Introducing DAISY WORLD

Not only is she a singer debuting her own solo projects, but she is the frontwoman of her own band and also designs her own clothing which can be seen being worn by Benny Blanco and Addison Rae. While speaking to her, we get a personal insight as to who she is as a person and as a multifaceted artist. Through continuous confidence boosts, having opportunities to work with and learn from other artists, and the ability to never take no for an answer, there is nothing that DAISY WORLD isn’t set out to accomplish.

Read our exclusive interview below.

First off, what's going on? What are you up to? Anything exciting?

So many exciting things. First of all, this is exciting for me. Okay, I can say it, because it's gonna come out on Friday. So I just released my first two solo songs and I made a very short acoustic version on my Instagram, just literally a video from my phone of me playing one of the songs. And now we're going to be kind of producing a better live version of “SUNDOWN”. We're doing that tonight, just me and my producer Albert. We're gonna turn my living room basically into a beautiful place and we're just gonna film just a live cut of me playing the song on the piano. I'm really excited about that.

That sounds so great. I love acoustic versions of songs, too. I mean, I listened to both of your songs and they are so beautiful, but I'm really excited for what the acoustic versions are gonna sound like

It's fun because I get to kind of do it in a different way. Like, I get to improvise different moments and so it ends up kind of being that the song actually feels completely different than the studio version. So I feel like people are gonna like to have both options. We're gonna give the people options!

Give the people what they want. So tell us who is DAISY WORLD?

I am DAISY WORLD! I'm Daisy, obviously, but for me what DAISY WORLD is, is it's almost all the pieces of me getting to kind of be under one umbrella. I think that it's really cool that DAISY WORLD is a musician, DAISY WORLD is a featured artist, DAISY WORLD is a brand. I have so many ideas for other things that DAISY WORLD could be. Like, I want to be hosting events, and the events will be called DAISY WORLD. Eventually, one day, I want to have a store, and we'll call that DAISY WORLD too. But it's really just like every single piece of me and all the things that I want to do in one world.

So a couple of days ago, you released your first two singles. What has that been like? Especially releasing it under your own persona, and not being on a feature or in your band, but just as you?

It felt really freeing because it's something that I've just wanted to do for so long. I love working with my band so much and I love working with and collaborating with all these other people. But I always had a piece of me that was wondering, like, 'What would it be like if I just did exactly what was in my brain?' And that was something that always kind of scared me because I don't know, I think that it's easier to be leaning on other people. Asking people like, 'Do you think this is good? Do you think this is right? Am I doing a good job?' This time, I just wanted to see what my brain can do and not be afraid of the outcome of it. Not be afraid if other people like it or what? I didn't really ask anyone's opinion. It was just me and Albert working together. So it was kind of scary, but at the same time, it felt very freeing to just be able to be like, 'I'm going to try this thing and I'm not going to be scared of it anymore. I'm just gonna do it.' Literally, like release it before I can stop myself. I feel like my creativity is flowing so much easier now just because I'm trusting myself in a way that I never had before.

Sort of just staying authentic to yourself is what I feel really transcends people, especially in the creative industry. Do you think having collaborated with different artists has helped you find your own independent voice?

Completely. I think that number one, just when you step into a room with another person, no matter who they are, and you collaborate with them, you learn from them. You're taking pieces of that session, and you're able to incorporate it into the way that you work by yourself. On top of it, I was working with people that I respect so much. I respect their art, their music, and their creativity so much that it just kind of gassed me up to be like, 'damn this person fucks with me? Like, why don't I fuck with myself?' You know what I mean? Obviously, I'm taking pieces of how they do songwriting, and what their creative process is like, but on top of that my confidence is just being so bolstered by the fact that these are people that I love, and I respect so much.

So kind of speaking to you on just people that you've collaborated with, you're on Tyler's new album, what was it like working with him?

