ThugPop's meditation
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Beabadoobee Channels Her Inner Lizzy Grant
How are you? How is this week feeling for you?
I'm pretty anxious. If I'm being honest, just like the anticipation of the album is quite nerve wracking, but I feel very excited. I'm currently rehearsing.
How did the creative process behind this album differ from the last two?
I had been through a lot of specific things in my life that kind of slapped me back into reality. Prior to this album, I was writing about events that I had not quite understood what was actually going on in the situation, I would always constantly blame people.
And I think the things that had happened within the two year mark of writing this album definitely made me realize that at times I could be, I could be unhealthy and toxic in certain situations. So it was, it's basically me just finally accepting my own fault.
Would you call it an accountability album, in a way?
Definitely like, oh I needed to write the songs to understand what I was going through better. It's basically a growing up record.
What was it like working with Rick Rubin?
It was amazing. Honestly, he is such an amazing person, and the one thing I took from the experience was that I should feel confident in my own songwriting. And I think he made me realize that a lot.
How did he do that? Was it just like in talks with you, or just like a lot of one on one time?
It was a mixture of all that. When we first got into Shangri-La [Rubin’s studio], we had all these demos me and Jacob, Jacob Bogdan, who co-produced this record had made, and so we were kind of excited to show these demos to Rick, and he was like, I don't want to hear any of the demos. I just want to hear the songs the way you wrote them in your house. So the next day, we played him the entire record acoustically, like how I wrote it to begin with, and I had realized that all the songs sound good as it is, and I could probably release them as it is, you know, minus the production and minus all the instrumentation. And that's kind of when I realized, oh, like, I like my songwriting. This is pretty cool. And I think I needed that confidence to continue making this record with him.
When you were writing this record what art were you consuming?
I wear my references on my sleeve, almost, and it's always been Elliot [Smith] throughout my music, but I was listening to a lot of new music, like Pine Grove, and I got really into Fiona Apple. I took a lot of inspiration from them, but the most inspiration I got was from everything that I had experienced.
So going through a breakup and falling back in love again, and you know the drama around that, and you know, just the drama of everything that had happened in those two years.
I'm so honored to be even compared to Fiona Apple, but there's only one Fiona Apple, and there's only one of me.
I saw the clip of “Real Man” that you posted online. What do you think when people tell you you’re “Fiona Apple-coded”?
It's funny when people say that, because with that song, I guess Fiona was a reference… but it was actually Lana Del Rey — Lizzy Grant-era — I was definitely referencing.
I'm so honored to be even compared to Fiona Apple, but there's only one Fiona Apple, and there's only one of me. So, yeah, I can't take it… it seems disrespectful to Fiona. She's amazing. She's too amazing for my own good.
When you write songs, what is your creative process? Do the melodies come first? The lyrics?
The chords come first because I usually write on guitar, and then I find the melody and then the lyrics come quite naturally.
When you're asleep, do you ever have chord progressions come to you? Or when you go on walks? I know for a lot of writers, lyrics will come to them whenever they’re in motion.
It's definitely not chords, because that'd be like some genius shit. It's mostly melodies I hum, melodies that I really like, or even phrases that people say that kind of stick to me. I note it on my phone.
Earlier, you said you were anxious, but how do you think you'll feel when its out?
I've been using a very strange comparison describing it. Every time I talk about the leading up to the release of this record, it feels like I've been bursting for the toilet, for ages, and on Friday, when it comes out, I’ll finally reach the toilet and I can just fucking breathe. Basically.
That's a great metaphor, honestly. Do you recognize this album as more of a concept album?
In a way, you could argue any album is a concept because you're writing in a certain period of time in your life. So I guess This Is How Tomorrow Moves is a bit of a concept album, but it's just me kind of navigating my way through this newfound womanhood I'm trying to understand.
When you look back at your songs, do you ever feel a bit cringe, like, “Oh, I'm not going through that now”…
I definitely used to, but now writing this record, I kind of cut myself a lot of slack, especially with my first record, Fake It Flowers, I couldn't really listen to the songs without cringing out. But now I look back at it so fondly, and I realized I had to go through all those things to be able to write the music I make now.
