Head to the Mountain Top with Moses Sumney

EL COUSTEAU wears shirt, jacket and coat by WILLY CHAVARRIA.

With more than half a decade in the game, the 25-year-old’s fingerprints have landed far beyond the DMV’s music scene, even defying mediums and industries. Cousteau’s fashion portfolio grew from walking NYFW with Telfar to being styled in Wales Bonner and doing shoots with A$AP Rocky for AWGE and Puma, but when peeling back the layers on his come-up, the versatility of his resumé should come as no surprise. Growing up, his mother put him in a performing arts middle school where he was introduced to acting, which offered him an outlet to show his personality on stage and really grow into his own, “I feel like that's probably why I'm able to just go up there and just be free and just do whatever I'm thinking in my brain.” The juxtaposition of splitting time between growing up on the corner house of Staple Street and exploring his interests in the arts through his studies offered Cousteau a one-of-a-kind perspective on how he views the world and where he fits within it.

Perched atop two red stools on the corner of Orchard and Canal Street, Cousteau and I spent an afternoon getting to the bottom of his slow-burn rise from local legend to becoming your favorite rapper’s favorite rapper with an assist from some sheets, funnel, and an iced beverage that can’t be found on le gaz’s menu. Although his recent co-signs range from The Alchemist to Tyler, The Creator, Cousteau is headstrong on his forthcoming album making a bold statement that although he appreciates all the love, he can do it himself. Or, in his words, 'merci, non merci.'

EL COUSTEAU wears jacket, pants, coat and shoes by BURBERRY, sunglasses by FENDI, jewelry is TALENT’S OWN.

Jack Kissane – What made you realize that this was your calling in life?

El Cousteau – Yeah, I feel like it was inevitable. If I didn't make music, I would still love it. But I feel like I was blessed to get a life where I was able to just go through certain things and experiences, and I had this moment where I realized that I can really talk about this shit, and people could resonate with what I'm saying I’ve been through. The complexities of life be so crazy sometimes, like it gets to the point where the world be needing a motherfucker with a perspective that just doesn’t have no bullshit. I ain't about to give you no gimmick, none of that shit. I'm going to just talk to you about life. I'm going to tell you my flaws and all that shit. The world appreciates that shit too. That same honesty and empathy in my music helped me grow too.

One of the coolest things to me about your music is that I was introduced to it the most organic way possible, live in concert at MIKE’s Ipari Park tour back in 2023…

That's when I met him! It’s funny; everybody thinks I’ve known MIKE and everybody for so long, bro. I literally met them last year through mutuals. Basically, Sideshow is the link factor for all of us meeting. Haile [Sideshow] had got hip to me, and he's just like a loving soul, like bro is one of the most purest people – same thing with the rest of them like MIKE, Niontay, and that whole team are just some of the purest people you would ever meet.

But this n*gga Haile just fucked with my music, and he’s from back home too, so we already had mutual friends. I'm pretty sure that's how he saw my shit, and he just reached out to me one day telling me, "bro, your shit is hard." From there, we just got to talking and they had a show coming up in Baltimore, and he was like, "bro, if you up to it, I want to bring you out for a song." I'm like, 'hell yeah!' I went there that day, and we haven't stopped hanging out since on some crazy shit. All of them are actually my really good friends. If I didn't make music and they didn't make music. We'd still really be friends. No funny shit.

That’s so crazy because I was at the Brooklyn show of that same tour, and I just remember being in the crowd during Sideshow’s set when he introduced you and your track "Nitro.” I just remember a collective 'holy shit' from everyone around me as you ran onto the stage and the track’s heavy metal guitar loop cut in.

[laughs] And then I'm just going crazy on stage. Just just rapping hard as shit over top of it!

I've never seen a crowd's posture shift like it did in that moment. Collectively pulling out their Shazam apps to get in tune and all of that. From the outside looking in, that performance seems like a career-shifting moment. Can you recall the feeling you had when performing that night on a stage like that?