It was so amazing. It's something that was a life goal of mine. I always had a feeling that it was gonna happen eventually, just because we've known each other for so long. He's been such a supporter of my music for so long that I was like, 'okay, it's gonna happen one day.' No part of me thought it was gonna happen this early in my career. So that was just insane. The whole thing was insane. The session was amazing and I felt like it was one of the first times that I really let myself go. I can be quite a perfectionist, especially if I'm in front of a person who I respect so much. Before I started really singing in the session, I was thinking in my head, 'okay, I need to write a melody in my brain before I say it out loud because I don't want to fuck up, and make a fool of myself.' But then I literally just like went in the booth and I was just improvising and singing all these weird rhythms and these weird sounds, and I just like, let myself do my fucking thing. That felt so cool. Especially because he appreciated that side of me as well, like the non-perfectionist side. I feel like that session really boosted my confidence, and made me feel like, 'oh, shit, I can be weird. I can do the weird shit that I want to do and people aren't gonna judge me for it. Actually, they might like it.' It was really amazing and he's obviously so talented. He's just so fun to be around. He's so funny. It was amazing.

I also saw that you were able to perform with him live and I know because of COVID, shows are slowly sort of starting to happen again. So what was that like performing? Not only just coming out of the quarantine, but also just the energy of the live crowd, and with him, how was that?

It was amazing. He literally hit me the morning of, I had no idea. He texted me just being like, 'Hey what are you doing later?' Not like, 'Hey, Daisy, we're performing later, here's what you need to do.'

He was like, 'WYD? What are you doing?'

Literally and so it came out of nowhere. That I think was good, or else I would have been nervous for days. But yeah, it was my first performance since like, February 2020. And I'm a performer, I love performing. We do it all the time. My favorite part about making music is performing. I was so caught up in the chaos of it all and the excitement that I kind of forgot like, 'whoa, this is my first performance in a really long time.' It was just so fun and it felt amazing. It felt so good to be back on stage and I love the Roxy. One of my favorite shows that I ever played was at the Roxy so it was super reminiscent of that. It just reminded me how much I love performing and to get to be on stage with him is like, again, a fucking dream. It just felt good to be singing again.

It's just the energy.

Like so intense, especially because people have been inside. I think that was the first show I've been to and so people were just so happy and I was so happy and I hope that he was happy.

So, you're also in the band on top of doing your own solo projects and stuff. Is the process of making music with your band different versus just making singles on your own? What's the process like juggling both of them?

Literally couldn't be more different at all. First of all, trying to organize a time to get four people in a room together is incredibly hard. Where with me and Albert, we're just working every day. So already that is different, just the organization of it. I find that with the band we write in a live setting, or when I'm working with Albert, it's very much a studio vibe and it's a lot more experimental. I feel like I can just shout out and be like, 'oh, I want to put this voice note here.' There's just more freedom for me because I don't have to check in with everyone to be like, 'hey, do you want to do this? Okay.' I can just be like, 'here are all my crazy ideas and we can do them all.' Just because it's my solo project I can do whatever I want and that's really cool. With the band, it's very much like we're arranging things in this crazy way and it's very much more kind of musical. In the band, everyone is really playing the shit out of their instruments. And with me, everything is very much focused on the songwriting and the vocals. So it's super different, but both of them are super fulfilling, in crazy, different ways.

I suppose kind of juggling between the two, it must be more freeing to be able to say what you want to say without having to check in with other people.

Totally and like I said, I didn't think that I could do that. I really didn't feel that I had the agency to be in control in that way. So it also is just an incredible feeling. Also, just as a woman in the industry, to be like, 'damn, I can do this, I can feel proud of myself in this way, and I can be in control in this way.' And that feels incredible.

Having that in you to sort of sit down and say, 'This is what I'm going to do. I'm going to produce my own work how I want to, and I'm just gonna let it fly and let it be.'

It does make it scarier because it's just me. If it's bad, it's my fault, but it also just feels really cool. It's been a long time coming. I can also just recognize that I'm at such a different point in my creativity and in my career, where I can finally be like, 'yes, I can fucking do this. And I'm proud of it. People like it.'

Can you walk us through sort of your writing process of making both of the songs you released?

Both of those songs were quite old, actually and by old, I mean, maybe a year old. I write mostly just by myself, alone in a dark room with my piano. Especially “SUNDOWN” — I literally wrote that song when I was in that moment. The song is about, you know, the daytime ends, the distractions are gone, then it's nighttime, and I'm just fucking sad. I literally wrote it when I was having that experience. “SIX TWO” as well, I kind of just wrote it in a moment where I was feeling super unwanted and like I was never gonna find love and it's probably my fault. It all just came out at the moment that I was feeling it. I made these demos for them on my phone with all these harmonies and I just loved the demos so much. I always was worried that I wasn't going to be able to match the demo just because I recorded it when I was feeling it and that shit you can't really replicate. Maybe one day I'll release the demo, we'll see.