What was the most difficult song to write on the record?
Probably, “Tie My Shoes”, or, “This Is How It Went.”
Why?
[For] “This is how it went,” I was writing about a situation that happened to me on that exact day. So it word for word describes the tea being spilled in that song. I was going through a lot of emotions, and it was very intense to me to write and then [for] “Tie My Shoes,” I kind of delve into my past childhood trauma to try and understand it whilst I was writing that song.
Did opening for Taylor Shift change how you're going about this album and how you go about performing now?
It'd be stupid to say if it didn't, because I saw her every night and I have so much respect for her as an artist and as a performer. Because I was on the road with her for a little bit, I watched her show every night and realized that she's obsessed with bridges.
So on this record, I really took my time when I wrote the bridges, and I have Taylor to thank for that. And just like all the music I listened to, I kind of subconsciously reference within my music. Especially songs like, “Ever Seen,” I was listening to “Begin Again,” by Swift all the time, and that kind of made an influence on that song.
With Kimchi and Miso your kitties, when are you planning on releasing new merch?
We actually have but I decided to just kind of sit on it for a little bit before this album comes out.
Are they [the cats] involved in this record at all?
Well, they're a huge inspiration to me. So [the song], “Coming Home,” is about them and their dad and my boyfriend.
Everyone is talking about you and Rob from Love Island. Do you have anything you'd want to say to him? You are not only his favorite musical artist, but you're also his big celebrity crush…
It's cool that he's mentioned my music so much and that he loves the music. I definitely want to send a vinyl out to him. I really appreciate his support and stuff. I don't know what he's like as a person or what he's like in the show, but I'm glad that he put so many people on to my music. So thanks Rob!
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“Yeah, He’s Easy on the Eyes”: Liam Benzvi
Being from New York, have you experienced the music community change?
It’s funny, I feel like I’ve been on the periphery of it. I have a lot of friends in different cliques, but I never felt like I belonged to any specific group, even though I have an incredible support system that I’m really inspired by. I always felt like the way I wrote songs and presented myself was a little different. A lot has changed since I first started music.
The project has interesting collaborations on it, like Dev Hynes, Aaron Maine, and Ren G. In that way, it’s really New York. How have the people around you influenced the project?
I’m so inspired by the people around me and their work. Most of the songs were all written first, and I wanted to find ways to give them more life with features. With Dev, I wanted to collaborate with him since we worked together in the past. I previously sang on his most recent EP, and I was basically in Blood Orange during the Harry Styles shows at MSG. I knew our voices sounded good together, so I wanted both of us on a song. It honestly took me a year to build up the courage to ask him if he wanted to be on the song, and he was totally down. The song Aaron and I produced had been a work in progress on and off for two years, and we finally finished it earlier this year. Ren is one of my closest friends and brings a kind of levity to everything she touches.
I love her. You guys have such different styles. I’m so excited to hear the song you have together.
Oh yeah totally. Ren has the best music taste of anyone I’ve ever met in my life. We immediately clicked on that first. We have such kindred music tastes. She’s like an encyclopedia of music knowledge. Dev and Aaron are too! I love people like that, total nerds in a way.
What are you listening to right now?
Oh gosh. I’m listening back to everything that I was influenced by while I was recording. I want to see if I can spot my references. I was listening to a lot of George Michael, The Dandy Warhols, and Jimmy Eat World, honestly. I love the idea of this early 2000s singer-songwriter, borderline gay guy in music. Kind of like an Enrique Iglesias type of figure.
Enrique Iglesias? Like a metrosexual guy?
Yeah you know what I mean? Like metrosexual or metropolitan, loungey, emo-dance music in conjunction with guitar music and the snottiness of britpop. I was really inspired by the attitude of Brian Jonestown Massacre and The Dandy Warhols. They were kind of doing Britpop in a Portland, Pacific Northwest way. There’s this song “Not if You Were the Last Junkie on Earth '' by the Dandy Warhols that I listened to constantly for the last year and a half. David Lachapelle did the video for it, and the band hated it even though it’s such an iconic video of these dancing girls dressed in syringes. It was so inspirational for me because it was how much humor I wanted to put in my project. I found the presentation to be so engaging.
