s always evolving, as are we. It's gotten to a much heavier place; that’s just us holding a mirror to our lives. Welcome to the shit show.
Has there always been such a theatrical element to your performances?
G—Yes, always. First show we ever played as Kate Mo$$ we set up a laptop on the lower back of a girl on all fours wearing a tracksuit and a balaclava on top of a dirty carpet we found backstage. Thus the human table was born and we've continued to push the line each show. When I brought Skuz into the band last year, it became something else. We've been able to push the circles of music and art together. It's been fun watching them collide. The night always creates itself. Nothing's ever planned or contrived we just go out there and do what we do.
How far is too far when it comes to what you act out on stage? Is there a line?
G—The line is what you make it, and we've made it clear we're here to push it. I want to bring the element of danger back to music. We're not promoting violence or self harm in any manner but at the same time these are real emotions and real feelings and it's okay to feel that way. It's okay to be angry; we're pissed off too. When you come to one of our live performances you get to step into our world, and I feel that's a real heavy trip for people. Some come back and some don't.
Do you think it’s okay to choke Skuz? It'd be cool to have her stomping on you or a dude on stage as well—reciprocate the violence a bit.
G—I mean, is it okay to choke your spouse in the bedroom during the heat of passion, if he or she is okay with it? That's basically all we're doing; we're just doing it on stage, which I think makes some people uncomfortable. But let's just be clear, what Skuz and I do on stage is 100% consensual, handled with the utmost respect and is completely mutual as far as the give and take of violence goes. Some people are unaware but at a lot of the shows it's actually Skuz who is taking out her frustrations on me and I am the one being submissive. In a sense, Skuz and I are both sadists and masochists, if you want to call us that. What we do on stage with each other is an expression of a sexual power exchange. So yeah, in my mind, we aren't doing anything wrong. And we hope people aren't missing the point either, because at the end of the day this is all about artistic expression, sexual freedom and really not giving a fuck about what other people think. I fuckin' love it when Skuz reciprocates the violence. I'd actually love to see her stab a dude in the nuts on stage if the opportunity arose and it was consensual. But that's just me.
What are your thoughts on GG Allin's performances?
G—He was the best to do it. When VVTGB (Viciouc Venom the Gerber Baby) showed me GG as a teen it completely changed the way I looked at music and performance. I was hooked. That definitely stuck with me when we started making music. When people call us shit like the next GG Allin, it's always interesting. He was one of kind — often imitated, but never emulated. He openly talked about sex with 13 year-old-boys, girls, and even animals and raped women at his show. We'll never be that. Although the comparison is flattering. I wish he would have murked himself on stage as promised instead of going out like a junkie, but hey that's life right? I consider GG my dad ... Rest in piss pops.
Just to be clear, you seem to be really championing GG's behavior. What are your thoughts on female abuse, like rape?
G—Rape or nonconsenual sex and/or violence against women is unacceptable under any circumstances, period. End of statement. Like I mentioned earlier, despite comparisons, we are not El Duce and the Mentors. We're not GG Allin and teh Murder Junkies. We are Kate fucking Mo$$ and we don't condone that kinda shit whatsoever. If you're a rapist, please come to one of our shows. We'll be sure to show you first hand how we deal with your kind.
What's the song Balaclava about?
G—The song is about my mental state — at the darkest, deepest depths of depression, with ribs showin’ and ready to say to fuck it all. The pure anger you feel scrambling for air and the sounds of your nails crackling on the hardwood as you pull yourself out of the abyss — bruised and bloody, but better. It’s the moment you realize it's you versus them and your body starts shaking from your insides out, ready for war. It's about hunger and being willing to do what you must to eat. When life pushes you, push that mother fucker back and set it off. It's about fighting back.
Bradley, you mentioned before that The Heaven’s Gate Death Cult led you to the idea for the video. Tell me about them.
BS—[Laughs] Honestly that was just an aesthetic thing. I think their suicide was beautifully art directed. Heaven’s Gate was a cult based in California — in my work I like to touch base on things from California to pay my respects to the state I get inspiration from. The cult believed in aliens and had a mass suicide because they thought it would get them onto an alien spaceship that was following a comet. They had a lot of Star Trek references in their religion and shit. And in the end 39 members took phenobarbital with vodka, put bags over their heads and covered their faces and torsos with purple fabric. They were all in matching black outfits with black-and-white Nike shoes. The first time I saw photos I thought it was perfect and I wanted to reference it at the end. I love music videos that aren’t so literal and maybe have nothing to do with the song; they have narratives of their own.
In mainstream music, do you think depression is glorified?
BS—Joy Division never toured in America and look at how huge they are. They’re an incredibly talented band but don’t you think that some of that success comes from Ian Curtis’ suicide? It’s just my opinion, but you don’t think some of that success and fame is partly because of people’s gross obsession with death and suicide?! Also let’s look at other genres of music. Since rap is the new mainstream/pop, everyone listens to it and it speaks to a broad group of people. And they talk about taking Xanax and being sad too.
What else did you research that led you to the idea for the video?
BS—Nothing really. I just think America is obsessed with sex and death. And I’m obsessed with sex and death and masturbation and I think dicks are hilarious and I’m just a weirdo that likes weird sick shit. In art and music people like to be shocked. Kate Mo$$ has a great performance-art element to their live shows and I wanted to match that.
Gnarly, what was it like to act out suicide in the video?
G—It was pretty heavy. To step back into that mind state was a trip for me. Me and Bradley are very similar in the way we create. I've looked up to his work for a while now so when we decided to collaborate on this video I knew it was gonna push the boundaries of what you see on a day-to-day basis. I got a little too into it at one point during shooting; took a shot of booze, and snapped out of it. It was a small group — like 5 of us on the scene of the video — and I trusted them with the vision just as they trusted mine.
I heard you almost died?
G—Yeah … I mean by no means are any of us professionals or have any financial backing for this. So we made the video happen with what we had. I was very adamant about the noosing being as real as possible, so we pushed it as far as we could. At the point of going unconscious, the last thing I could remember was how much better the song sounded to me at that moment. Then I just went deeper and deeper into the song, then black. Came to with a group of concerned friends circled around me like, “Shit dude. We almost killed you.” Then we did another take. It was fun.
Bradley, how long have you been making films/videos?
BS—Honestly this is the first time I’ve worked on a film where it was my idea and I had full control of everything. I’ve done a few films when I was working with 424 on Fairfax and then I’ve worked on a few things for my brand, Blackfist. But I’ve taken a break from fashion for a few seasons to learn more about film and photography. I want to have deeper understanding of what I’m trying to say with my brand on a visual level.
Do you guys have plans to work together again in the future?
BS—Yeah I’m definitely part of the gang. I’m gonna be helping with larger-scale performance-art ideas and pushing the boundaries with what a punk show can be and how it can be packaged and presented to the world. It doesn’t just have to be small venues and alleyways. It has to be that but I also like the idea of putting these performances in museums and pissing on people’s opinions of what punk should and shouldn’t be.
What's next for Kate Mo$$?
G—We just got back from a small East Coast run in August and we're already trying to go back. We're working with our family Ho99o9 on a U.S. tour for next year. As for the rest of this year we are releasing a mixtape and wrapping up the last songs on our full-length album. We have a lot of content that we're finally ready to release and share with you all. If you thought we were loud before, just know we're only getting started ... Abandoned House Music is here and we came to catch wreck.