Me and Albert have been friends for a long time and we're driving to the beach one day, and I'm talking about how I really need to find a producer. I just want to find a guy who will come over every day and we'll just make music and we'll work on my solo stuff. And he was like, 'hey, I'm here.' And I was like, 'oh shit,' because I always thought of him as an artist and not as a producer. So then we literally set up a studio in my house, he came over, and it all just happened really naturally. He found this crazy drum loop, which is the part right in the middle, and that shit changed the whole song and I wrote a whole new part of it. It just happened really easily. “SIX TWO” as well, I think we did that in a day. The vibe in the room was just right and we work so fucking well together. He's so talented and I can be like, 'hey, can you do this weird thing to this vocal part?' And he's like, 'yeah, it's done.' I don't fuck with computers. I don't want to touch a computer. So it's perfect. We did it really fast. We recorded both of those songs in like, a month and a half.

It's one of those things too where if things are meant to be if it flows like water, and from the sound of it, it just all seems to kind of flow. It all happened one after another to get to this point right now.

It was like a happy accident, all of it.

Yeah, the best things are.

It also makes me feel like it was the right time. You know what I mean? Like life was just like, here it is. You've been wanting to do this thing forever and it's falling in your lap so roll with it. There was just so much serendipity that it made me feel so much more confident in the fact that I was doing it because I was like life is trying to tell me something.

So you also hand paint garments, clothes and denim and all of that stuff. So how does fashion play a role with you as a musician and as an artist? Who are your biggest inspirations?

It's actually funny because DAISY WORLD was the name of my brand before it was my artist name. Which I think is cool. The second I realized like, 'Oh, shit, that could be my artist name,' everything fell into place and I could see the whole trajectory of it. But it kind of started as an accident. Inspiration-wise, my mom is like the OG denim, Levi's painter of Los Angeles. She had a whole business of it in the 80s and the 90s and she literally stopped doing it because I was born. So I'm taking over the family business, basically.

I painted a pair of jeans just because I wanted to just for fun and my manager Pat posted it on his Instagram. Immediately, Benny Blanco messaged me and was like, 'hey, can you make me some custom jeans?' And I was like, 'Sure, sure. Yeah, I can do that.' Then it just became my business literally because of him, which I don't think he understands. I was calling it DAISY WORLD because that was just the name of my Depop store. So I was like, 'okay, we can call this DAISY WORLD too.' Then it became this whole thing, and I love doing it so much. I've always loved painting. I'm not very good at painting, so I can always just kind of paint little cartoony things and now I just paint them on the clothes and it's so fun. I think it's so cool for people to have this thing that I'm literally touching. You know what I mean? Like slaving over it for days painting with a tiny paintbrush, hurting my eyes because I'm focusing so much, and then they have it and they get to wear it forever. It's like when I get a tattoo I'm always like, 'Oh that's crazy for the tattoo artist that like now this thing is on me forever.' I mean it's very different.

I mean no, it's your art form!

I love wearing my own clothes so much it brings me so much joy. Just to have these little pants with all this little cute shit all over it and I think that brings other people joy too. I have no idea where the brand is gonna go. Right now I have some merch that I make for my music and then I have all these custom-painted clothes, but I just feel like the options are limitless. I'm really excited about where this brand can go because obviously, I can't be hand painting huge quantities.

Yeah, no, that's definitely tough. I know someone who also paints, and it's just the amount of hours and hours that it takes to even get one garment done. So props to you guys, because that stuff is not easy to do and it's so meticulous and so many hours go into that.

Totally, and sometimes I'm literally like, 'I don't want to paint more strawberries,' but other days, I'm like, 'I can't wait to paint a strawberry!'

So who would you say are your inspirations musically?