That’s crazy to hear bro! But, I can't hold you. I can't super recall the night. In the moment, I just know what's going on in my brain. Basically, I be rapping like that, just real adamant because growing up, I just always felt like I got a point to prove. Not even on some like, I'm trying to impress nobody or nothing, but I really come from some shit to the point where I feel like I'm beating the odds if that makes sense. Not even to be cliché. My mother and grandmother had to overcome so much shit to even put me in position. I feel like I even had to go through certain shit to get myself here.

With this music shit, I really feel in my heart and soul that nothing is going to stop me. That's why I think my music feels so high adrenaline because I'm really on some shit like bro, nothing will stop me, and I'm still young as shit. I'm 25, so I got all this energy, and I got all these radical thoughts too. So all that shit is going on in my brain at once, and that's why it comes out that way.

EL COUSTEAU wears jacket, shirt and shorts by MARINE SERRE, sunglasses by MIANSAI, tie is STYLIST’S OWN, jewelry is TALENT’S OWN.

You have some of the most quotable lyrics out in rap right now. Do you know that you're feeding people the best Instagram captions out right now? Like my favorite bar might be, "Ralph Lauren, button down. My mother thinks I'm cross-dressing." Is that something you think about, or are you just saying what you are feeling?

I'm not going to sit right here and lie to you. I definitely always try to put my best foot forward with what I'm writing. But I just be hoping people feel how I feel about it because music is subjective. Of course, I'm going say I feel like I'm the best at what I'm doing, but that doesn’t really matter because what matters is whose listening to it and if it relates to them. My biggest thing is I want to make the shit I’m saying relatable to somebody who is living like how I'm living. If I'm doing that, I’m happy.

It’s actually a fucking crazy blessing when you think about it to be a little boy from the fucking northeast. I really grew up in the corner house, I am like the day-to-day kid from this urban place. And for me to put my thoughts together, and to push for some shit like this, and it's actually happening is cool. I just got such a unique point of view on how I see the world and I want to speak on it. What you hear is just my perspective and how I'm able to put it into words and translate it to everybody else. Right now, I'm not at where I know I’m going to be at, but the fact that it's promising, people are resonating with it, and it's finally showing is crazy to me.

You mentioned earlier you play guitar, right?

Honestly, I'm not the best at guitar yet, but I still remember how to play melody and all that. I actually made three or four songs on the guitar recently. I really want to get how Mk.gee is at that shit bro. He's fucking crazy with that guitar.

That's the shit that I want to show in this new project. I feel like a lot of people don't know that side of me just because my music is so new to people, but I really like that kind of music, and I make it too. I just haven't had a chance to put it out because my first thoughts of music is what I've been putting out up until this point. But I'm definitely building up my own musical repertoire as we speak.

How'd you get the name Cousteau? Is that you being a history nerd and paying respects to Jacques Cousteau or how’d that come about?

So basically it is like an analogy. My first rap name was the nickname I grew up with. It got to a point where I outgrew it and wanted to give myself a name that I really resonated with. At the time, I was moving around and I was just discovering new things in the world, from human anatomy to a new fucking food spot down the street. I was in the house one day, and I stumbled across Jacques Cousteau and all this French Riviera shit. Beyond him being a marine biologist, we're doing similar things in life. Of course, I'm making music so I feel like that's a cool alter-ego type name to have. So I changed it to that and it just made so much sense to me. It's not just me with the Cousteau name, though. We got Manny, my other homie Tay, Manny's brother Ron, there are more folks in this shit too, like my cousins. So there are definitely more Cousteaus. It's a whole group. It's a whole entity or collective.

Did you grow up performing, or were you ever in talent shows as a kid? Because it comes off so naturally when you’re on stage.

All right, so to be honest with you, my mom put me in a performing arts middle school. I was in it from fifth through eighth grade. From there, she put me into a public charter school that had journalism and media arts. So I was still in movies and shit, like we were really putting together our own movies, it was cool. So yeah, I definitely semi-acted growing up and was into theater. So I feel like that's probably why I'm able to just go up there and just be free and just do whatever I'm thinking in my brain.