Yeah I love how much humor is in your project. I love the line in “Dust” when you sing, “When I think of you / All I think of is your dirty room” What’s the dirtiest room you’ve ever been in?
It was probably my freshman dorm. I had a crazy roommate who would trash it. He was a dancer, so he would exercise in 5 hoodies and sweatpants with the heat on. It was like a garbage dump / sauna. I would have to interfere with his situation.
Enrique Iglesias? Like a metrosexual guy?
Was that around the time you opened for Azealia Banks? Tell me about that tour.
Yeah she was my good friend in high school and we were in musicals together at LaGuardia. My old band, Strange Names, opened for her on the Broke with Expensive Taste tour through North America. It was so fun with such a crazy rowdy audience, but some of the coolest people ever. She’s great, and we continued writing together afterward. We did something together in 2019 that we abandoned that sounded like a show tune.
When I was listening to your music, it brought me out of my body. It taps into this dreamlike world. What are you typically thinking about when you’re creating and writing about this kind of atmosphere?
This record is borderline testimonial, and I typically write first through gibberish and fit in the words afterwards. I write a lot while I’m walking and daydreaming. I tend to write about myself in the third person based on how I think people are perceiving me.
What kind of objects do you have that inspire you while you’re creating music?
I’ve only had this home studio for a few months. When I was writing this record, I demoed a lot of these songs on my friend's equipment because I was moving around a lot. It was kind of a crust punk-y in a way, but I would probably say my dog is a really grounding presence in my world.
This upcoming project is different because it includes your band also. How did you all come together?
I knew I wanted them to be in my band before I knew they played instruments. My initial thought was that they were going to be miming everything like total theater. They were meant to look cute and stylish like a TV program, (The Monkees or S Club 7). We got into the rehearsal room, and it became apparent that it would just be easier for them to learn the songs. I was really inspired by these 70s, European one-hit-wonder boy bands who were industry plants, so “Splash Band” was super in that world. We all created lore for our characters in the band.
What is it?
There’s Dalgo, who’s a semi-retired hustler; Tony Jet is a Balkan bodybuilder who just arrived from a war in the Balkan Sea; and Silas, who is obsessed with how he was abducted by aliens. We all ended up in New York and created the band to get by.
What about yourself?
I’m just Liam, but I wanted people to know that something-something wrong side of the tracks, been through something-something tormented. As today is the day I released a song, I’m typically insufferably on my phone with a grass is greener mentality. I’m usually a total terror to be around when I release music.
Watch the video for "Other Guys" feat. Blood Orange below.
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9lives' New Virtual Dreamscape
When did you start producing?
9lives— I would say the first time I ever touched software was my second year in high school. It was a class that we just had to take, a mandatory class. One of the assignments was to just make a loop of a song, I guess. And that's how it kind of got started.
Was there any artist in particular that lit a fire under you, or made you want to begin producing/making music?
At the time? I was listening to a lot of Pharrell, a lot of Tyler, The Creator too, and then back then it was also like the glory days of the SoundCloud rap scene, so X and Juice Word, Carti and Uzi and all that. So it was kind of that side as well that influenced me to start making music.
Was SoundCloud important in your musical development? How much does that platform mean to you?
Yeah, it's huge. It's like my Instagram, basically. I've been using it ever since I was a kid, and then ever since it kind of got super popular, like in 2018 or so, I've just been on it every day basically ever since. It's kind of just an underground network for a bunch of up and coming artists and people that haven't been discovered yet.
Yeah. And why do you think SoundCloud has had the staying power and relevance into the 2020s? I know a lot of people thought that SoundCloud would fall off, especially when it seemed like the heyday of trap music on the platform was kind of over, but it seems like it stuck around.
That's a good question. I think it did kind of die down for a bit, and then obviously COVID happened, so it was kind of like a resurgence of people just being able to get back into their creative flow because they're stuck inside. So I guess SoundCloud is just a platform that people kind of ran to in terms of just where to put their stuff out.