I really think it's everything that I have listened to. I really, really, really love Carole King and 70s ballads. I feel like that's really prominent in my work. I love Todd Rundgren and I love Carole King and all of these classic ballad people. But I also primarily listen to hip-hop music. I think that rap is the greatest gift anyone could give to the world. I'm writing some classic ass ballads, but just that are super informed by the rhythm and flow of rap music. So I feel like it's these two worlds that I come from just combining and coming together. I love Smino, you know, fucking blows my mind every time I listen to his music. I also love Anderson .Paak and the way that he uses backup vocals. I think he's this ridiculous songwriter, like that shit is unreal. I love Amy Winehouse, too, just because everything about her is just so genuine. When I listen to her music, I can really feel like she's writing from her own experience and that's something that I do as well. I just think that that's so beautiful and so open and honest. Obviously, she's like the best fucking singer in the world. I also love SZA so much and I feel like you are kind of tumbling through her songs. There's no real structure. She's kind of flowing and I feel like I write in that same way too. Everyone really inspires me. Especially also going to live shows, I think that inspires me maybe the most of anything.

There's no greater intimate feeling than being in a shared space where everybody's enjoying the same music as you.

I played my first music festival in 2019. I played Flog Gnaw, and the crowd was massive and that shit is so sick. But my favorite shit ever is playing at a venue like the Roxy. It's like I'm literally looking people in their eyes and I can see everyone and I can touch them. I will also play to as many people as you want me to. I'm ready and I really want that, but I don't think I will ever stop playing to small intimate crowds. There's nothing that feels better than that.

No, I agree with you. I don't think so either. So what's next for DAISY WORLD? What can we be expecting to see from you in the near future?

So much, so much. I'm working my ass off right now and I'm fucking loving it. I just want to put out as much content as possible just because I really feel like I finally have the freedom to do whatever the fuck I want. There's gonna be this live video, we're working on an EP, I'm working on a small documentary music video. I'm working on so much more clothing and so much more merch. Like just so much stuff like I'm not gonna stop. I want to throw these parties and these pop-up shops. You can expect a lot, but most imminent I would say is this live acoustic video, this documentary music video, and this EP. Also, I want to put out a Christmas song. I'm gonna do that too.

It's so inspiring to speak to you and just hear your game plans. They're not something that you're just distantly thinking about in the future, but you have the tenacity, you have the courage and the confidence to seek all of these through and it's really admirable.

Thank you, it's really just about fucking wanting it. You know what I mean? And loving what you're doing. I'm more than happy to go to the studio every single day and literally be singing and writing music for the entire day, while also painting while also working with my band, while also filming this music video documentary. I feel so happy right now and so content really just because I'm working so hard. I'm working all the time. I have the ability to make all these things that I want to make now.

Is there anything else that you want to say?

I want the people to know that I want to connect with them. I want to talk to them. I want them to hear my music and relate to it and I just want to make people feel good, period. That's what I'm here for. I want to make them smile. I want to make them dance. And I'm going to make so much shit that I hope is going to make them happy.

Fashion

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Fashion

After 30 years and over 100 cult fragrances, COMME DES GARÇONS PARFUMS 1994–2025 BY SIMONETT & BAER launches this month

December 17, 2024

“I have to add that the topic is, of course, an irrational one, because it's not art and it's not fashion. It has to do with scent, which is something in the air,” explains Dino Simonett, renowned art-book maker and designer/publisher of the new COMME des GARÇONS x SIMONETT & BAER book, which details 30 years of CDG perfumes.

“The moment you smell something is irrational,” he continues. “This book transports you and brings you to the idea behind the perfumes. People have gotten thousands of art catalogues from me, but this fucking perfume thing really drives people a little bit crazy, you know? Because everybody has this bottle; and that bottle smells like this on them; and this bottle I need; and all the memories and everything. I like it a lot that we made this.”

As fans and family of the world’s coolest brand prepared to gather at Dover Street Parfums Market in Paris to celebrate the launch of the book, our Editor-At-Large Paige Silveria shared some coffee and cigarettes with Simonett to discuss his wild trajectory, making books with Joseph Beuys and Tilda Swinton early on, and the importance of nonconformal thinking.

By Paige Silveria

This fucking perfume thing really drives people a little bit crazy.

Paige Silveria: Tell me about yourself. You make books.

Dino Simonett: My books are my art. Each book might be a painting or sculpture. And you should not do the same sculpture all the time. When you hike somewhere, you never should go the same way back home — this is something my mother taught me when I was young. In the same way, it's boring to make the same stuff all the time. So I try to find a way to invent my own language.

PS: This book you’ve made is really beautiful.

DS: It’s hyperrealistic larger-than-life images of boxes and flacons in an endless row presented on paper the thickness of a children’s book.