That makes a lot of sense and probably led you down that path of being creative, especially with the music.

Facts! In sixth grade, I had to remember these monologues bro. We had six classes in a day, and your last class was a creative one. We had the choice to pick theater or music, and I was in a theater class. I did get kicked out of the fucking theater class, though, because I used to be a little asshole. [laughs] But, while I was in there, there was this one monologue that I resonated with, and I really spanked the presentation. There was a prize, and I won that shit. That was so important to me, like I was young as shit bro.

EL COUSTEAU wears shirt, shorts, jacket and coat by WILLY CHAVARRIA, shoes by SEBAGO.

Did you know when you dropped Dirty Harry that it was going to get things moving for you? And was there something that you did differently in the recording or rollout for it versus prior work?

I remember when we were uploading the project, it was me and Coca Cousteau in twelveAM's basement because he and Coca Cousteau made almost all the beats for the project. We were talking about this shit and my biggest thing in life, is to not have expectations, but just diligently work and keep pushing no matter what. And through time, something special will come just because that's what you’re doing. At the time, I felt it was special because we'd been recording so much because of this regimen I was in, where I was always recording. If I din’t have an itinerary, I’d record all seven days of the week. When making that project I was already a year and a half deep into that regimen, but I just hadn't put any music out. It's crazy because I knew in that moment that in a year from that day of putting that project out we wouldn't be in the same position because of what I was about to drop. And literally bro, we started the fucking Burning Desire tour exactly a year later, down to the day from dropping Dirty Harry! If you look at the dates on Apple Music it says April 17th, 2023. We started the tour on April 17th, 2024 in Philly.

The universe does crazy things bro when you actually commit to something and stick with it. You also got to be as morally correct as you can be. Of course, we all got things we got to work on, but really working at that shit is so important because I create art, but the only way my art can really shine and be as beautiful as I want it to be is to work on who I am on the inside. We got to acknowledge our flaws because that's what's making us human, and that's the shit that's going to help us be better. Realizing what we aren't good at is so crucial. It was something that I had to realize because my rollout was different from anything I had done before. I was a little more optimistic and open to things outside what I was used to. I wasn't hindering myself from new opportunities and I feel like that allowed certain things to just really happen for me.

I don't know if you've been told this, but your music and who you are as an artist have this unique way of bridging these vastly different sounds and scenes together. Witnessing this regional DMV sound find its way next to this introspective rap renaissance is so exciting, and it's bringing a whole new audience into the fold. Like anecdotally, you got my DMV homies listening to MIKE and Earl Sweatshirt, like I never thought I'd see the day. Do you know that your art is doing that?

I definitely want to do that bro. But at the end of the day I just want it to be me. This is me. What you hear is me. I feel like I do have the blessing of that. If that's one of the things that comes with it, I'm definitely grateful. But above all, I just want the shit to be me. That's all.

Who or what is the inspiration for your style?

My cousin was wearing Gore-Tex and bro, I'm going to stand on this shit... We was literally the first motherfuckers to wear New Balance in DC. So my cousin always had a nice pair of running shoes. But more than that, he was really putting shit together. He was styling a Gore-Tex jacket with wax denim. Everything my cousin was wearing was always well-fitted too. Or if it was baggy, it had the proportions. He was different with the clothes shit.

And then my mother, she just really knows how to put clothes together, and she doesn't need a brand or nothing, she'll just make some fly shit. I learned a lot of my style from her, but I just put my own spin on this shit. Because, bro, literally my mom, she never dressed me growing up. She used to buy clothes for me and let me put together what I wanted to wear. Also, my mom and I literally wear the same shoe size, and I'm a little bit taller than my mother, but her jackets and shit fit me for a while. So I was able to just tap into her closet and shit. That's really where my personal style came from. I look at clothes, and to me, they aren't specified for a certain person. Anybody can wear anything for sure. It's just honestly, does it look good? That's all that matters. Fuck all the extra labeling shit. Me, personally, I be on some shit where if the shit looks cool, I'm wearing it.