I know you and other producers have gained notoriety from “type beats” and then leveraged that into a more collaborative career. How do you feel now reflecting upon your "type beat" era?
I mean, yeah, I think I got in and out at the right time. I feel like a lot of artists now are kind of staying away from type beats, and I'm not too sure why, but I just feel like artists are starting to reach out to producers directly a lot more, which is definitely a good thing. I feel like producers get overlooked pretty often in the industry, but it [type beats] definitely helped me a lot. Honestly, I think nowadays it's a bit oversaturated. It's like a million people doing type beats.
How would you explain “Sigilcore” to someone who is unfamiliar with the subgenre if they asked you about it, and how did you find it?
I would just describe it as kind of like the darker side of hyper pop and trap, but it's very ethereal, kind of ambient and reflects a ton on the early 2000’s and what was going on at that time. In a nutshell, very video game influenced as well. A lot of the visuals and aesthetics come from the 2000’s and early 2010s era video games. I found it through this artist, Luci4. He was pretty bumping at the time I found it, which probably early 2021, maybe late 2020. He was kind of going crazy on TikTok with all the edits, and that was a big part of the community, with the editing culture and how people would just put these crazy songs in the back of the videos.
Do you feel like Discord and COVID played a role in your artistic development? And were you in Discord producer servers participating in Beat Battles, things of that nature?
Discord was huge for me in that it was really the only way I could connect with people, especially people my age. They just genuinely gravitated towards Discord, as it’s so user-friendly for sharing screens and playing games together and all that. So that was a big part of my COVID era for sure. It's really optimized and so easy to share stuff around and create communities.
A lot of what you're saying goes back to the internet, but did you ever participate in the New Zealand or Australia music scenes, and if so how do you feel like those scenes influenced your work?
In the early days? Not really, because obviously New Zealand and Australia are such small communities, and then the music community is even smaller, so it's kind of hard to get your name around there. But I find myself now finding joy in finding artists that are in New Zealand and just helping them with their music.
I'm sure a lot of your collaborations came about online. What's your preferred, or at least the most effective method of collaboration?
The tried and true method is obviously being in the room with the person, you can just provide real time feedback. You can feed off their energy and their vibes. But I feel like Discord is honestly the best alternative way, just because of the screen share feature, you're kind of doing what you would do in a room, but just online virtually.
What do you think the legacy of SoundCloud in the 2010’s will be? When we look back in 10, 20 years…
I think it's legendary, honestly, the amount of artists that have come out of SoundCloud and that we see as legends or basically almost like landmarks really in the community has been undeniable. SoundCloud definitely changed even the industry side of music as a whole. Even now I'm seeing a lot of mainstream artists almost go back into the underground and find new artists and find new styles and sounds. So I think it's something that will always be around for sure.
Can you point out a couple of important touch points in the development of SoundCloud production? I know recently Plug has changed a lot of stuff, as has Jersey Club and Drain Gang.
Yeah, I feel like all those artists you mentioned, they influenced me as a whole. Obviously the plug sound was everything back in 2016 to 2018, and then even the Drain Gang sound- and that whole collective inspired me, even fashion wise. I still listen to all of them, but I feel like for me and my personal style, it's just a bunch of sounds that I've been influenced by and I’ve kind of just put it all into one.
How do you feel like you represent yourself when it comes to a consistent vision with your overall artistic aesthetic in videos, fashion, and cover art?
Well, definitely I feel that a lot of my stuff is very on the darker side, but I like to keep the brand almost very ambiguous and mysterious. I feel like that's what keeps people interested and draws people in because they'll want to learn more about you and see what's going on. I guess visually it’s a lot of darker, mysterious sometimes angelic-ish themes.
The amount of artists that have come out of SoundCloud and that we see as legends or basically almost like landmarks really in the community has been undeniable. SoundCloud definitely changed even the industry side of music as a whole. Even now I'm seeing a lot of mainstream artists almost go back into the underground and find new artists, styles and sounds.
And how do you feel like you express yourself through your fashion? Do you feel like it's a very vital form of self-expression for you?