PS: I loved how it said in the press release that you woke up one Sunday morning and the idea for the book suddenly came to you.

DS: The backstory is that Remo Hallauer [COO of COMME des GARÇONS International] is a true book lover. We met at the Offprint book fair in Paris. And one day, shortly after peak COVID, this email came from him asking if I’d think about a possible collaboration with one of the young stars here — and no hard feelings, but it didn’t work out. So then, as it is in life, which is the essential thing, you have to have an idea. And most of the time, they’re not good enough. You have to have another and another and then you go, Ah ha! Perfume.

PS: And you’d already been pretty familiar with their fragrances?

DS: I’ve known this stuff since the beginning. I wore the first perfume they created. It was part of my life all the time, and I thought, It's so funny. There’s a connection with how I make the books: like two, three books a year, all collaborations and each is different. Just like their perfumes. So I immediately texted Remo.

PS: And what perfect timing, with the 30-year anniversary.

DS: Yes, but this was two years ago or so. I hadn’t had the jubilee in mind. It might not look like much, but there was a lot of work to do.

PS: Many of the advertisements and images weren’t archived, physically or digitally, right? You had to search all over for a good portion of the material?

DS: Well we also had to wait for the official deal to go through in the beginning. Adrian Joffe [President of COMME des GARÇONS International and Dover Street Market International] wanted to do it but he didn’t have the mind space at the time; they were about to open the Dover Street Market here in Paris. So we were on our own for a bit, developing the project from zero. We looked all over the Internet and tried to create the chronology. I had a young guy helping me. He kept reminding me to be patient and to continue to work on growing the book. The door was open, but we had to wait in front of the next room. So we took little steps to prepare ourselves. And stuff slowly worked out.

PS: And thank God for the Internet.

DS: Yes, because as you mentioned, there was no archive. We thought surely they’d have something in the basement. But no, that didn’t exist. At one point they sent us a list of all the perfumes so we had a clear checklist to manage. I had to become an expert.

PS: There are so many, over 100?

DS: Yeah, and at one point the CDG team was activated. It was like a machine and in the spring suddenly a load of stuff was coming. First we had to grow the grapes, then make the wine and then the grappa. And at the end, it's a really strong grappa. And so things came together, and then one day Adrian said, “All is fine, but Rei [Kawakubo] must now also approve it. This is how the system works.” But nobody had told me! So Remo met with Rei to show her the book.

PS: That’s a bit of pressure!

DS: She could have said no and we’d have to throw everything in the garbage, two years of work. There was indeed a little bit of pressure. But it was fine. She liked the book. Then at the end of this summer we met again and they asked if they could have some of the finished copies on 20 November in Tokyo. I said, “I’m sorry, what?” He was thinking that the book was finished, you know? I told him we still needed a lot of material to finish it. Sometimes it's nice though to have this pressure. It's motivating and thrilling when you finally accomplish it all.

PS: Let’s go back. How did your upbringing inform who you are?

DS: It has to do with nonconformal thinking. Most people think the same. And we’re constantly pressured as well, by everything around us to conform. You have to really fight to keep your head and so I had this upbringing with this rather eccentric mother who was absolutely nonconformistic in every way. She was resolute. Why should we follow the path of the masses? It was never my thing. Voilà.

PS: How were you in school?

DS: I was not so good at school. I was only skateboarding at that time. I was on the Swiss National Team. I even was here in Paris at a European championship when I was 15 at the Trocadero. And my mother said, “You are not going to school anymore. You need an apprenticeship. It makes no sense to send you to school any longer.” I was independent and had my first salary at 16.

PS: What were you doing?

DS: I was a carpenter making tables, chairs, all that stuff. All my friends went to high school with like 16-week holidays, while I had only four. And so it was really, really tough shit for a 16 year old. But I learned two important things. The first one was discipline; seven o'clock each day it started and lasted nine hours. And the second thing was precision; you have to do things right. People always said to me that the apprenticeship was good as I’d really use it for the rest of my life. And I always thought that was such bullshit. But actually, it's kind of true. And so anyways, the moment I finished my apprenticeship, the very last day of the last test, I went on the Interrail for one month and never went back to a carpenter shop.

PS: What’d you do after?