Do you have a core memory of you putting that shit on for the first time and do you remember what you were wearing? And did that fit include the infamous DC Foamposites?

[Laughs] Bro! I had the red foams — these icy ass jawns, the Gym Greens, I randomly got the little camouflage jawns, and the Phoenix Suns ones too. The Phoenix Suns ones were icy ass shit. If you got a pair of Foamposites in DC at that time, that shit was like wearing a medal of honor. Like you’d be one of the fliest motherfuckers out there, bro!

EL COUSTEAU wears jacket, sweater and pants by KENZO, belt by BRIGADE, glasses by DIOR, jewlery is TALENT’S OWN.

More recently, you've modeled for fashion houses Telfar and Wales Bonner. How'd you get your foot into modeling?

I came up here with one of my homies when I was 16 to try and model for VFILES. It was only to take digitals to try to get casted, and I didn’t. But I remember in that moment I knew I was going to find my way into this shit somehow. I'm not going to do it on other people's time. Because the one thing I’ve realized about this industry is people will make you feel like there's not another way without having to commit to somebody else's plan and be under their control. I was like, ‘fuck no, this shit is me. I am the intellectual property.’

For me, I am going to put clothes on, I'm going to look nice, and that's what that shit is going to be. And the shit for me, in the end, it's going to come, people are going to realize it. But the people that I've done shit with already, it is been super love, and I super appreciate that shit. That’s how I feel; things are going to come to me when they’re meant to.

Even more recently, I saw that you did a shoot with A$AP Rocky's AWGE collection for Puma. How'd that connection with Rocky come about?

That shit was super fucking random. Basically, one day, I opened my phone, and A$AP Lou had DM'd me, letting me know they wanted to meet me. I wound up linking them in New York and we have been tapped in since. I went to Rolling Loud in Miami with Rocky last summer. That shit was fucking crazy. Also, the first day we met. That was a funny ass day. We were smoking just cooling, and then we were going back and forth about who started wearing Nike Boots first between Harlem and DC. That shit was funny. We were going back and forth about that for like an hour. Then we went back and started recording again.

EL COUSTEAU wears jacket, top and pants by AMI, necklace is TALENT’S OWN.

Your collaborations within the last year have been super prolific with you working with MIKE, Earl Sweatshirt, and Niontay on "Real hiphop," or that track off Sideshow's tape. What is it like sharing the mic and stages with such legendary artists and what have you learned working amongst them?

Bro, it is actually such a funny ass thing because we be talking about this all the time. It is such a great environment because it's not on some toxic competitiveness. I know I have to say some shit because I know whoever is next to me is writing some crazy ass shit right now. When we make music together, we are always pushing each other, all of us bro, like Sideshow, Niontay, & MIKE. We are just pushing ourselves to do really cool shit. It's not even like we are putting pressure on each other or nothing like that. It's more like if somebody needs an ear or an opinion or something, someone's always there. It's just super healthy like a real breath of fresh air. Also, it's so cool to share a bond with somebody already just on some human shit, but for that same person to be passionate about doing the same thing you're into. It be really motivating.

What can fans expect from this project?

My new project is going to be called Merci, Non Merci. Translated it means, thanks, but no thanks. It is going to be about that sentence fragment. I'm at a point in my life where I feel like so many things have come to me — good and bad — and I’m like, ‘actually thank you, but no thank you.’ At the end of the day, you don't have to let anything ever determine your output. All you can do is control really how you feel and what you do or push out to the world. It's just like a mannerism thing. I could be like, ‘no, fuck you,’ but I don't want that. I’m really just doing my own thing, and that's what this is really about for me. I'm at the point where it's like I'm so self-sufficient I can really get it done myself. I appreciate the offer to help, but I know what I’m doing.

The project is definitely going to be a lot of adrenaline feeling music, but it's going be very speakeasy too. I'm just opening up my brain to the world. I feel like people are going to finally be like, "oh, this is Cousteau!" There are a lot of textures to it. I really love this project.