It's definitely a big part of my life, and obviously self-expression is important, what I wear, it's very form-fitting, very sleek and clean. It's kind of like my production. My production's very simple really, but very clean sounding and all that. But I think, yeah, my fashion sense kind of just comes from whatever I draw inspiration from recently, like Playboi Carti’s style, or Ecco2k who is a fashion icon.
You’ve recently blown up in popularity, especially on streaming. How do you personally reconcile artistic growth and experimentation with financial stability and pop music success? Do you feel pressured to concede on your sound to achieve more pop music success?
I always think there's a way to blend sounds and kind of stay true, but I guess my philosophy is just to stay true to what you enjoy. Obviously if you're not enjoying making it, then it's not going to be true to yourself. I always just find myself making stuff that I'm listening to at the time and enjoying art that brings me nostalgia and all that. So I guess just making stuff that I genuinely, really enjoy making.
So do you feel like everything's happened super organically?
I mean, two years ago I was basically making what I'm making now, but in my bedroom. So everything's just given me a new platform and just pushed me internationally and given me a lot more opportunities that I otherwise wouldn't have been able to have.
Okay. I've heard you say that you consider yourself a versatile producer. Would you ever consider completely switching sub genres or even genres?
Good question. I was always thinking it's probably not a good idea to switch crazy, but obviously the sound's going to develop and it's going to evolve over time. But there's always a world where you can do just production with artists, and it doesn't have to be your name painted all over it. It can just be helping in the room or just sitting in the room and being like, oh yeah, that sounds cool. You can try add this or, but yeah, a lot of the sessions I've had out here have been in a different kind of musical land, and I've making a lot of alt music, a lot of pop style songs I guess.
Would you ever do what Uzi did on Pink Tape, explore more rock music sounds?
Yeah, I'm definitely open to it. I mean, I love rock music. I definitely love the UK rock scene, it has some of my favorite music, like Joy Division and all that. Recently, Iv'e been bumping a lot of my Bloody Valentine, I love them. Charlie XCX, she's great. Dean Blunt too, and Snow Strippers are a really cool group.
What producers do you feel like don't get their flowers enough?
I feel like P'ierre Bourne definitely doesn't get enough flowers. He's very overlooked in a way. I guess he's basically influenced everyone that's in my kind of bracket indirectly or directly, but I'd say he's definitely a producer that deserves a lot more flowers. I feel like people even overlook Tyler, The Creator as a producer, I feel like a lot of people don't even know he produces in the first place. But he is an amazing producer, a great composer,
Where did the name 9livescome from?
Yeah, so it's from a game. It's Game called Model Warfare 2 in the Call of Duty series. There were these customizable calling cards that you could use. I was just a calling card called Nine Lives that I used a lot as a kid, and I never really changed it.
It was basically your gamer tag.
My gamer tag was actually SmoothCriminal54 back in the day.
Do you still have time to play video games?
Yeah, I love to. I mean, it's one of my main sources of inspiration and it's kind like therapeutic to me. I've been playing them since I was a kid.
What about video games inspires you in your music?
I mean, the soundtracks. My biggest inspirations soundtrack wise are Silent Hill and Final Fantasy and all the kind of more fantasy style games. Also, a lot of visuals from video games I like to take and flip into my visuals that I use in videos and visualizers.
Do you think regionalism is still alive in rap music?
I don't think so, no. I feel like because of the internet age, people don't even care where you're from at this point. I mean, take me for example. I feel like a lot of people in the US don't even know New Zealand exists, but people still enjoy my music. It obviously is [still alive] to some degree, but I feel like it's a lot looser now. People are welcoming the UK scene and the European scenes and all that.
Would you ever make a boom-bap song, like a nineties golden age rap song? Alchemist, Madlib, J Dilla type thing?
II actually do experiment with boom-bap in my spare time. I mean, that's one of my favorite genres. It's just got so much soul and it's just got the vibe to it. But yeah, I've never really thought about properly making one with vocals and stuff on it, but I always make instrumentals that are boom bap inspired and all that.
Watch the visualizer for "I DID IT" ft. Kanii & Anycia below.