DS: I wrote a letter to this very super famous music guy, Claude Nobs who was organizing the Montreux Jazz Festival in Switzerland, telling him I’d like to work there that summer. I mentioned that I’d just finished my apprenticeship for carpentry. He phoned me back immediately after getting the letter. He said, “Oh you’re a carpenter? You can come right now.” He was renovating his apartment in Montreux. So I stayed and worked there alone while he was up at his chalet. I felt like Kevin McCallister from Home Alone in this completely furnished apartment. And then the festival started, and there was this guy from New York doing a large mural painting. It was Keith Haring. I had no idea who he was. We became friends. Then I met George Benson and Herbie Hancock. It started from nothing and then one thing comes, another thing comes, another thing comes. This is how I started, which is maybe not the natural way. But I was following my intuition and taking chances and putting myself out there.

PS: And you're going after what you have a passion for.

DS: I think that’s the best way to live one's life. It was like my own private art school. I met all the guys I was totally hot about. I met Joseph Beuys and told him I wanted to do an art project with him. I got his number and he told me to ask for his assistant. But I took everything for granted, what people said to me. So I had this phone number in Berlin. And I called the guy 20 times until this fucking meeting with Beuys finally happened. And we met and made a small collaboration art magazine called “Quer.” You just have to stick to the stuff.

PS: Wow. You don't still have one of those copies around, do you?

DS: I had one and I brought it to Remo at one of our meetings. Adrian saw it and immediately took it … I hope he gave it back to Remo. Adrian has a pile of my stuff that he wanted to see, so that’s good.

PS: Yeah, of any coffee table in the world for it to be displayed, his is probably in the top 10.

DS: So then I decided my dream was to be a film director. There was a film school in Berlin that I applied to. They only took about 18 people from 600. We waited all week to see this list on the wall for the final call back meeting. And my name wasn’t there. I was like, “Shit!” And then a week later, I received a letter saying I’d been accepted. Later the director told me it was clear enough with my application and the art magazine I’d sent that I’d be accepted. I don’t say this to brag. I say this to tell you that every young person that wants to go somewhere, all they have to do is fight. You have to get out of your house and your small town and your comfort zone and all that shit.

PS: I agree. So you’ve made films?

DS: I made a feature movie and went to the film festival. It was really amazing and everything, but I was not Tarantino, you know? So it’s the last semester and Tilda Swinton is supposed to teach a seminar. I really wanted to attend it. It would be the cherry on top of the cake. Then she postponed it once, then twice. The third time, I’m on the tube and there’s a woman in front of me with a newspaper that says that Tilda’s super mentor, Derek Jarman, had passed away. It’s the very Monday morning that her seminar is set to begin. And I thought, Oh shit. She’s not going to be there. But then she was there after all and it was a fantastic week. There were only five of us students and we all fell in love with her. And she fell in love with us. I’ve known her since.

PS: I can only imagine. How’d you make the transition into books?

DS: You have to find out what you're really good at. I had long discussions with this guru, an old guy who was a very diligent, very bright guy. I was really miserable, feeling directionless. He asked me why I wasn’t continuing with filmmaking. And I couldn't give him an answer. Then he said right into my face, “Probably it’s because you’re not good enough.” The message was one-hundred percent received. It was a relief; I'm not a bad person. This guy told me the truth, and I could accept it. And when you can do this, you can figure out what you actually want to do, what you’re actually good at. I started making books. I made one with another film director. And we visited Tilda at her hotel, bringing one to her as a present. As we’re knocking, I thought to myself, If I did another book focused on people in this business, it’d have to be her. And she opens the door, looks at the book and says, “Oh, I would like to have a book like this on me.”

PS: These situations seem unreal.

DS: I spent five years on her book, which was an enormous success. It included stills from all her films and launched it in different cities. Fantastic shit.

PS: And now you’ve just released this soon-to-be iconic CDG book.

DS: I've learned to be patient; things can take you years. This book with Adrian and Remo took two years and I didn’t even know if it was going to be approved! Follow your dreams as much as you can. It's not so important which dream it is exactly. If I see a step in front of me, I try to take each chance I get. This is what I wish for everybody, in whatever situation you find yourself, start to do something with nothing. This book started with just a simple idea. You can not find anything like this on the Internet, this compilation, this narrative. It’s something we had to bring together with enormous work. And here we are. I think in our digital, splattered times sometimes you have to make something which is real. That you can sit with and focus on in silence and really take time alone with it.